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  1. #1

    [O/C]Free Water Cooling...Or Marketing Gimmick? Or Both?

    Wednesday, the Overclockers.com news email received an interesting press release. The title is simple enough but is quite the claim: "iBUYPOWER Partners with Asetek to Develop the First and Only Liquid Cooling Solution for the Level 10 Tower". While I'm unable to prove it false with a link (quick Google search yields a whole lot of results, but the vast majority of them are republishing info from this release), I would guess someone somewhere has installed a liquid cooling solution in a Thermaltake Level 10 case since they've been out. I just couldn't find any.

    Not that I'd blame people for n... Return to Article

  2. #2
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    At least they could have used a clean new H50 unit. Check the dust on the fan and tubing!

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    Hahaha, good point.

    Just to be 100% clear - the unit used in this thing is NOT an H50. The H50 is designed to Corsair's specs. How it differs from the LCLC in things other than appearance is I'm sure proprietary, but Corsair should not be associated with this scheme.

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    Interesting take on this. Personally, I love that Thermaltake Level 10 case. LOVE IT. But for my needs, and most enthusiasts here at the site as you mentioned, its just not functional.

    Seemed like a split opinion on it from these threads with a bit more weight leaning on the "Nay" side: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...rmaltake+Level
    http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...rmaltake+Level
    http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...rmaltake+Level

    Common denominator - Looks are pleasing to some, not others. Cooling concerns. Price.

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    That is pretty sad, to be honest.
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    Folding for Team 32! Ben333's Avatar
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    Seems the same as bundling a heatsink with a case... but I don't exactly see the problem here. This small kit does come pre installed, their job is to sell the item. The consumer's job is to research.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben333 View Post
    Seems the same as bundling a heatsink with a case... but I don't exactly see the problem here. This small kit does come pre installed, their job is to sell the item. The consumer's job is to research.
    The item isn't the problem. They claimed they designed a totally custom system (and I quote):

    The Level 10 case dimensions do not accommodate standard liquid cooling systems, and required us to design a cooling system that fits its exact dimensions
    They didn't design anything, they paid a company for a pre-existing product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarthDog View Post
    Interesting take on this. Personally, I love that Thermaltake Level 10 case. LOVE IT. But for my needs, and most enthusiasts here at the site as you mentioned, its just not functional.

    Seemed like a split opinion on it from these threads with a bit more weight leaning on the "Nay" side: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...rmaltake+Level
    http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...rmaltake+Level
    http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...rmaltake+Level

    Common denominator - Looks are pleasing to some, not others. Cooling concerns. Price.
    Cooling concerns & price are the two main reasons I hate it. If it cost, oh, $150-$200 (like some of the posts you linked to said), it would be just another case that I'm not particularly fond of. There are a lot of those and to each their own.

    EDIT - FWIW, I attempted to find a Level 10 build both here and XS. Didn't dig extremely deep, but from a cursory search, I could not find one, just a few threads talking about it when it came out like the ones you linked to. That's why I commented "Let’s face it, very (very) few people in the computer enthusiast demographic even want one of these things."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben333 View Post
    Seems the same as bundling a heatsink with a case... but I don't exactly see the problem here. This small kit does come pre installed, their job is to sell the item. The consumer's job is to research.
    I have no problems with what they are doing. The problem is how they presented it.

    To assuage anyone who doesn't like that I don't like the case, I understand. There will be differing opinions on looks and that's fine by me. If we all liked the same things, building computers would be much more boring. Even if cases aren't to my taste, I thoroughly enjoy watching their build logs and looking at the photos.

    The long and short of it is, well, everybody knows the saying "opinions are like..." I just happen to have been asked to place mine on a web site, hopefully in a slightly interesting/entertaining manner.

    EDIT - Thideras got in there while I was typing and hit the nail on the head. Thanks Thiddy!
    Last edited by hokiealumnus; 02-12-10 at 02:28 PM.

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    Folding for Team 32! Ben333's Avatar
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    Still though, I've seen way worse statements. Plus, this is from Thermal Take... and that kit certainly doesn't look like anything THEY have offered before. It is what it is... maybe I just don't see the extent to which wrong is being done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben333 View Post
    Still though, I've seen way worse statements.
    That still doesn't justify it. They flat out lied about the "improvements" to the case to improve sales. It is silly to try and say "that isn't what they meant" or "there is worse out there". That has no impact on their words; they were not truthful. I'm sure they didn't just throw it out there at a press conference, but instead worded it very carefully to fool any unaware buyer.

    Call me paranoid, but I take anything a company says very literally as they usually take a lot of time to see how it could be interpreted. Why? Because my company does it.
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    Folding for Team 32! Ben333's Avatar
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    Lets say I'm just an inexperienced user with a lot of dough, what's the difference between "We had to design a special cooler, just to fit this new case" and "Now included with this case, is an excellent watercooling kit to get the most out of your overclock". Now, the first one is a lie. The second one is based on opinion, but is still desceptive. This discussion wouldn't be though if they had simple used the second example I have... like companies do most of the time?

    Am I missing something or do you see where I'm coming from?

  12. #12
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    I see where you're coming from, but couldn't disagree more. The difference between saying both of the things you said and saying "Come buy this case and you'll get free water cooling!" is that the examples you gave are a lie & a half-truth and the one I said is not.

    The impact is no less...it's free water cooling for pete's sake (if you purchase an $850 case). They shouldn't outright lie just to make it sound better than an already good offer.

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    Well, aside from the main points here, I don't think the person buying this case would care that much about a free $60 - $70 product (like the Corsair kit) but I guess that making the kit look better than it is, and as unique as the case, and the only option for the case is wrong. Now... other than the lie, that add on seems like a nice incentive for someone looking to buy the case. lol

  14. #14
    Personally I don't feel that simply using an H50 is "watercooling" The time, energy, consideration and skill that goes into a real watercooling rig is way harder than simply installing a pre-fab CPU cooler and a 120mmm fan. It's almost insulting to call the H50 a WC unit at all. It's a CPU cooler period

  15. #15
    Folding for Team 32! Ben333's Avatar
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    Ehh... Actually, water cooling is simply the usage of water as a coolant to carry heat away from something and then dissipate it. Breaking it down to time and effort in the building of it doesn't make sense at all. Is your car not watercooled because a factory built it??

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    Anything from Asetek has to be free cause no one would actually buy it....
    It will be hard to find a Level 10 build as the cost of the case is ridiculous but I see no reason why you cant mount a rad internally or a pump that 140mm fan in the front would be ideal for a rad, I think the case is interesting and I would love a shot at doing a build with it but I cant see my spending 700USD for that.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben333 View Post
    Ehh... Actually, water cooling is simply the usage of water as a coolant to carry heat away from something and then dissipate it. Breaking it down to time and effort in the building of it doesn't make sense at all. Is your car not watercooled because a factory built it??
    lol, Yes I am fully aware of the definition of water cooling and Yes the car is watercooled as well. Is it in the same family, fine, but certainly not even in the same league. The performance of the thing will show you that. Figure the comparison between a 5 star restaurant and McDonalds do you consider them the same because they both serve food?

  18. #18
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    H50's and Asetek solutions are water cooling, as it meets the definition. No, they aren't as good as a custom loop (see this review of the H50), but they're not meant to be and don't cost nearly as much.

    Please keep the "is this water cooling?" argument out of here. It got way out of control in the original thread about the H50, people got out of hand and punishments / admonishments were given out by the administration. Let's try to avoid that one in this thread and keep to what it's about ... lambasting ridiculous marketing lies!

    p.s. - Grnfinger, the H50 is built by Asetek and Corsair has sold tens of thousands of these units. I'd say that's more than nobody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiealumnus View Post

    p.s. - Grnfinger, the H50 is built by Asetek and Corsair has sold tens of thousands of these units. I'd say that's more than nobody.
    I know who built it and who is marketing it, Thats why Asetek had to slap a Corsair sticker on there so ppl would buy it.. Seems ther own branding of "LCLC" was not enough to sway the consumer or maybe its there reputation ...who knows.
    The point I was trying to make was Asetek's name, they are the bottom barrel in the WC game but ppl still buy it, kinda like thermaltake you just avoid it like the plague.

  20. #20
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    This "Free water cooling" solution looks to me like it's something that iBUYPOWER dreamed up to try to move a bunch of those overpriced TT chassis that they can't sell for $850 a pop to me. I've sure they got a good price on their H5O clone they decided to throw in with the case. I think the only engineering they might have done would be to decide on what fan to mount to the rad and the length screws to do so.

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