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Most up to date hardware, for Windows 98se?

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Wait, what? Make it work with >512MB as in use >512MB? I thought the patches just allowed you to have as much RAM as you want physically installed (for use by Windows XP in a dual boot) but only first 512 was used by 98/Me?

VIA doesn't have a PCI lock. nForce2 does so why no nForce2? Many nForce2 mobos have killer onboard audio too, they don't make onboard audio as good but most nForce2 mobos had great onboard audio.

I'll have to agree on that my nForce2 board sound was fanastic I found it much better than my nForce4 onboard sound jesus I still remember the board the nForce2 was on AOPEN AK79D-400 Max I suppose never forget your 1st build lol.
 
The biggest ones are Warcraft, Warcraft - Tides of Darkness, Magic the Gathering and something else I can't remember right off hand.... I've a few others that my boys are wanting to play that are like Warcraft, pretty much DOS required.
 
Oh, even a first-gen Pentium will run those games fine... you don't even need 3D acceleration or anything.

In that case, I'd recommend just scouting out an old PII/PIII prebuilt from a thrift store or Craigslist or somewhere. Dell Optiplex GX1/GX110 systems are plentiful and cheap, as are Compaq Deskpros, and they'd work a treat for the purpose.
 
True, most of the games could be played rather easily on much older systems. But, I would like to be able do other things as well... and if I go with that much of an older system, then most of the 'other' things wouldn't really be workable.
 
My idea windows 98 box would be one of the last OEM boxes sold with windows 98 on it. Or any overclocker's build from the windows 98 days. You could build some crazy powerful box with over 512 MB of RAM and a pentium 4 and all that jazz, but why? The stuff that you'd run on something with those specs should run on an XP machine fine... I say use the 98 box for the 98 stuff, or simply emulate 98 in a virtual PC.
 
Why do you feel the need to use it for other things, though?

Remember, you're looking at about a 15 year span of software here. While it's possible to build a system that will work with such a wide range, what you're going to end up doing is going through a lot of trouble to get a system that doesn't work particularly well for anything. As I said before, a Tualatin PIII or Socket A Athlon is going to be the best middle-ground, but even that isn't going to be ideal for both purposes.

Trust me, I've been through all this already. So have a lot of other people. That's why old hardware is in such demand on eBay.... when a VM isn't a reasonable option (and, BTW, I'm still not clear why it wouldn't be in your case), then a dedicated retro-gaming system is the way to go. If space is a concern, get a small computer and put it on a KVM switch.
 
Looking back at the requirements for Starcraft released in 1998...

Pentium 90MHz
16MB of Ram
SVGA video card

Another example is the expansion pack for Diablo II released in 2001, at this point WindowsXP is out, and anything from this period or later should run on XP. Diablo II expansion requirements:

Pentium 233MHz
32MB ram

This sort of echos of what others have said -- why the heck would you want 512MB of RAM, 128MB or even 64MB would probably be sufficient. Any machine you can still find that is capable of installing and running Windows 98 is probably going to suit your needs.

In fact for some games it might be bad to have hardware that is too new. I remember my PIII 866, which was the last computer I had prior to Win XP -- I had to run programs to purposefully eat up CPU cycles, because some games wouldn't work otherwise. Either that or the games would run so fast they were unplayable.
 
Oh, even a first-gen Pentium will run those games fine... you don't even need 3D acceleration or anything.

In that case, I'd recommend just scouting out an old PII/PIII prebuilt from a thrift store or Craigslist or somewhere. Dell Optiplex GX1/GX110 systems are plentiful and cheap, as are Compaq Deskpros, and they'd work a treat for the purpose.

Yup. I have an Optiplex GX1. P2-400, 224MB RAM, ~6.4GB HD, Soundblaster 1.0 with CMS chips, etc.. I haven't put my Voodoo2 (SLI) cards in there yet, but some day soon, just gotta make sure the mobo/PSU caps aren't bad first :bday:

It works fine for playing anything up to HOMM4, which is probably the most recent game I played on it. M&M6/7 and MW3 also work perfectly on it.

edit: Nevermind HOMM4 being the latest, I played Master of Orion 3 (came out the next year) on it, that's why I upgraded the RAM from 96MB to 224MB - game required 128MB.
 
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just gotta make sure the mobo/PSU caps aren't bad first

None of the beige Dells had bad capacitors in 'em, unless they were somehow damaged by something else. Those old machines are pretty much indestructible...
 
None of the beige Dells had bad capacitors in 'em, unless they were somehow damaged by something else. Those old machines are pretty much indestructible...

I might be overly paranoid in that regard. I remember a Tandy 1000 site years ago that suggested checked the caps before powering on a machine that hadn't been used in many years. IIRC they said you could break other stuff if you powered on a machine with bad components. Granted, they were talking about 20+ year old computers..
 
Weak power supply may take out your other stuff if it needs more power than it can provide.
 
Can't believe this thread is this old... But seems like people on here don't get flamed for posting in the oldies, and seeing as I was in this one earlier I have a useful reply. Older dells are awesome for running older OSes (and in general) because of their service tags. I was given a Dell from between 99 and 02, go to their site, punch in the number and BAM - drivers for every OS of the time period. Try doing that with an IBM or compaq... IMO dells also have a lower death rate.

You might even get lucky and find old 98 / NT drivers for machines built after XP was out because some people were weary of XP or needed something older when it was first released.
 
from a MSKB article on this very issue:

Code:
This article was previously published under Q253912 
If this article does not describe your hardware-related issue, please
see the following Microsoft Web site to view more articles about
hardware:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/windows/topics/hardware/hwddresctr.asp
SYMPTOMS
If a computer that is running any of the versions of Windows that are
listed above contains more than 512 megabytes (for example, 768
megabytes) of physical memory (RAM), you may experience one or more of
the following symptoms:
You may be unable to open an MS-DOS session (or command prompt) while
Windows is running. Attempts to do so may generate the following error
message:
There is not enough memory available to run this program.
Quit one or more programs, and then try again.
The computer may stop responding (hang) while Windows is starting, or
halt and display the following error message:

Insufficient memory to initialize windows. Quit one or more
memory-resident programs or remove unnecessary utilities from your
Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files, and restart your computer.
CAUSE
The Windows 32-bit protected-mode cache driver (Vcache) determines the
maximum cache size based on the amount of RAM that is present when
Windows starts. Vcache then reserves enough memory addresses to permit
it to access a cache of the maximum size so that it can increase the
cache to that size if needed. These addresses are allocated in a range
of virtual addresses from 0xC0000000 through 0xFFFFFFFF (3 to 4
gigabytes) known as the system arena.

On computers with large amounts of RAM, the maximum cache size can be
large enough that Vcache consumes all of the addresses in the system
arena, leaving no virtual memory addresses available for other
functions such as opening an MS-DOS prompt (creating a new virtual
machine).
WORKAROUND
To work around this problem, use one of the following methods: 
Use the MaxFileCache setting in the System.ini file to reduce the
maximum amount of memory that Vcache uses to 512 megabytes (524,288
KB) or less. For additional information about how to use the
MaxFileCache setting, click the article number below to view the
article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
108079 32-Bit File Access Maximum Cache Size 

Use the System Configuration utility to limit the amount of memory
that Windows uses to 512 megabytes (MB) or less.For additional
information about how to use the System Configuration utility, click
the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft
Knowledge Base:
181966 System Configuration Utility Advanced Troubleshooting Settings 

Reduce the amount of memory that is installed in your computer to 512 MB or less.
STATUS
Microsoft has confirmed that this is a problem in the Microsoft
products that are listed at the beginning of this article.
MORE INFORMATION
Vcache is limited internally to a maximum cache size of 800 MB.

This problem may occur more readily with Advanced Graphics Port (AGP)
video adapters because the AGP aperture is also mapped to addresses in
the system arena. For example, if Vcache is using a maximum cache size
of 800 MB and an AGP video adapter has a 128-MB aperture mapped, there
is very little address space remaining for the other system code and
data that must occupy this range of virtual addresses. "
from:
Microsoft knowledge base
( http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;253912 )
 
havent really had the chance to mess with this much, i know it sounds a bit odd and all but i just think it would be interesting to see how it goes.

never heard of having to lag a system to run a game, that just seems weird. lol

many thanks for the replies everyone. one of these days i will give this a shot just for the heck of it
 
Hi there, I registered so I could briefly answer a few things.

Here is my current system:

OS: Windows ME
Motherboard: Asus A8V Deluxe
CPU: AMD Opteron 154 2.8Ghz with Zalman CNPS7700-AlCu cooler
Memory: 2x 1GB PC3200 Kingston DDR SDRAM (limited to 1995MB in Windows through a tweak otherwise the system doesn't boot and hopefully replaced by a pair of OCZ Platinum later this month so I can OC a bit)
Graphic Card: nVidia Geforce FX 5200 (and waiting for some molex divider cables to power an XFX 7800 GS which is waiting and will require the use of unofficial drivers)
Disks: 1 x 80GB E-IDE Samsung + 1 x 200GB E-IDE WDC (requires an unofficial patch to fix the LBA48 bug) and 2 x 250GB SATA WDC, all 7200RPM.

Not too bad, is it? :santa:

So, as far as memory goes Windows ME can use a maximum of 1995MB of RAM and Windows 98SE only around 1GB but there is an inexpensive commercial patch that allows to use 4GB on both systems.

I cut short here as I just wanted to give an example of a decently beefy 9x system and can only recommend to read up or register and post questions in the windows 95/98/ME subsection of the MSFN forums if you wanna know more.

Cheers.
 
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I'd say a VM would be much easier to maintain, though. You don't have to worry about hardware at all, and it's already isolated from your main OS. Backup would just be copying the VM-file somewhere. If there's a software issue inside the VM, just rollback to a snapshot.

+1 for VM i played Red Alert like that.

+1

it might not be a bad idea to run it on a virtualbox. You can just install window's normally on it and then just virtual install it and since its small and doesn't require much performance it should run perfectly.
The other option I was thinking of is maybe running in compatibility modes and run the older games that way?

+1

I'd say a VM would be much easier to maintain, though. You don't have to worry about hardware at all, and it's already isolated from your main OS. Backup would just be copying the VM-file somewhere. If there's a software issue inside the VM, just rollback to a snapshot.


and +1 again. Not to mention there are preinstalled VM's you can get a hold of, normally I would not say that but I think windows 95 or whatever 'could' be considered 'abandonware'... (That is as much as I will say about that here though, I do not condone pirating)


However! If you want I have a P3 400mhz Gateway with the Riva2 and like 60mb ram,
and
A Compac P3 laptop with 90mb ram, (was running like XP '00)

Both are MINT! Pm me if you are interested. I was going to make a router out of the Gateway but set up DDWRT in Virtualbox instead seeing as i got a dual Lan board.....
 
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but there is an inexpensive commercial patch that allows to use 4GB on both systems.

You mean 3.2 GB?

I remember the problem being on Windows 9x/Me with over 512MB of RAM and you needed to


Open the System.ini file in a text editor, such as Notepad.
System.ini is usually located in C:\Windows folder.

Go to the [VCache] section and change the maximum amount of memory that VCache uses to 512 MB (524288 KB) or less.
The line should read:

[VCache]
MaxFileCache=524288

 
You mean 3.2 GB?

Yeah actually I meant as much of the 4GB the BIOS allows to access just as in XP.

Here is a link to this patch if anyone is interested: http://rloew.limewebs.com/Programs/Patchm.htm

I remember the problem being on Windows 9x/Me with over 512MB of RAM and you needed to

Open the System.ini file in a text editor, such as Notepad.
System.ini is usually located in C:\Windows folder.

Go to the [VCache] section and change the maximum amount of memory that VCache uses to 512 MB (524288 KB) or less.
The line should read:

[VCache]
MaxFileCache=524288


The VCache setting has nothing to do with the amount of RAM you can use AFAIK but if it is set above 512MB there will be some errors here and there, with DOS VM boxes notably.

The limit of RAM that can be used with an unpatched 98SE on recent supported hardware is reported to be around 1150MB so 1GB of RAM should not be a problem normally. If there is more than 1GB of physical RAM on the machine, then MaxPhysPage value under [386Enh] in system.ini should be set to an appropriate value otherwise Windows will fail to initialize on boot.

How to calculate this value is specified here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/181862

In Windows ME this limit is 1995MB which is slightly less than 2GB and I use a MaxPhysPage value of 7CB00 as to be able to use Windows ME with 2GB (losing just 53MB of the 2048MB which is OK):

[386Enh]
MaxPhysPage=7CB00

:bday:
 
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