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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarthDog View Post


    Absolutely. Thats a HUGE difference since you can adjust the level of tessellation in the benchmark.
    Another big +1. I just got a new personal best 3DMark 11 using that method plus some extra MHz on the GPU (still air cooled with stock cooler).



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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I dunno what is it you wanted to tell me?

    After all they got a few pride left, really really + really!

    The 7000 series indeed handles a hard punch on tesselation, they are strong at that. The 6000 series however surely will go down to the kneel at some point. The Radeon 7000 isnt tuned for pointless performance ratings, because its using a architecture which does handle demanding setting much better, leaving the most powerful parts unused when that stuff isnt running. Sure, rating still goes up but not barely as much such as on Geforce card, so its not actually a advantage. On some of those performance ratings they may get several thousand FPS in some cases and then they gonna tell me that theyr CPU is limiting, i mean, yes, thats indeed sad.

    Whatever.
    You mentioned that the card did well with the Tesselation of Heaven. What I'm telling you is that when people benchmark Heaven with an ATI card they turn off Tesselation in their drivers (nVidia doesn't have this 'feature') thus giving a much higher score on ATI cards since it doesn't have to render the Tesselation of the benchmark, but nVidia does.
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  3. #63
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    To be clear, Janus is talking about competetive benchmarking. When I run Heaven in a review, CCC is set at its default settings, with no artificial Tesselation manipulation.

  4. #64
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    It isn't cheating if you are just changing settings that are in the company-supplied drivers page, now if people were opening up .dlls and making it so that the card couldn't render Tesselation when it should be doing so then that is breaking rules.

    It just sucks that nVidia doesn't have the same capability, especially for people that are benchers.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I know what he mean, i did understand it from the beginning but its cheating, thats how i call it. I said that im unable to understand because i didnt actually expect such benchers using dirty tricks and i simply leave it by that. But finally the correct stuff is to leave it at default, means it should use it at the level such as Nvidia does. Its not a bad option to be able to make such finetuning (immense gain for real situation, when you want to get the most out of it) but sadly it does allow for unfair behaviours.

    However, with or without tesselation, the 7000 series will clearly beat the 580 GTX in long term, because neither the games nor the drivers are fully optimized yet, the hardware is simply to much of a child at the current date. It already is beating by 20% (overall) at real situations, but the distance will be even higher and surely no "cheating" needed, there is no need for it, its tesselation is superior to the 580 GTX. Even allowing so much finetuning is a clear sign of its superiority. AMD/ATI was always the forerunner of tesselation. Just with the Fermi architecture Nvidia truly was pumping massive effort into it and did even stomp down the 6000 series on raw performance. However, the 7000 series will get the throne back and continuing where AMD/ATI started on its very tesselation capable consumer cards.
    I don't appreciate being called a cheater or your claim that I'm (along with any benchmarker worth their salt) using dirty tricks. If the person that runs HWBot (Massman) asks whether my initial score used that tweak, then makes a comment on how the score will improve if not, I'd say it's pretty well documented that tweak is not cheating.

    If I were using that setting to artificially increase comparison results in any review, I'd wholeheartedly agree that's crooked and dishonest. We do not do that here. As I already said, all comparison benchmarks are run at default settings; except overclocked comparison benches, where the only thing changed are clockspeeds and, if available, voltage. Even my pushing-the-envelope benchmarks (screenshots toward the end of the review) for reviews are run at default settings. Only after the reviews are completed do I work on additional tweaking to see how scores can be improved.

    You are free to disagree and it's no skin off my back if you want to think a legal, known and readily admitted tweak shouldn't be allowed; but do not come here and accuse me of cheating. That, sir, is one thing I do not, have not and will not do.

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  6. #66
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    A couple improved results after a quick 30min livestream this afternoon.

    3DMark Vantage

    Old: 42247
    • 41st 1x GPU global score
    • Boints: UGP - 32.3, UHP - 2.0, GTPP - 74.0, HTTP - 5.7


    New result from livestream: 42895
    • 33rd 1x GPU global score
    • Boints: UGP - 34.4, UHP - 2.0 - GTTP - 77.0, HTTP - 5.7




    HWBot Heaven Xtreme

    Old: 2156.68
    • 89th 1x GPU global score
    • Boints: UGP - 18.6, UHP - 1.0, GTPP - 30.2, HTTP - 3.3


    New result from livestream: 2660.23
    • 8th 1x GPU global score
    • Boints: UGP - 54.5, UHP - 1.5 - GTTP - 52.4, HTTP - 4.4




    Only two results, but they're both much better than the originals!

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  7. #67
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    Come on Jeremy... You're only 58 marks away from the WR for Heaven... Go get them..
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXSebaSXx View Post
    Come on Jeremy... You're only 58 marks away from the WR for Heaven... Go get them..
    +1

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  9. #69
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    O rly?

    Hmmm...

  10. #70
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    I think it feels the need to be a little chilly
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiealumnus View Post
    O rly?

    Hmmm...


    Name:  WR.jpg
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXSebaSXx View Post
    Come on Jeremy... You're only 58 marks away from the WR for Heaven... Go get them..
    Quote Originally Posted by bmwbaxter View Post
    +1

    Do it, Do it Nao!
    Done...by 150 marks.

    Result from earlier livestream: 2660.23
    • 8th 1x GPU global score
    • Boints: UGP - 54.5, UHP - 1.5 - GTTP - 52.4, HTTP - 4.4


    New world record result: 2869.539
    • 1st 1x GPU global score
    • Boints: UGP - 159.1, UHP - 2.0 - GTTP - 185.6, HTTP - 5.5



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  13. #73
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    Nice! You da man.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiealumnus View Post
    Done...by 150 marks.

    Result from earlier livestream: 2660.23
    • 8th 1x GPU global score
    • Boints: UGP - 54.5, UHP - 1.5 - GTTP - 52.4, HTTP - 4.4


    New world record result: 2869.539
    • 1st 1x GPU global score
    • Boints: UGP - 159.1, UHP - 2.0 - GTTP - 185.6, HTTP - 5.5


    WOW awesome

    If you ran some benches with an AMD cpu, would the results be way lower?
    And would a 2600/2700K be able to get close to that?

    And i'm bummed i missed the livestream.
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  15. #75
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    Not positive about heaven, but vantage and 11 would be way lower on amd.

    I'm going to try and stream again tonight or tomorrow. Watch the benching section.

  16. #76
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    Awesome work Hokie, you the man! I'll keep an eye out for the stream, was busy this afternoon and missed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by notJUSTguitar View Post
    WOW awesome

    If you ran some benches with an AMD cpu, would the results be way lower?
    And would a 2600/2700K be able to get close to that?

    And i'm bummed i missed the livestream.
    AMD cpu's would do poorly, though it may not be a huge difference - heaven is one of the better 3d benchmarks for isolating the GPU performance. Other 3d benchmarks, like 3d03 especially, are well known for being very dependent upon the CPU performance - my Bulldozer at 7GHz with a 5870 at 1300/1200 put up a score comparable to i7 920 on a moderate overclock with the 5870 at 1050/1200.

    A 2600k or 2700k would put up about the same scores, possibly better as many of those clock higher than 5GHz. Again though, I don't think heaven is that sensitive to CPU clock speed.
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  17. Thanks!

    hokiealumnus (01-01-12)

  18. #77
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    Ok thanks. I kinda meant benchmarks in general with 7970 but AMD vs Intel scores.

    I might switch to Intel later this year & water cool if I have the money.

    Ok, i'll watch the benching section
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  19. #78
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    Congrats Jeremy, that is fantastic. Really makes me consider selling my 580s... oh dear.
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  20. Thanks!

    hokiealumnus (01-01-12)

  21. #79
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    Oh man. The 9th can't come fast enough.

    Excellent work!!!
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  22. Thanks!

    hokiealumnus (01-01-12)

  23. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by notJUSTguitar View Post
    Ok thanks. I kinda meant benchmarks in general with 7970 but AMD vs Intel scores.

    I might switch to Intel later this year & water cool if I have the money.

    Ok, i'll watch the benching section
    for competitive benching, like on hwbot.org, no one would run bulldozer with a 7970. the scores would generally be smashed by any sandybridge platform, even if the AMD system was clocked thru the roof - a moderate OC on sandybridge on air would beat a bulldozer on ln2. For the 2600k you mentioned, 3d benches would be very similar, except the ones which include multithreaded CPU tests - SB-E is would rule those rankings.

    for non-competitive benchmarking, we'd have to see someone actually run the tests to know how big the difference is.

    windwithme did a review recently comparing bulldozer in 3d to an 1100t. he was going to include a sandybridge, but didn't as it would clobber both in most benches. the 1100t beats bulldozer handily in most 3d benches.

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