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  1. #181
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    I guess I'll stuff this post in here, more appropriate than other threads.


    IB seems to be the way to go for my next build, thanks to OCF mainly, as there are so many things going on with IB + heat, mobos, ram, sata 3, usb 3, cooling options. Man, there is sure a lot to take in. But Intel is going to introduce some higher clocked IB's in the third quarter which is just around the corner. No way to know today if they have any intentions on soldering the next issue of chips or stick with TIM. Buy now? Hold off ?


    Gotta believe that perhaps some solder creators are working their mojo to turn in a solution whether Intel has requested them to or not. Would make a great sales pitch if the current solders don't offer a solution, if that is even the problem. And howzabout the cooling solutionists ? (is that even a word ?) Mo better heat sinks, water blocks, rads?


    Anybody got a crystal ball? What's the word on the street?
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  2. #182
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    Lol, I think we're talking about different things here. GCN is a different, vector based architecture made specifically for compute type tasks. I doubt it would provide any benefit whatsoever in gaming. Once varies programs are rewritten to use the GPU side of things you're generally looking at a minimum of a 10x performance boost in those apps. The GPU as a co processor rather than something for video.
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  3. #183
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    Cool, we're on the same page then.

    I hope Intel succeeds in buying out nVidia sometime down the track otherwise if AMD succeeds Intels going to be left behind. I don't care which company it is that's on top, we just need to have competition to bring down pricing and drive performance up.

    Besides, it's not like AMD is EVER going to beat Intel on pure x86 performance.
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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by satandole666 View Post
    So I still have my trusty Storm Rev.2 from the AMD64 days. I'm wondering how a 3770K would do delidded and WCed for 24/7...
    This was my first thought when I read the thread with the guy that de-lidded his IVB. "My cathar storm block was designed for a bare die, I could make this proc a bare die...." Prolly shouldn't plan on destroying (with my luck) an expensive part that I don't even own yet.

    Then I saw the post talking about impingement and had flashbacks to my research in buying my storm g4 block. Good times.
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  5. #185
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    This situation reminds me of an old method to protect cpu die from crushing or chipped corner when mounting and during fastening the cooler base above it.

    Details here -> Protecting IHS-less Core !


  6. #186
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    Hmm... another possible use for art eraser. It would be very similar to insulating the motherboard up to the top of the IHS for sub-zero cooling, except this is on a smaller scale. Seems like a good idea
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  7. #187
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    Maybe replace the paste with Coollaboratory Liquid Pro under the IHS instead. It's about as close as you're going to get to simulating what a soldered TIM would be...

    http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/colipro1.html

    This would be rather nice to see tested... The Coollaboratory Liquid products can be a bit of a PITA to use, but for bare dies like GPU's and such with copper heatsink (bases) I've had really good luck with them.

  8. #188
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    Thanks for suggesting a testable method to simulate a soldered IHS.

    I would like to establish how hot a tri-gate chip is with a soldered IHS.

    If a soldered IHS doesn't make Ivy Bridge significantly cooler I'm less inclined to wait for Haswell for the reason that it might reintroduce the soldered IHS.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus67 View Post
    The temps can be very high depending on the chip. Last night I booted up my system running at stock volts and speeds and was idling in the mid-40s. That was with only 1.1v. Now some people have managed to get 4.5ghz out of just 1.2v, it took 1.23 for me to be able to boot and it wasn't stable up to 1.25v (haven't tried higher yet) and was hitting temps in the low 80s. Now this is with a venomous-x cooler (which I attached two higher powered panaflo fans that I normally used on my 2600k) and not your modded kuhler, but just to give you an idea.
    Thanks for the info. Its tempting! Everyone is out of the 3770k and was thinking the 3570k but microcenter has the 2700k for $280 so kinda leaning that way right now. Aside from ipc I think the 2700k would be a better choice from the 3570k but the 3770k if kept cool for 24/7 at 4.8ghz would be great
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  10. #190
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    does it matter how hot it runs? I saw a review which was benchmarking at 5Ghz and over 100C but does that matter? Why or why not?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerHunter View Post
    does it matter how hot it runs? I saw a review which was benchmarking at 5Ghz and over 100C but does that matter? Why or why not?
    running your chip at high temps will contribute to CPU degredation and ultimately shorten the lifespan of you CPU

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  12. #192
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    It is OK. The TJmax is 105C (where it throttles down to save itself) vs SB that was 95C.

    As always, the cooler the better.

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  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerHunter View Post
    does it matter how hot it runs? I saw a review which was benchmarking at 5Ghz and over 100C but does that matter? Why or why not?
    It matters because too high of temps can cause stability issues and if it gets hot enough the CPU will throttle itself to prevent damage which will have a major impact on performance. Also if you are running at 100c you could easily get a temp spike that will cause your computer to BSOD.

    Definitely not the desired result.

  14. #194
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    The 920 I have gets to 75C sometimes on water and never had issues. I really don't care as long as it's stable and WC for noise purposes mainly especially with loud video cards. Anyway good info - I will try and keep it lower than 105C.

  15. #195
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    I wouldnt go higher than the mid 80s when stress testing personally. Keep WELL away from 105C, just as you kept well away from 100C (had wrong # up there, sorry).

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  16. #196
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    I would set 85C to be an approximate temp limit on the CPU, I like to keep my CPUs about 20C under TJMax at 100% load to do my best to prevent any sort of degration
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  17. #197
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    Could this affect multiple mounts?

    I am curious now on how the design is of the new IHS to avoid multiple mounts of a heatsink from giving problems with air pockets in the TIM?

    Consider that you mount a new heatsink. You tighten it up well.
    Unless the TIM is of a different design than anything else I have seen, you will potentially squeeze it a bit (I mean, you actually want to do so I think) and some of it will have to go out to the side.

    Remove the heatsink and the pressure, and I would guess the IHS "bounces back" giving you air pockets between the IHS and the TIM/cpu die.

    I this could get even worse I guess if you just squeeze hard on the middle of the IHS with your finger and the heatsink would always eventually stop against the side walls of the IHS (depending of course on exactly how tall these are vs. the die, I am sure it is practically the same, but is it accurate enough?).

    This would eventually leave it to the TIM you put on top of the IHS to make sure the IHS gets "pushed down enough" to remove any air pockets (potentially benefitting the use of rather thick TIM like arctic silver or ceramique?) if that is even possible on a second mount.

    Could it be that the second mount of a heatsink will never ever get the same quality in heat transfer as the first? Just like reusing the TIM on a heatsink multiple times?

    Yes, I realize the IHS most likely is is pretty stiff as well (I have not seen the IB one, but older IHS's I have played with was not easily bendable), but I assume there is some microscopic bending of it when you tighten a heatsink well on top of it so the center part will get squeezed down a bit.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by TNM View Post
    I am curious now on how the design is of the new IHS to avoid multiple mounts of a heatsink from giving problems with air pockets in the TIM?

    Consider that you mount a new heatsink. You tighten it up well.
    Unless the TIM is of a different design than anything else I have seen, you will potentially squeeze it a bit (I mean, you actually want to do so I think) and some of it will have to go out to the side.

    Remove the heatsink and the pressure, and I would guess the IHS "bounces back" giving you air pockets between the IHS and the TIM/cpu die.

    I this could get even worse I guess if you just squeeze hard on the middle of the IHS with your finger and the heatsink would always eventually stop against the side walls of the IHS (depending of course on exactly how tall these are vs. the die, I am sure it is practically the same, but is it accurate enough?).

    This would eventually leave it to the TIM you put on top of the IHS to make sure the IHS gets "pushed down enough" to remove any air pockets (potentially benefitting the use of rather thick TIM like arctic silver or ceramique?) if that is even possible on a second mount.

    Could it be that the second mount of a heatsink will never ever get the same quality in heat transfer as the first? Just like reusing the TIM on a heatsink multiple times?

    Yes, I realize the IHS most likely is is pretty stiff as well (I have not seen the IB one, but older IHS's I have played with was not easily bendable), but I assume there is some microscopic bending of it when you tighten a heatsink well on top of it so the center part will get squeezed down a bit.
    Now that is quite a thought. Makes sense. They'd really have to tighten up the IHS/CPU join to keep that from happening.
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  19. #199
    Member diaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarthDog View Post
    I wouldnt go higher than the mid 80s when stress testing personally. Keep WELL away from 105C, just as you kept well away from 100C (had wrong # up there, sorry).
    Quote Originally Posted by Janus67 View Post
    I would set 85C to be an approximate temp limit on the CPU, I like to keep my CPUs about 20C under TJMax at 100% load to do my best to prevent any sort of degration
    You guys worried the chip will degrade over time? It shouldn't since it is protected at 105C.. Its not going to start melting, the melting point is much higher than that. Silicon melts at 1400C for example.. of course there are other materials used on the chip, but just saying that if they engineered it to work at 104C and protect itself at 105C, then it will be fine.

    Unless someone here has concrete evidence that high temps causes CPU degradation to many people? The only chips I have seen destroyed are ones with the safeguards/throttling turned off and chips pushed WAY beyond their engineered realm of operation.

    A barrier I would see is if you set it to 104C, and then your ambient temps increase on certain days. So you'd want your max ambient delta to be considered. So something around 90C, expecting a ~+10 fudge factor on your ambient.

    Another situation is cooling degradation. If your PC collects dust, with time you might gain some temps, so keep an eye on temps and dust PC often
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  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by diaz View Post
    You guys worried the chip will degrade over time? It shouldn't since it is protected at 105C.. Its not going to start melting, the melting point is much higher than that. Silicon melts at 1400C for example.. of course there are other materials used on the chip, but just saying that if they engineered it to work at 104C and protect itself at 105C, then it will be fine.

    Unless someone here has concrete evidence that high temps causes CPU degradation to many people? The only chips I have seen destroyed are ones with the safeguards/throttling turned off and chips pushed WAY beyond their engineered realm of operation.

    A barrier I would see is if you set it to 104C, and then your ambient temps increase on certain days. So you'd want your max ambient delta to be considered. So something around 90C, expecting a ~+10 fudge factor on your ambient.

    Another situation is cooling degradation. If your PC collects dust, with time you might gain some temps, so keep an eye on temps and dust PC often
    its also going to cause stability issues, i doubt you would get a chip that can run at 100 c under prime that would stay stable. I would assume most chips are going to run into stability issues when hitting the high 80's/ early 90s

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