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Sub Zero cooling questions

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SkyChotik

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Location
Wisconsin, USA
I've always admired Digital Storms PC cooling, but not the prices they put on their machines that DO have great cooling. I know they use TEC plates and liquid cool those, but how?

I don't understand how they get their idle temperatures below 0C, would someone mind explaining this to me?
 
A TEC actively moves heat from one side of itself to the other side, it works to establish a 60c to 70c difference in temp between the two sides.
If you can keep the hot side's temp down the cold side will be very cold.
The down side to TECs is that they generate a tremendous amount of heat as well, quite a bit more than they move.
 
A TEC actively moves heat from one side of itself to the other side, it works to establish a 60c to 70c difference in temp between the two sides.
If you can keep the hot side's temp down the cold side will be very cold.
The down side to TECs is that they generate a tremendous amount of heat as well, quite a bit more than they move.

So, I would need a VERY effective waterblock, or a custom one, to get the liquid to flow much faster than a regular liquid cooling system, to get idle temps to drop below 0c when using a TEC?
 
Well, at stock your CPU puts out 95w under load and maybe 20w at idle. To get that 20w to below zero you'll need something like 70-80w of TEC and a water loop that can effectively cool something putting out 90-100W of heat. No big deal.
However when loaded and putting out 95w the CPU will overload the 80-90W TEC and at best you'll have lousy temps, at worst things fry.
To keep the loaded CPU happy you need more like a 200w TEC. Now your cooling system has to be able to deal with 300W!

Worse from a 24/7 standpoint is that any time you're more than a few degrees under ambient temps you will start to get condensation on the cold bits. Water is a very bad thing to have on computer parts! Go subzero and you'll get ice too. Ice isn't conductive, but when you apply a load and go over 0c it turns into lots of water.
Better still once you overclock that 95W cpu and it turns into a 150W CPU you'll need 300W of TEC and cooling for 450W!

In my personal opinion sub-ambient cooling has no place in 24/7 computers due to this.
A system that effectively cools a CPU at full load will get it really cold at idle and cause condensation.
A system that effectively cools a CPU at idle will fry at full load.

It's an interesting exercise and I definitely recommend sub-ambient cooling for benching purposes (and by recommend I mean I'm horribly addicted to it), just not for 24/7 use.
 
Well, at stock your CPU puts out 95w under load and maybe 20w at idle. To get that 20w to below zero you'll need something like 70-80w of TEC and a water loop that can effectively cool something putting out 90-100W of heat. No big deal.
However when loaded and putting out 95w the CPU will overload the 80-90W TEC and at best you'll have lousy temps, at worst things fry.
To keep the loaded CPU happy you need more like a 200w TEC. Now your cooling system has to be able to deal with 300W!

Worse from a 24/7 standpoint is that any time you're more than a few degrees under ambient temps you will start to get condensation on the cold bits. Water is a very bad thing to have on computer parts! Go subzero and you'll get ice too. Ice isn't conductive, but when you apply a load and go over 0c it turns into lots of water.
Better still once you overclock that 95W cpu and it turns into a 150W CPU you'll need 300W of TEC and cooling for 450W!

In my personal opinion sub-ambient cooling has no place in 24/7 computers due to this.
A system that effectively cools a CPU at full load will get it really cold at idle and cause condensation.
A system that effectively cools a CPU at idle will fry at full load.

It's an interesting exercise and I definitely recommend sub-ambient cooling for benching purposes (and by recommend I mean I'm horribly addicted to it), just not for 24/7 use.


Isn't it possible to use a spray-sealant on your motherboard, if you cover the ports? Something like this, possibly [LINK]

Also, wouldn't you almost need a giant radiator, or a rad box to be able to handle 300W of heat?
 
A single GTX580 is around 250w, 300w isn't a lot from a radiator standpoint. From the standpoint of one poor CPU block needing to deal with it, it is a fair amount!

You can coat the motherboard in warranty violating stuff and pack vaseline into the CPU socket and ram sockets and such, that works. Kinda slimy though.
 
A single GTX580 is around 250w, 300w isn't a lot from a radiator standpoint. From the standpoint of one poor CPU block needing to deal with it, it is a fair amount!

You can coat the motherboard in warranty violating stuff and pack vaseline into the CPU socket and ram sockets and such, that works. Kinda slimy though.

In the long run, having a constant stream of nitrogen in a CPU pot would be a better deal? :attn: :rofl:
 
Nah, IMO normal old ambient air cooling is what I recommend for 24/7 :D
 
They're not too bad if you shop around.
I got mine for $350-shipped and there is one in the classifieds for $200+shipping

If you're talking BRAND FREAKING NEW its about $800 for a monster single stage and can be less if you don't want a giant heat-load unit
 
They're not too bad if you shop around.
I got mine for $350-shipped and there is one in the classifieds for $200+shipping

If you're talking BRAND FREAKING NEW its about $800 for a monster single stage and can be less if you don't want a giant heat-load unit

Well, I would have two 560s, and an FX-8100 in the loop if I were to get one, and was just seeing if anybody knew if there was a pretty simple way to do it internally, maybe in an 800D?
 
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A phase change doesn't really work in a loop like that. It brings to a single point of contact that you would mount onto a CPU/GPU. I don't believe that is a solution that could work for SLI unless someone made a mounting plate that went horizontal instead of straight down onto the chip.
 
I say you'd be much better off just by going to water cooling... There are plenty of manufacturers for WC stuff and it's proven to work quite well... Just grab some cpu/gpu blocks, some tubing, a pump and one or two radiators and done... It will cost you more than what a used phase unit would, but it will be far cheaper in the long run. Just think about how much power a beefy enough TEC or Phase would suck in order to keep a CPU and two GPUs cold ALL THE TIME... might as well get some good rads and fans and save some money that way.
 
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