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A few questions for a future set up

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Atmus

New Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
I've been reading up on a lot of the various builds here since before I registered, and I've read the stickies. I'm mostly interested in the geothermal cooling set ups as I have the yard and the house for it, but there are a few things I didn't quite see addressed in any of the builds. Or if they were, I failed to notice them.

I refinished the basement when I bought the house as it's generally the coolest and quietest area of any house, so if I were to do a geothermal grid, there's a good chance that the computers would be below the radiator, possibly by as much as four feet. Would that constitute a problem with sealing the heat sinks and plumbing inside the case? I would assume that compression fittings could take it no problem, but that isn't something I want to find out the hard way if someone else already knows. If it is a problem, I know a couple ways around it, but they would lower the efficiency and increase complexity a bit.

I understand that GT cooling can create a much larger temperature drop than normale air radiative cooling, and that can lead to condensation issues. I'm confident I can seal the case against that. However, I'm not sure what to do about the DVD drive. Would that not get cold as well, creating a moisture vulnerability? I assume I could insullate that separately. Would it be worth having a radiator inside the case to blow cold air around, or would I be better served water cooling the chipset and hard drives directly? If it matters, I use aluminum server tower cases, so the thing isn't thermally insulative at all. That might be nice in the summer, and I could put a cover over them in the winter.

I realise that it's probably foolish to plan something this advanced for my first foray into watercooling, but with the summer's upcoming landscaping projects, there won't be a better time to get the outside part done, even if the indoors part is a year away.

I hope my questions weren't horribly stupid, as I've been thinking about this for quite some time, but I'm at the point where some knowledge from the experts would be much appreciated. If my plan is unworkable or way too impractical, I would at least like to know why so I can stop thinking about it.
 
I can only speculate, but I would think you would not need radiators due to the GT loop.

The copper loop that you bury is going to BE your radiator.

That aside, you will want at least one fan in the case to cool the VRMs n such.

I'll leave it on that note and let someone more knowledgeable take it from there.
 
I've been reading up on a lot of the various builds here since before I registered, and I've read the stickies. I'm mostly interested in the geothermal cooling set ups as I have the yard and the house for it, but there are a few things I didn't quite see addressed in any of the builds. Or if they were, I failed to notice them.

First, good luck :)

I refinished the basement when I bought the house as it's generally the coolest and quietest area of any house, so if I were to do a geothermal grid, there's a good chance that the computers would be below the radiator, possibly by as much as four feet. Would that constitute a problem with sealing the heat sinks and plumbing inside the case? I would assume that compression fittings could take it no problem, but that isn't something I want to find out the hard way if someone else already knows. If it is a problem, I know a couple ways around it, but they would lower the efficiency and increase complexity a bit.

I dont think this could be an issue. BTW, with such a setup with very long tubing underground you are better with a strong pump so i should be able to pump even if the grid is higher or lower. The clamp and tubing will be fine.


I understand that GT cooling can create a much larger temperature drop than normale air radiative cooling, and that can lead to condensation issues. I'm confident I can seal the case against that. However, I'm not sure what to do about the DVD drive. Would that not get cold as well, creating a moisture vulnerability? I assume I could insullate that separately. Would it be worth having a radiator inside the case to blow cold air around, or would I be better served water cooling the chipset and hard drives directly? If it matters, I use aluminum server tower cases, so the thing isn't thermally insulative at all. That might be nice in the summer, and I could put a cover over them in the winter.

Your right about condensation that could become an issue if your loop become too cool. As for the DVD, simply use and External USB DVD ?


I realise that it's probably foolish to plan something this advanced for my first foray into watercooling, but with the summer's upcoming landscaping projects, there won't be a better time to get the outside part done, even if the indoors part is a year away.

Good idea :)


I hope my questions weren't horribly stupid, as I've been thinking about this for quite some time, but I'm at the point where some knowledge from the experts would be much appreciated. If my plan is unworkable or way too impractical, I would at least like to know why so I can stop thinking about it.

Good luck again ! Nothing can't be done ;) Bury the loop lower enough so it wont freeze in winter.


Some member here already made such loop, i hope they can help you when you will dive into it :)
 
Yeah, a standard in case pump wouldn't cut it at all due to friction losses and such. I have more experience with the larger ones anyway, and plumbing in a backup pump and air bleeder would be a lot easier for external ones.
 
I think this THREAD will better help you as I find it very facinating on how GT is done. I'am not into that type of cooling or well informed about it but do like seeing others take on a project of the like.
 
Rise, my thread. Rise, and become something wondrous!

Eventually, anyway. As anyone reading timestamps can see, I wasn't in a big hurry with this project. Which is good, since it's taken quite a turn! I'm no longer planning on putting the geothermal grid in the back yard, as fate kind of forced a better solution on me.

Any of you in Colorado probably remembers that September 10th, 2013 it started raining. It stopped raining sometime around the 13th, totaling around 38 inches (or about 1 meter) of total rainfall. This was inconvenient, as my house and property were designed around a third of that over the course of a year. The backyard flooded, my basement flooded, and I found out that while I can evacuate approximately 2 tons of computers, consoles, games, movies, stereo equipment, TV's, monitors, guns, ammo, frogs, and geckos up 1.5 stories with a time limit, I can't do much (including walking) for the next week. The high water mark in the basement was about 15 inches. I was able to save almost everything, apart from some paperback books and MDF furniture. The furnace, AC, and the clothes washer and dryer survived as well, and only needed a little attention to get back up and running. A nice lady from FEMA came out, did her thing, and I got a decent check about a week later.

Hauling the ruined carpet and pad out took a day, the other waterlogged stuff took another day, and the City of Aurora was generous about providing roll-offs for disposal. 'Life' happens, so I didn't get started on the rest of the demolition as quickly as I should have (and truthfully I'm still not finished), but it gave me plenty of time to plan on how to make my house flood-resistant as well as correct some previous refinishing mistakes. Tile instead of carpet, no electrical outlets or wiring near the floor, and-most importantly-a full bathroom. The full bathroom requires plumbing. Plumbing in a basement requires cutting the slab. What I found when I did that is the part that this forum will actually care about.

I found water. This was months after the flood had receded and we were back into a dry summer. What I found was the area's natural water table. 11 inches below the top of my 5 inch slab was a constant level of 55 degree Fahrenheit water. The water level never changed more than an inch and my admittedly crude recording methods never detected a meaningful change in temperature. As the basement was mostly gutted and slab was getting cut and the underlayment was getting dug for a sewage line anyway, it was immediately obvious. . . It will never be easier to set up for a geothermal cooling loop than it is right now.

The setup I have in mind is smaller, and simpler than my original idea. 3/4 inch copper pipe down below the water table, 20 feet to where the new shower drain will be, and 20 feet back. The channel cut is too narrow for coils or anything else really, and is only about 6 inches wide at the top. Concrete is cheap but not fun to work with, so I'm not going to go wider than that. Hauling 50 bags of 60lb concrete mix from the truck to the basement is a good workout, by the way. the below slab part will be pressure tested before and after installation to keep the dirty water out and to ensure that I won't need to dig it up, especially since I won't. If the system gets breached, I'll have to abandon it entirely as repair will be unfeasible.

I'll have pictures soonish. The only thing to see right now is an ugly basement, muddy trench, and a bunch of copper pipe.

In the mean time, any bets as to how much I can cool with this set up when I get it going?
 
Sorry to hear about about that rain. On a good note you saved most of the stuff and you're fixing up the place better than it was before. :salute:

I guess you can possibly run some lines, assuming you're under the freezing line, just under the tiles for heated floors? lol Just an idea that struck me since I know whats its like living in a basement. :p
 
I guess you can possibly run some lines, assuming you're under the freezing line, just under the tiles for heated floors? lol Just an idea that struck me since I know whats its like living in a basement. :p

I'd have to tear up too much of the slab to do that. It's also not really needed as that level stays pretty warm in the winter with all the electronic stuff going. A lot of the times I would have the heat vents closed and a window open. I eventually stopped using the heater for the waterbed and just used a thicker mattress sheet for it. The lighting systems for the gecko and frog vivariums add to the heat load as well.

If anything, I'd like to adjust the house's airflow so that the warm air in the basement is exchanged with the cooler air in the rest of the house, but that's not feasible.
 
If anything, I'd like to adjust the house's airflow so that the warm air in the basement is exchanged with the cooler air in the rest of the house, but that's not feasible.

Kind of like a PC case. :p
 
Small update, but with pictures!

Most of my photos were unusable, but this is better than nothing at least.


Here you can see the vertical pipes, they are 4' long.
20150102_090901.jpg

The white PVC section is about 5' long, and replaces the cast iron that I removed. Now I have a cleanout (the bagged thing on the right) and the wye that goes to the shower is on the left. You can also see some copper going that way as well.
20150102_165751.jpg

This is more or less where the uprights will be behind the drywall.
20150102_165824.jpg

This is the only picture of the underwater plumbing that came out well. The water level was pretty low due to the weather when I took these, but even so they are fully submerged.
20150102_165846.jpg

I've started burying things. Most of what looks like rock here is actually just clay, so the copper and PVC aren't in danger.
20150104_183114.jpg

Basically the same thing.
20150104_183122.jpg

This gives you kind of an idea of where things go. The U-turn is about where the top of the picture cuts off the PVC pipe, about 20' from where the copper pipes go into the ground.
20150104_183140.jpg

I've modified my plan some. I'll be building a counter-top style desk unit over where I did the plumbing in the first picture. It'll be about 8' wide, 2.5' deep, and 1' high, with plenty of internal space for computer and watercooling components. I'll probably even add a small radiator to help keep the room cooler in the summer. I'll draw up some diagrams after I get a better idea on the sizes of certain things. If nothing else, it will be much easier to seal up against condensation, and I'll have something to put the game consoles and stuff on.
 
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