august challenge

ATMINSIDE said:

Keny, the big thing here is that it gives new guys a chance to step in and win the monthly challenge, and get them addicted to benching

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Yeah, and there not going to be able to do that if you or I put up a score worth 60 points straight away even though it was only worth 1 new point in reality, when there first submission could be worth "in real terms" more than yours or my score even though it may only be worth 5 "new' points, it must be run as a "new" points comp or else it will be dominated by high scoring benchmarks being re run by current team members and making it look like they have scored big points but in reality the gains made are minimum.

keny said:

Yeah, and there not going to be able to do that if you or I put up a score worth 60 points straight away even though it was only worth 1 new point in reality, when there first submission could be worth "in real terms" more than yours or my score even though it may only be worth 5 "new' points, it must be run as a "new" points comp or else it will be dominated by high scoring benchmarks being re run by current team members and making it look like they have scored big points but in reality the gains made are minimum.

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Just pushes the guys that have been around to find tweaks to get more points

ATMINSIDE said:

Just pushes the guys that have been around to find tweaks to get more points

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Exactly, and the only way for the new guys to have any sort of chance is to make it a "new" point challenge, as Janus said earlier, a screen of you're profile at the beginning of the month with notepad with you're name and date on the screen is the easiest way currently suggested of doing it, then who has the most extra points at the end of the month, takes the win, that way new guys have an advantage over the current team members, which is what we are looking for in a "open to all" comp

ChanceCoats123 said:

Any points that add to a user's total points "user points" add to the team ranking. There is a power point ranking and a user point ranking, IIRC.

This seems like a pretty fair competition because:

-no hardware or cooling would be preferred as a way to win, so no hardware or cooling is discriminated against.
-the raw number of points that end up being earned will greatly benefit the team overall standing
-New members can be competitive with long time benchers because it's a combination of skill and hardware available instead of a skill and cooling competition.
-all benchmarks which earn points are fair game, so new members (and old members) can get a taste of each kind of benchmark.

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I agree with the general reasoning, although those that go sub-ambient have a greater chance at earning points of course.

Janus67 said:

I agree with the general reasoning, although those that go sub-ambient have a greater chance at earning points of course.

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Those that are going sub-ambient probably already have a submission in what they're working on though.

Keny, if you already have 85 points in a sub and do the same bench again and better it by getting 91 points that would only add 6 to your running total for the month. How does that put anyone at an advantage?

keny said:

Exactly, and the only way for the new guys to have any sort of chance is to make it a "new" point challenge, as Janus said earlier, a screen of you're profile at the beginning of the month with notepad with you're name and date on the screen is the easiest way currently suggested of doing it, then who has the most extra points at the end of the month, takes the win, that way new guys have an advantage over the current team members, which is what we are looking for in a "open to all" comp

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You need to be more specific when you say "new points". There are three kinds of points:

User points: ALL hardware and global combined
Power points: Awarded for the top run on the team with hardware and in each benchmark
League points: points consist of top 20 hardware submissions and top 15 global submissions per user

You and I have the same idea for a competition, but mine is based on raw points and aims for the user points ranking. Your focus is for league points, which is more important for individual members than for the team (or at least that is my understanding).

PenguinsPal said:

Keny, if you already have 85 points in a sub and do the same bench again and better it by getting 91 points that would only add 6 to your running total for the month. How does that put anyone at an advantage?

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It was suggested as a "points per bench" throughout the month, not a points gained, so your'e sub of a extra 6 points would have gained you 91 points for the month..... as i understand it.



And Chance, i was thinking of a total points gained across the board
so i would start the month with 941.7 then whatever i have come the end of the month after adding all three up then that's my total for the month.

example

That's more of what I was imagining a well Keny. Sub total across all 3.

Nice one Keny.

Thanks for the explanation, but I don't reckon that would work... Two of the fields you boxed are the same. The top two are two different point rankings, and the bottom on is just a summary of the top ranking (notice that they are both 305.1).

Wait a second though... I just looked at mine, and I'm seeing quite a few different numbers.



The top is my point ranking when you view the OCF team page and click members. The bottom is the point ranking on my profile.

As you can see, the TPP and UP match up, but the league points are separate from those two, and from a fourth ranking called "Contribution." Why don't we make the competition about who has the largest gain in their "Contribution" ranking because that is the most direct way to help the team.

If we don't want to exclude any members, we can try to have a percentage system instead of raw points, but percentages are difficult to work with new members as any points they earn will be over zero, and we'll get a vertical asymptote.

I think the bottom one is different, its just showing the wrong amount on my profile (don't know why, typical bot glitch) as my total points (the bottom one) are actually 402 so there are three different amounts to be tallied up


A contribution comp would be tricky to make points on for a newcomer but definitely a good idea

BTW you have some serious hardware points

a new bencher with newer hardware will always have the benefit of no points showing, and therefore all points count towards whatever group you look at. those of us that have benched everything we can get our hands on (many do this automatically) are at a serious disadvantage with any kind of "new" points.

doesnt really matter to me what the comp is or how it is parlayed.

only really fair way to everyone, would be to have a beginners and advanced groups. Then whats the draw to be the biggest minnow in a small pond.

I have always been for being ranked wherever you may, but have always prefered to be rated against the best. Thats where the pride comes in

keny said:

I think the bottom one is different, its just showing the wrong amount on my profile (don't know why, typical bot glitch) as my total points (the bottom one) are actually 402 so there are three different amounts to be tallied up


A contribution comp would be tricky to make points on for a newcomer but definitely a good idea

BTW you have some serious hardware points

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Take a look at Woomack... I like that idea then. I'm not quite sure which points count towards the contribution, but I would think that any new submission from a member would "contribute" to the team ranking. Either way, I like the direction this competition is headed. It should draw a big crowd. I don't know how much I will be able to bench since I'm moving down to Champaign on the 22nd, and I have to return Pat's dewar (or buy it myself) at some point before then. I'm hoping I can get my 7970 benched before I head down to school though.

dejo said:

a new bencher with newer hardware will always have the benefit of no points showing, and therefore all points count towards whatever group you look at. those of us that have benched everything we can get our hands on (many do this automatically) are at a serious disadvantage with any kind of "new" points.

doesnt really matter to me what the comp is or how it is parlayed.

only really fair way to everyone, would be to have a beginners and advanced groups. Then whats the draw to be the biggest minnow in a small pond.

I have always been for being ranked wherever you may, but have always prefered to be rated against the best. Thats where the pride comes in

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I like the way you think, Jonnie. And those are some definite points to be made. What I like about a raw points competition is that we can gain a lot of new members, which then will want to compete in the "real" benching marathon (that starts this fall/early winter). This August (and July as well) competition are just space filler, really.

Wow, I really like the input / ideas you developed here. Very good ideas!
I had something different in mind, however I will adapt to what you suggested.
Just two small questions left, so most of you agreed with posting a screenshot prior to entering the competion and then compare the new points? Seems like the best option to me.
As for the two divisions, beginners and advanced, where would you draw the line? Should the member decide him(her)self or would you consider a point limit to be the deciding factor?
Since someone mentioned percentages, obviously it wouldn't work with the new members, but if you like we could use that format in the advanced section.

Let me know what you think. Although August is just a space filler, too, it looks very promising to me

idkfa said:

Wow, I really like the input / ideas you developed here. Very good ideas!
I had something different in mind, however I will adapt to what you suggested.
Just two small questions left, so most of you agreed with posting a screenshot prior to entering the competion and then compare the new points? Seems like the best option to me.
As for the two divisions, beginners and advanced, where would you draw the line? Should the member decide him(her)self or would you consider a point limit to be the deciding factor?
Since someone mentioned percentages, obviously it wouldn't work with the new members, but if you like we could use that format in the advanced section.

Let me know what you think. Although August is just a space filler, too, it looks very promising to me

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You could do beginner/advanced at the split of 20 "Total Points", which is what it takes to get into the benching team here.