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NR 609 7.1 Onkyo Receiver "died" after 2.5 years (heavely used)

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Ivy

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
NR 609 7.1 Onkyo Receiver "died" after 2.5 years (heavily used)

2.5 years of lifetime and my audio device "died", around 6 months after my warranty has ended... thats cool (not for me, nor for environment but for the company). I will check out if there is any free repair possible, but if they deny it then i truly may become angry. The only good thing i have to say: For users that are playing games and watching lot of movies, the Onkyo receiver got outstanding sound because of its powerful sound processing capabilitys, there is probably no audio device at same price tag (~550$) able to match it. But for general music use (no game or movie) its just average (thats fine at that price category). So its kinda hard not to pick a Onkyo for a gamer and movie watcher, in love of good sound.


I guess 10 years ago at the time everyone was talking "how expensive" good audiophile equipment tends to be, i would never have guessed that such a device can have a lifetime any shorter than 10 years. But nowadays "the short living trash market" even was hitting the "audiophile market" it seems, thats sad.


The question i got: Is the issue a general issue we have nowadays or is it my usual "bad luck" problem? Is there any audio hardware with a outstanding lifetime, in other words "build with quality"? We have very high environment issues and that junk is not legitime, we really have to stop building bad electronic parts. Its not only a hassle because its a heavy device and not easy to move it around... its way more than that, i just wont support "trash" at a time of critical environment issues.

Besides: I think the user comment is correct:
Shawn OBrien 5 months ago This model is prone to issues with the HDMI board losing all sound. It happens right at 2 years so it could be a intentional fault, it seems to be very common at 2 years! The recourse is 300 quid repair or a 300$ trade in for a new one.
RIPOFFS!
Source: http://www.trustedreviews.com/onkyo-tx-nr609_Surround-Sound-System_review


Rippoff? Well yes... its a hassle having a device dying after only 2.5 years just because of a pad electronical part. They probably knew from the very beginning that they used a very short living electronical part but since most of the customers arnt using the device 24/7 the failure may only hit them after 5 years or so, just the "hardcore" users may have a failure in a bit more than 2 years... thats a truly hilarious mentality and i definitely wont support this.


Well get in touch with manufacturer regarding the issue. Surely, i can agree the user comment above, there is a issue with a bad electronical part, probably the HDMI board, pretty possible. Even the worst CAPs nowadays have a lifetime longer than that, so its probably not a CAP or another "single" electronical part, it probably a general circuit issue.
 
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Manufacturers are trying to build electronic devices as cheap as possible. The usual culprits are really cheap, low hour capacitors. There was a router that I was looking at not to long ago, which I kept reading about it dieing at around the same time in age. One of the owners was a EE, looked inside the unit and found caps rated at some really low hours. In a device meant to be on and used 24/7, it resulted in a short lifetime, so much so it would die before the warranty period ended. The manufacturer probably didn't do the math correctly on that one. Obvious planned obsolescence at play, though it didn't fare that well for the manufacturer. The EE replaced the caps himself (after having it replaced 3 times under warranty) and hasn't had a problem since.
 
Well, in general you are correct that the CAPs are the main issue. But audio devices (for sound modulation) usualy own pretty huge CAPs and they are less likely to stop working, especially the "electrolytic" CAPs will have big benefit when they come in huge size and as far as i know a Onkyo got not much electrolytic CAPs with low size. Some pictures: http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2011/Onkyo_TX_NR609test.shtml

The Onkyos main CAPs is 10 000 uF/69V, i wouldnt touch them! Not so much small ones, and usualy on separated boards. Prehaps some small ones still died, who knows. At the right side i found a board with a lot of small electrolytic CAPs too, they surely are able to die in a bit more than 2 years of 24/7 use. Why they dont use bigger electrolytic CAPs? Well... money and as faster a device is dying as faster someone buys a new device, i believe, but its n-o-t allowed to tell any form of conspiracy theory because such a theory is dirty and the lie is always true.

In the PC board and PC part environment such CAPs nowadays are almost "gone" thanks to the customers, and thanks to the modular part/PCB sells so the customers will take a close look at the quality of the PC parts and bad CAPs will easely be noticed. But when you buy a "locked" and "closed" device, its easy for the manufacturer just to hide the bad electronical parts and almost no one will notice it because its rarely revealed "whats truly inside". I own a PC main board even having a tantalum POS (japanese) CAP* at almost every single spot and why? Because its a overclockers board and the overclockers take a close took to it... they wont accept trash and the manufacturer knows the deal. *Some users was still making fun of it because its useless in theyr eyes, although they should take a look at my hardware issues from devices dying short time after the end of warranty... so they should value every attempt of quality improvement.

Funnily enough, i didnt buy that board for overclocking, i got me that board because of its "super CAPs" and a very strong PCB layout with high endurance, so i may have a very high lifetime for more than 5 years of 24/7 use (thats my target).

So reality is, PCs have improved a lot but audiophile hardware was going down the roof and are now hitting bad reputation, but in the past the audiophile hardware was always standing for quality, its sad how a industry can become worse. No, the audiophile faction wont be able to "guard theyr so beloved devices" because its simply the harsh reality, no one can fight the truth without lying.

Although, regarding the Panasonic Plasma TVs i have very good experience: My old TV was used almost 24/7 as a monitor replacement (for gaming, movies, internet) and it was able to last over 5 years. Nowadays that Plasma TV is still working properly but i already got a new TV (another Panasonic Plasma of course... the last ever build)... its freaky! So there is always some exceptions, not everyone uses bad parts but its becoming more and more common especially in the TV and sound device market. So, indeed its sad that the Panasonic Plasma market has died, they was one of the few "high endurance" TVs but most consumers was constantly bad mouthing them up to the point the market is wiped out. Usualy the only thing customers talked about "power consume, power consumption. power power power consuuuuuuume", yeah sure.... just to bad theyr arnt wise enough to notice that "endurance" is another critical spot, and a majority of theyr so praised "LED-LCD TVs" are dying after a few years of use, thats a matter i say "congratulations to your high concern of environment friendlyness and power use".

Besides, its even hitting Samsung TVs, some people already found very cheap CAPs inside Samsung TVs, so Samsung is IN NO WAY innocent!! I know, most consumers got in mind that a Samsung TV is the best ever made and unable to die... but nothing of all those "assumptions" is true.
 
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Let me get this straight, you're angry at Onkyo because a product died outside of its warrantied period?
 
Well, in general you are correct that the CAPs are the main issue. But audio devices (for sound modulation) usualy own pretty huge CAPs and theyr are less likely to stop working, especially the "electrolytic" CAPs will have big benefit when they come in huge size and as far as i know a Onkyo got not much electrolytic CAPs with low size. Some pictures: http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2011/Onkyo_TX_NR609test.shtml

The Onkyos main CAPs is 10 000 uF/69V, i wouldnt touch them! Not so much small ones, and usualy on separated boards. Prehaps some small ones still died, who knows. At the right side i found a board with a lot of small electrolytic CAPs too, they surely are able to die in a bit more than 2 years of 24/7 use. Why they dont use bigger electrolytic CAPs? Well... money and as faster a device is dying as faster someone buys a new device, i believe, but its n-o-t allowed to tell any form of conspiracy theory because such a theory is dirty and the lie is always true.

It's isn't always the size of the caps. Electrolytic caps are also rated by hours of use @ certain temperatures. Of course, the more hours/temp its rated for, the more expensive. And when dealing with the number of capacitors the manufacturers go through, those expenses can add up very quickly. It's also a quick way to save some money on electronics, if the absolute cheapest component can be used instead of the more expensive variant.

Although, regarding the Panasonic Plasma TVs i have very good experience: My old TV was used almost 24/7 as a monitor replacement (for gaming, movies, internet) and it was able to last over 5 years. Nowadays that Plasma TV is still working properly but i already got a new TV (another Panasonic Plasma of course... the last ever build)... its freaky! So there is always some exceptions, not everyone uses bad parts but its becoming more and more common especially in the TV and sound device market. So, indeed its sad that the Panasonic Plasma market has died, they was one of the few "high endurance" TVs but most consumers was constantly bad mouthing them up to the point the market is wiped out. Usualy the only thing customers talked about "power consume, power consumption. power power power consuuuuuuume", yeah sure.... just to bad theyr arnt wise enough to notice that "endurance" is another critical spot, and a majority of theyr so praised "LED-LCD TVs" are dying after a few years of use, thats a matter i say "congratulations to your high concern of environment friendlyness and power use".

Besides, its even hitting Samsung TVs, some people already found very cheap CAPs inside Samsung TVs, so Samsung is IN NO WAY innocent!! I know, most consumers got in mind that a Samsung TV is the best ever made and unable to die... but nothing of all those "assumptions" is true.

It's also a way for planned obsolescence. Warranties are planned according to averages of use for a given amount of time. Why use caps can last 10+ years in average use scenarios, when you can save 1/2 the cost or more per cap, for ones that would last just long enough to at least last the warranty period? Cheaper components mean cheaper cost to produce, as well as future revenue from failing devices that force the consumer to buy again. It's win-win for the manufacturer, and lose-lose for the consumer.
 
Let me get this straight, you're angry at Onkyo because a product died outside of its warrantied period?
No im not mad... im so grateful i even may travel to the HQ of that company, sneak into the HQ and hand them over the present of one single kick in the butt for every bad CAP that have died. Trash politics should be forbidden by law... just to bad law is always working for company but barely the opposite.

Outside doesnt matter... 2 kick when inside warranty (except manufacturing failure, means not a issue of general bad build quality), 1 kick outside... and 0 kick when above 5 years of 24/7 use (yeah i know, its lot of kicks).

50 cent more a CAP may sound like a lot when there is many CAPs but in the end when everything is contaminated by trash, even food, at that day they may notice that no one can eat money...
 
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I'm not sure why you're so irritated by this.

The company said "it'll last two years", it lasted two and a half, where's the problem?
 
I'm not sure why you're so irritated by this.

The company said "it'll last two years", it lasted two and a half, where's the problem?

Maybe because it died in the first place? Why should a warranty also be a death clock for electronics (or any other merchandise)? Why can't equipment last, like in ye olden days? Hell, I once had one of those much sought after 1970's Panasonic stereo receivers that still worked like new last I played with it. Would still have it if I was around when things were being thrown out at home, and I bet you anything, it would still be working even now.

A warranty should not be a countdown to needing to buy a replacement. It's supposed to be a guarantee that the merchandise you purchased is defect free for a period of time to ensure nothing suddenly dies.

But I'm sure car manufacturers are working hard on getting the engines to self destruct shortly after the warranty expires, much like the electronics industry has it almost down pat.
 
Maybe because it died in the first place? Why should a warranty also be a death clock for electronics (or any other merchandise)? Why can't equipment last, like in ye olden days? Hell, I once had one of those much sought after 1970's Panasonic stereo receivers that still worked like new last I played with it. Would still have it if I was around when things were being thrown out at home, and I bet you anything, it would still be working even now.

A warranty should not be a countdown to needing to buy a replacement. It's supposed to be a guarantee that the merchandise you purchased is defect free for a period of time to ensure nothing suddenly dies.

But I'm sure car manufacturers are working hard on getting the engines to self destruct shortly after the warranty expires, much like the electronics industry has it almost down pat.

I only expect anything to last as long as the warranty. Past that it is just an added bonus.
Especially if it is an item that I use heavily.

I've literally had things die a day after the warranty ran out.
Did I get mad? No, I said "well that sucks" and moved on with life.
 
Im out of time.. but will answer soon more detailed. Truth is more complex and warranty isnt here i n order to tell for how long a device should life.... foolish world nowadays, guess should force a 5 year law soon.

Really makes me mad havin people with such a mentality.
 
Im out of time.. but will answer soon more detailed. Truth is more complex and warranty isnt here i n order to tell for how long a device should life.... foolish world nowadays, guess should force a 5 year law soon.

Really makes me mad havin people with such a mentality.

Okay, force a 5 year law, that'll force prices up and then things will die after 5 years instead of 2.
Not going to do you any good.

I'm still trying to see why something lasting longer than a manufacturer says it will is a problem.
 
Sounds like more warranty FUD..... Otherwise, why are my socket 775 motherboards still going?

That would mean all my things would be at a landfill right now!
 
But I'm sure car manufacturers are working hard on getting the engines to self destruct shortly after the warranty expires, much like the electronics industry has it almost down pat.
Regarding the cars, fact is that the electronics is the first part which is dying on any newer cars and its basically a hidden "death clock" timer. The car is that heavely connected with the electronics, that its nearly impossible to repair the entire electronics once to much of it was dying. Prehaps a few stuff can be repaired but there is only a certain amount of failures and replacing the entire electronics is nearly impossible, so it means the death clock timer is bound to the cars electronic, even if the engine is able to last probably twice that long. Nowadays you dont need a mechanician in order to repair a car, the thing someone needs the most is a electrician and that is purpose.

Okay, force a 5 year law, that'll force prices up and then things will die after 5 years instead of 2.
Not going to do you any good.

I'm still trying to see why something lasting longer than a manufacturer says it will is a problem.
Really, even to read that stuff is making me start to become enraged and turn into a ball of flames.

And who was telling you that it would make no difference in term things start do die in 5 instead of 2 years? We would have less than half of the waste and clearly lesser energy used (doesnt even matter if a new device may have higher efficiency), and half the hassle for the users who have to turn in theyr faulty stuff (may not be big deal for small parts but some parts such as a heavy TV are not easy to be moved). Ultimately the industry is totaly mind controlling you, prehaps already poisoned by the "short term view" mentality especially in the US. The time of quality US cars have pretty much ended in the ~1990. Nowadays... the mentallity was now hitting almost anything except the high end PC market, because those users are just way to hard to be "mind controlled". Of course if you dont care waste and such... i ask you if the industry is allowed to put the waste right at your garden, including the radioactive stuff of course (its still waste after all), and in term not enough space we can still dig a very big hole right inside your cellar... no worry, we will fix that issue! As a strong supporter of "trash mentallity" im sure you should stand firm and clearly approve it.

Im a supporter of innovations, but not innovations at all cost, the impact on any other factors need to be as low as humanly possible. Guess i was once seeing a picture of how much waste a average american family is creating every single year... and taken over to the humans full lifetime... i dare even to think about. Its a real mountain of trash by one single family.

Sounds like more warranty FUD..... Otherwise, why are my socket 775 motherboards still going?

That would mean all my things would be at a landfill right now!
Old PCs are not useless for everyone! It may become useless for high end users, so thats why they are free in order to sell theyr old PCs and PC parts to many of the "poor" mainstream users who are not in high performance demand but very sensitive to the price of theyr hardware.

I know many PC owners who are giving away theyr old hardware for free to other "needy" people without a proper PC and they may be very glad that they dont need to buy a own hardware because simply not affordable to them. So, heaving a very high lifetime doesnt mean its not useful, even when it comes to PC parts. Countless years ago, when i was very young and a poor teen i had no money in order to buy a own PC but i was already owning several PCs. Why? I got them for free from other PC owners who was giving away theyr PC for free, because they was getting a new PC for themself. I was glad because i had no other chance to get a PC and i was able to execute many stuff using those dated PCs, even gaming was possible... but had to use low quality settings of course. So those old PCs who wasnt prematurely dying was able to be of use... even long time after the warranty has ended.

Some aged PCs may not be usable as a "high performance" hardware anymore but there is a lot of other functions they are still able to be used for. HTPC and many other PCs with lower performance demand.

I only expect anything to last as long as the warranty. Past that it is just an added bonus.
Especially if it is an item that I use heavily.
I expect your food to life just as long as your gentech-patent warranty is valid, past that time-line its just a added bonus... but outside warranty is outside warranty, excuse me! Have a nice time becoming hungry and the license will be sent to you any time soon, of course "soon" is a relative term with the meaning of "suitable for economy". Regarding the "clean water warranty", im sorry, that warranty has ended and will never be renewed, although "dirt water sickness" can be cured by free vaccinations (ok they are able to damage your immune system, not big of a trade off... ).

Everyone unable to notice what direction the stuff is heading... well sorry.
 
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Mass manufacturers use cheap parts, period. I don't think they plan obsolescence. They know they're cheap, and they know they have a support center. Sometimes the product won't make it beyond the warranty, sometimes it will. The majority of parts used are very, very cheap in price and quality. The bottom line is profitability at the end of the fiscal quarter.

Having said that, if you want a quality product, you have to pay for it. The "specialty" products cost more, but they use quality parts that last much longer, and their support services are second to none. It's not uncommon to have a support person, in the event you ever need to talk to one, pass the phone off to an engineer because the engineer cares about his product and design. Onkyo is no longer a "high end" manufacturer.

Receivers are like laptops. Lots of features & good performance, but they will become obsolete or fail fairly quickly. Specialty electronics (pre-amps & amps) are like high performance desktops: quality parts, fantastic performance, and they'll likely last much, much longer.

I had a 16-year old Sony receiver fail for the 3rd time. I finally threw it in the trash, although it could have been repaired again. Kind of sad, as I still liked it and it did the job I wanted it to do.
 
Tell me a "high end" manufacturer able to provide the same stuff a Onkyo receiver is able to execute but with much higher quality! Problem is i dont know them... its like the market of true high end is almost wiped out. Yamaha, Denon or whatever, its all the same junk nowadays, it seems. Do you think they can provide more quality, and if you think that way, tell me or show me a proof.

And Sony.. no way.. really... i guess almost any part of Sony is China ware, kinda same such as Onkyo nowadays, they stopped to be a true quality manufacturer long time ago.

If you find such a offer i buy it... out of question, it simply need to have same capability such as my old "failed" Onkyo. Because it got the stuff i need for my new PC and console lifestyle setup, so i can link it all together in one single "interface", of which NAS is playing another important part (but thats not a issue, and i guess NAS is way higher endurance).
 
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Tell me a "high end" manufacturer able to provide the same stuff a Onkyo receiver is able to execute but with much higher quality!

What do you need the "stuff" to do? Equipment is made to be simple, such as basic amplification, or all the way up complex home theater/networking applications. I see you need to be able to connect everything together. Do you need DSP and how many audio channels do you need? 2.1, 5.1, 7.1., 9.1, etc.

You might go to Emotiva's website. They have reasonably priced equipment and people seem to like them pretty well. I will look for some other gear you might be interested in. I agree that you should get what you pay for, and that it should last decades & possibly your lifetime with a bit of maintenance from time to time if you treat it right (caps don't last forever). High end is alive and well!

https://emotiva.com/
 
Here's a list of a few quality receivers:

Anthem MRX 710

Rotel RSX-1562, Owners manual PDF

McIntosh MAC 6700

An alternative with increased connectivity is the home theater pre-amp (requires amplification and a fat wallet):

McIntosh MC 151

NAD T 787

It's beginning to get difficult to find top quality receivers. I would even toss in Yamaha's top-end receivers. I've used them before and they are of much better quality than the general lines. At this price point though, it's better to go separates for quality as opposed to swiss army knife receivers. You might also consider using your PC as the hub and add amplifiers. There several options to go that route, albeit not quite as convenient.
 
What do you need the "stuff" to do? Equipment is made to be simple, such as basic amplification, or all the way up complex home theater/networking applications. I see you need to be able to connect everything together. Do you need DSP and how many audio channels do you need? 2.1, 5.1, 7.1., 9.1, etc.


https://emotiva.com/
7.1 channel, capability same such as my old Onkyo NR 609. So i pretty much need everything, HDMI too.

Well so far the following could be interesting:

Emotiva XMC-1 https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/coming-soon-xmc-1
Cost, almost 2k Dollar, worth it? Well, in term all CAPs max quality and all parts of finest build including AV HDMI support (same such as Onkyo) yes... in term i can put my hands on, may be hard to get that stuff in my country. More expensive than my TV (1.5k Dollar) but in term i get a true audio equipment... i will sweat blood and give all i have. Not much pictures so far because its a product not even released yet, but it seems to be full of tantalum CAPs. Nothing will last forever but it may have a expected lifetime of 10 years at 24/7 use, thats 4 times higher than a mainstream trash device. When i have to buy 4 Onkyos in same timeline... it will cost the same, and i even have a sound worse than that. So is it worth it, hell yes! Problem is that most people are lacking a long term view! But even if the device may "only" last 5 years i would be fine... its still 2 times the lifetime of a mainstream trash device but 2 times the cost of 2 Onkyos and 2 times better sound, it would still be the better deal, crazy but true. Good thing is, its already supporting 4k2k resolution, and in the next 10-20 years i think no one will have a higher TV resolution (i use HDTV for all the stuff). Currently im still on 1080P because the only technology with sufficient response time would be a true OLED, but that technology is still immature... takes another 5 year for "switching" to the 4k2k TV. Up to that point i use a plasma, that is in my mind supreme to any other tech as long as OLED is immature.


Regarding the Anthem, well no, so far that brand is unable to be impressive, its a bit above Onkyo but not true high end.

The Macintosh is Stereo only, i dont say its bad, that sound may probably beat all the 7.1 channel receiver by miles, but it wont support any of the 7.1 stuff a movie for example is providing, its simply a raw audiophile device for the lovers of the "good old legendary sound". So as a music-only device surely outstanding but it lacks the connectivity and utility of "new age" devices and i somehow find it useful to be able to connect everything the easy way. If i am looking for a music-only device... sure Mac is a special option, but thats not the case. Im not a music-only lover but more in search for a overall connectivity and allround device, in order to process and connect all audio and video together in one single spot, and with outstanding sound and lifetime, a good all in one solution, without to much "workaround". Simply the stuff a usual AV receiver is capable of. But in term Macintosh is able to give me a good allround solution... sure. May be difficult, in order for max compatibility it may require a DSP and 4 times a Macintosh Amplifier, so the DSP can calculate the sound of 4 different amplifier in order to create a true "7.1 channel" out of 4 stereo amplifiers, thats simply impossible "the easy and affordable way". Im clearly not wealthy enough so i pass on such options, but everything would be doable sure... just needs the required bucks. My personal limit is 2k $ (thats what i call "affordable", without speakers of course), it should be suitable for proper sound without the hassle of short lifetime and permannently burning devices every 2.5 years.

Yamah cant say much so far... im checking 1000 trash reviews, reviewing trash in order to say trash, and hopefully one review without trash.

Regarding the RX777 of Yamaha someone said:
A very disappointing receiver! It has plenty of oomph in the low end, but lacks any form of "natural sound" that Yamaha used to have. Voices and instruments sound harsh and have a sharp edge. All in all , just unpleasant to me... and if listening to music isn't pleasant..... I'd rather listen to the sweet sound of silence. BTW, I'm no audiophile ..... but I'm not DEAF either :) Source: http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/a-v-receivers/yamaha/rx-777/prd_127019_2718crx.aspx

But the thing that makes me worry the most is the fact that i actually do believe it... i guess the mainstream market nowadays is hogged by countless "oomph devices" that will die short time after end of warranty period, and with endless functionality in order to connect, even 3D 4k2k HDMI (and a WIFI no one needs), but the audio capability is close to none compared to a "true amplifier". Another shocking thing is that 95% of all reviews are telling good stuff but the opposite is actually the case.


So im certain i will be cracking my head in search of a "affordable" and solid device. I certainly know all the connection capability the receivers got, but not a single word about the capability able to survive (no, thats just a added bonus, not important at all) and how much quality of the internal parts? But i guess no one wants to know? Guess anything added outside warranty is just a added bonus and no one need to know? Congratulations, the users was now able to break the entire quality-market by a poisonous mentality.

Well nope... no one need to know quality, its just a added bonus outside a warranty period... every time i add that line it makes me enrage, its crazy.

Just no one should forget: Everything that is living outside warranty period is just added bonus but there is no need to continue living, just no reason to live anymore because its just an added bonus.
 
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As I glance over at my Onkyo receiver, I get pangs of sadness reading this thread lol.

I can't imagine the Emotiva having "twice as good of sound", thats probably more on your speakers than anything. That said, I would definitely pay more for a 10 year warrantied item than a 2 year. Never heard anyone say an onkyo sounds like crap either... I think your residual anger is clouding that assessment honestly, BUT thats completely subjective I suppose.

Good luck with your purchase, I'd like to hear what you have.
 
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