Aqauarium water chiller?

Hey guys,

I wanted to ask if anyone has tried using one of these systems to cool water?

I am considering a small loop, with a 120mm rad and then running the water threw one of these chillers, that claim to be able to cool down to 10 degrees.

The basic idea being, after the CPU, then into res/pump, then 120mm rad and then a water chiller to try and drop the temp a bit more before it back to the CPU.

Why bother with the radiator at all then? Just run it through the chiller?

+1 rads are not needed for chillers. You'll need to probably insulate the blocks and tubing. 10c will cause condensation even in Denmark, unless you have the PC outside...in the winter.

Correct. I would've have used chillers but worries me the most is the condensation. Just one little missed spot and bazaam.

For 600 or 700 Euros you can get a Lil Devil Phase cooler that holds 200w at -30c. Pardon me. I don't know if Denmark uses Euros or not. Much easier to insulate the CPU.

Possible condensation issues aside ... the problem with the (Hailea) aquarium chillers repurposed for PC/CPU cooling is that they are used wrong.

They are used to replace the radiator in a loop... which is the wrong approach, because then you'll be using a little mass of water which will fluctuate a lot in temps, so the compressor of these things has to kick in all the time... and these things are not exactly silent. Not to mention the smaller versions will wear/burn themselves out in no time.

Yeah, but there is this 20db model, thats not loud

No, its not loud, unfortunately it also not very powerful. And if you want to cool more as an O/C CPU, you need to go to the bigger models.... way bigger.. maybe upto the model where the manufacturer himself says.. "best used in another room"

Does that mean leaving the radiator IN the loop?

Not really, but a bypass valve can be used.

In any case "Pietro", what you're thinking of doesn't work.. because that is not how watercooling (or for that matter most cooling) works.
You water rushes through the loop at 1-1.5 GPM... it does not spend enough time in the cooler to drop significally.

Say that your CPU produces 100 Watts , say 50°C , say that the cooler has a cooling capacity of 200 Watts. What is the temp of the water when it leaves the cpu block? What is the watertemp when it leaves the cooler?

If you want an easy (but overpriced) solution for CPU cooling only: KOOLANCE EXC-800 http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_373&products_id=38582

However, the aquarium cooler is an very nice option IF used correctly.

Do you want a few examples how it could be done?

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You could simply use a larger reservoir for that rollie. That said, the amount of water is negligible as long as the cooler had enough surface area and temperature difference...

Ah, but the chiller does NOT have enough surface (and not enough Delta) in "flow-through" mode.
So yes, a larger reservoir is needed... ideally a very large reservoir thus giving you a large thermal buffer.
And that is how these aquariumchillers need to be used.

But with a larger reservoir it'll still get heated up after X time.

You want the radiator there, IMO, so the chiller only has to do minimal work.

ATMINSIDE said:

But with a larger reservoir it'll still get heated up after X time.

You want the radiator there, IMO, so the chiller only has to do minimal work.

Click to expand...

I doesn't work that way.

Watercooling works in a (closed) loop : add 2°C to the loop at the heatload, shave off 2°C at the radiator... addition/substraction in small (but lots) of increments.

NOT dump 60°C into the loop at the CPU, dissipate 60°C at the radiator at every circulation. That is physically impossible, at any given time you have maybe 2ml water in "contact with the CPU" for about 1 maybe 2 seconds... if very very very lucky in those 2 seconds those 2ml can "absorb" 2°C

And its very much the same at the radiator side... only there it is worse because air is very very very bad at "absorbing" heat


The only thing the radiator will do is bring the loop faster to ambient (and try to keep it there)... thus negating the work of the chiller.

What you want is the chiller being powered on whether the PC is or not. That way the chiller can bring the liquid in the big (insulated 20 gallon) reservoir down to the desired temp - for example 10°C below ambient (but still above dew point). The chiller will switch on/off as required to maintain that target.

When you switch on the PC, you will pump "heat" into the chilled water running through your blocks and the loop temp will start to rise... since we are talking a large body of water, it will take a while. Once the water reaches the threshold set, the chiller will kick back trying to lower the temps.

And this is where it all comes down to: If you have dimensioned everything correctly, for example the idle or light load of the PC is LESS as the cooling capacity of the chiller.... then it takes a very very long time before the chiller kicks in (if ever)
Under heavy load the loop temp will rise faster and the chiller will have to kick in eventually... but with a large mass of water... this will take a while. Once it kicks in, this is your signal to pause/exit the game, take a break, a leak, goto bed or goto work.

Dimension for time "X"
(it takes a while to rise the temp of Lake Michigan with 1°C by peeing in it every hour)


Or you could get a "bigger" chiller that can handle the full load,... you'll just need less reservoir, more money and more sound dampening.

And yes.. this system is hardly "portable" , so no lan parties

EDIT: some numbers

Say that you have a well insulated reservoir (loft tank) of 90 liters , which the chiller kept at 20°C. You switch on the PC which contains an O/C CPU and a couple of R9s.. say good for an heatload of 500 Watts.
It would take about EIGHT hours before the water in the tank/loop reaches 60°C. And about 1 hr before loop temp gets to 25°c
60°C is still well in the safety zone for the GPU's , but comes close to throttling the CPU (depends on make/model/setting).
That's quite an uninterrupted gaming session. At my age this would require to have a few empty bottles ready next to my desk.

Also, since the chiller will kick in at some point, it would take more as 8 hrs to reach 60°C.
And with a bigger tank and a lower starting temp.. you'ld have even more time.

But yes, again still not very portable

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RnRollie said:

The only thing the radiator will do is bring the loop faster to ambient (and try to keep it there)... thus negating the work of the chiller.

Click to expand...

Hadn't thought about the radiator fighting the chiller... I should have my coffee BEFORE posting

This was just an idea, since i am building a benching rig, this is in no means an everyday thing.

Primary & Secondary loop setup, with a PlateHX to separate the chilled from the normal loop

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Rollie is absolutely right on how aquarium chillers are designed to work. They use the water volume as a buffer so the chiller isn't running constantly. Use a very large reservoir (many gallons) and you may get somewhere efficiently.

Cheers.

Even better, you can drop the chiller completely. Invite a few friends over, hand them a shovel and have them dig a big & deep enough hole for a 300 gallon or bigger tank

Fill up, use sump pump + plateHX and you've got a reservoir which should maintain between 12 & 16 °C year round

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Well said Rollie.

Aside from this, are you a brit?

That should be a capital B.

GTXJackBauer said:

Well said Rollie.

Aside from this, are you a brit?

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Nope, but i've lived & worked there long enough to call it "my adoptive country".
And i've shed enough skin & blood to have earned the right to take the p*ss out of Blighty as if i were a full (in)bred citizen.

However, i've moved on now (as it became obvious i'll never get to sh*g Billie Piper); So, i'm no longer living in UK anymore. Canuck country and/or the Land of Oz (downunder) are still on the list of future (temporary) settlements, don't know when that 'll happen thou (its quite a long swim), sometime in the next 3-5 years i expect.


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RnRollie said:

Nope, but i've lived & worked there long enough to call it "my adoptive country".
And i've shed enough skin & blood to have earned the right to take the p*ss out of Blighty as if i were a full (in)bred citizen.

However, i've moved on now (as it became obvious i'll never get to sh*g Billie Piper); So, i'm no longer living in UK anymore. Canuck country and/or the Land of Oz (downunder) are still on the list of future (temporary) settlements, don't know when that 'll happen thou (its quite a long swim), sometime in the next 3-5 years i expect.


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Click to expand...

Well in that case, common on over to the states.

GTXJackBauer said:

Well in that case, common on over to the states.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that'll be something... but after the visa expires the options become rather limited to:
-win the green card lottery
-become an illegal immigrant
-find a sponsor (had job offers before, but none of them wanted to go through the work visa sponsorship )
-marry a big bottomed yank damzel
-become a hollywood star
-save the prez from an assasination attempt (in pure hollywood hero style -including awsome big explosion in the background)
-become a notorious serial killer

I wouldn't mind the states for a couple of years, but after that, i'ld like to retire in a country that has some form of social security -purely on principle, wether i need it or not. So that would mean NOT being a geriatric in Florida but rather a spry elderly person amongst your northerly commonwealth neighbours

Either way, i'ld like to retire as far away from humanity as possible (while still having internet access)

Unless of course the zombocalypse happens, in THAT case... an armoury a cabin in Montana will be it , feel free to drop by (bring plenty of rations/ammo as currency)