Wow, the first DDR4 memory stinks

Daddyjaxx · Sep 10, 2014

2400 MHz with 15 CAS with a max of 32GB. That's 1/3 slower CAS than my DDR3 2400 @ CAS10. OK, it only runs at 1.2v instead of 1.65. If I remember correctly, my first DDR3 was 1600Mhz at CAS 8 or so. Are they planning on coming out with 16GB DDR3 sticks? If not, why this BIOS?

Woomack · Sep 11, 2014

There will be 16GB sticks for sure. Maybe even 32GB in the future. Right now available are only 16GB+ in ECC version and for these you need Xeon CPU. Maybe you make it work without Xeons on some boards.

DDR4 have potential but manufacturers are using high timings for these first kits. I bet that in time we will see kits at tighter timings and higher clocks that will use similar IC. Look at my Crucial 2133 C15 32GB memory thread -> http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...cial-4x8GB-DDR4-2133-CL15-1-2V-CT4K8G4DFD8213
This memory can make 3000 CL14 or something like 2800 CL12. Even most expensive kits are not running at similar timings and this is the cheapest available series.

ATMINSIDE · Sep 11, 2014

Woomack, I believe he's asking if he can get 16GB DDR3 sticks. I don't think 32GB DDR3 is possible on a single stick, but I could be wrong on that.
As far as I know the only 16GB DDR3 is server grade RAM, which would mean the RIVBE would need ECC support.

Anyway, Jaxx, you're comparing high end DDR3 to low end DDR4. Of course it's going to "stink".
Look at some of the 3000MHz CL15 sticks. They'll match (if not better) your 2400MHz sticks. While having higher density and lower voltage.

Woomack · Sep 11, 2014

There are brands that are selling 16GB DDR3 non ECC modules but it will be hard to get them and I don't think that all boards will support modules like that. There was a thread that memory like this was tested on AMD and it was working. Some X79 boards have 128GB support since release. Point is that there was no memory like that till this year so they simply couldn't test it.

With DDR4 I think it's more about memory controller and problems with BIOS than low performance of DDR4 modules. You can set exactly the same clocks and timings on DDR3 and DDR4 ( that I actually tested in my thread ) and DDR3 will be still faster even though CPU is slower in nearly everything and Haswell-E cache is twice as fast as Ivy Bridge-E.

So far memory manufacturers are proud that their memory is reaching 3333 clock but none of them can say that their memory has the highest performance at this clock.

ATMINSIDE · Sep 11, 2014

Ah, I hadn't seen those sticks. Interesting.

Just like any other technology we see, improvements in implementation go a long way.

I agree. Fastest speed isn't always best. That CL15 DDR4-3000 kit from G.SKILL is the best in my eyes.

Woomack · Sep 11, 2014

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7742/im-intelligent-memory-to-release-16gb-unregistered-ddr3-modules
Here is the news about unregistered modules , later was info about non-ecc but I don't remember if I saw any in stores. X79 should support ECC but unregistered modules. The same on Z87/Z97 I was running some of these but in 4GB config. All of these higher density modules are low speed and not every mobo will support them.

Daddyjaxx · Sep 11, 2014

Ah, the 16 GB DDR3 is unregistered memory. Google is my friend. It's slow, so I'll settle for 64GB of what I have, mainly for a 32 GB RAM drive. Nothing like read/write speeds of 7000 MB/s. I'll put my games on it. I just don't know how long it will take to save back to a drive when shutting down. To make it easy, I'll only put the games that I am currently playing. Of course you need to leave them on a physical drive if your computer goes poof and shuts off.

My UPS works fine until I run all three GPU's at full speed. A 900w UPS can't handle 1250w.

The 5xxx series are slil socket 2011, okay 3, but the DDR4 memory is 288 pin instead of 240. If they made the DDR4 240 pin as well. all it would take is a BIOS upgrade instead of a new motherboard, CPU, and RAM. People may upgrade CPU and RAM more likely than a motherboard too. I'm sure the new X99 boards have the newest tech like SATA Express too. I haven't looked at them. but what's this about them catching on fire? Are we back to the 2600K board recalls?

EarthDog · Sep 11, 2014

So, you are using 1250w with only 3 250w cards at stock speeds? What is giving you that reading? Seems off.

Daddyjaxx · Sep 11, 2014

Corsair link and the UPS itself. With my CPU running at turbo speeds now due to an online backup and the GPU's at stock, it's pulling 456w. 456w + 750w = 1200w

EarthDog · Sep 11, 2014

Doing a backup isn't helpful to know the cpu load. Also, all your gpus are using juice sitting there so adding 750w to that 476w value in the first place would not be accurate. Try this... And mind you, these values are full load on EVERYTHING:

750w(gpus) + 140w(cpu) + 150w(board/mem/fans/pump ETC) = 1040w.

That would be with everything running 100% (stress testing .. not gaming etc)

If that is the load you had on it, I would believe it!

Daddyjaxx · Sep 11, 2014

Yes, the online backup is set to run the CPU at 100% when idle. My pumps alone are 72 watts (18 x 4) and 48 (20 x .2 amp each) for the fans. This is the draw with everything at idle and the CPU at 1200 Mhz.

cyberfish · Sep 11, 2014

Daddyjaxx said:
Ah, the 16 GB DDR3 is unregistered memory. Google is my friend. It's slow, so I'll settle for 64GB of what I have, mainly for a 32 GB RAM drive. Nothing like read/write speeds of 7000 MB/s. I'll put my games on it. I just don't know how long it will take to save back to a drive when shutting down. To make it easy, I'll only put the games that I am currently playing. Of course you need to leave them on a physical drive if your computer goes poof and shuts off.

My UPS works fine until I run all three GPU's at full speed. A 900w UPS can't handle 1250w.

The 5xxx series are slil socket 2011, okay 3, but the DDR4 memory is 288 pin instead of 240. If they made the DDR4 240 pin as well. all it would take is a BIOS upgrade instead of a new motherboard, CPU, and RAM. People may upgrade CPU and RAM more likely than a motherboard too. I'm sure the new X99 boards have the newest tech like SATA Express too. I haven't looked at them. but what's this about them catching on fire? Are we back to the 2600K board recalls?

Even if they made it 240 pins, it would still take much more than a BIOS upgrade.

The memory transceivers in the CPUs are specific to RAM technology, and that's in hardware, so no BIOS upgrade can fix that. BIOS code is still code that's run by the CPU. At DRAM signalling rates, most things would have to be done in pure hardware to be fast enough.

There's a new power rail that needs to be supplied by the motherboard, and different voltages on existing rails, as well as probably different board termination and signal integrity/impedance requirements, etc.

You would have to upgrade at least the board and CPU either way.

Wow, the first DDR4 memory stinks

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