Windows 10 - Coming to a device near you

WMC or some version of it will be available, only question is if just not available yet because this is stripped down version for testing, or whether it will com as some "app" or part of upgrade you have to buy. They made it clear, the final version will have much more on it, this is just core testing, so wouldnt surprise me for it to just appear later with one of the updates.

I loaded windows 10 on my older intel 530 SSD, so can boot to 7 or 10. 10 is very much like windows 7, start menu back, boots to desktop, control panel and controls very similar. And the Taskbar looks very customizable for dealing with apps or getting them out of the way. Same easy keyboard/mouse navigation as 7.

10, like 7, is a GUI designed for a desktop, instead of microsofts W8 lab rat experiment to determine how many people would use a touchscreen phone interface on a desktop computer.

rge said:

10, like 7, is a GUI designed for a desktop, instead of microsofts W8 lab rat experiment to determine how many people would use a touchscreen phone interface on a desktop computer.

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I see this said constantly. Are we talking about the same OS here??

10 is basically 8 with the start menu in a different location. I'm not sure why people that hated 8 are suddenly rejoicing.

thideras said:

I see this said constantly. Are we talking about the same OS here??

10 is basically 8 with the start menu in a different location. I'm not sure why people that hated 8 are suddenly rejoicing.

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Must not be. Because windows 10 on my desktop is not like windows 8 on my wifes laptop with a start menu in a different location. Windows 8 boots to an app screen for a touch interface best suited for a smartphone (a poorly designed one). Scroll over to hard on windows 8 and some crap comes pops up, just like on a (poorly designed) smartphone. want to use a mouse to navigate, sorry no mouse on smartphones so ms didnt really think much about usability with it.

I could go on, but bottom line some like windows 8, judging by sales most dont, Im in the latter category, you are in the former. Trust me, no chance we will agree on anything about 8. Other than I hate it, and you dont. I wont even use win8 on a laptop unless my wife is using the macbook air and I am on a trip and have to use the crappy portable, ie wind 8 laptop. I would put 7 on it, but for trips I will deal with a poorly designed gui.

thideras said:

10 is basically 8 with the start menu in a different location. I'm not sure why people that hated 8 are suddenly rejoicing.

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We've had an unbelievable amount of threads at overclockers where a person is *livid* with Windows 8.
Then we gently suggest installing Classic Shell. Then a dozen more posts of the same person angrily arguing against Windows 8, "Classic Shell and all."

Then FINALLY they actually install Classic Shell, they go oh!, then the Windows 8 hating posts abruptly end.


Perhaps he meant Windows 10 = Windows 8+Classic Shell with Charms option disabled.

I have 8 Windows 7 COAs I got while in college. I don't really have any incentive to upgrade unless it comes on a future laptop or tablet I buy. Wife's laptop has 8.1 installed. I eventually just installed a program to restore the traditional start button and start menu. I don't play around on computers like I used to. It's more of a tool than a toy to me.

You're right. But for people having a need to make a purchase, things may be different, and that's who we're talking about.


But hey, this "news" story just broke on http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...eview-has-permission-to-watch-your-every-move

When downloading Windows 10, you agree to:

"We may collect information about your device and applications and use it for purposes such as determining or improving compatibility" and "use voice input features like speech-to-text, we may collect voice information and use it for purposes such as improving speech processing."

In other words, Windows can collect your voice and anything you say, which is quite intrusive.

But we're only just getting started. The killer statement says, "If you open a file, we may collect information about the file, the application used to open the file, and how long it takes any use [of] it for purposes such as improving performance, or [if you] enter text, we may collect typed characters, we may collect typed characters and use them for purposes such as improving autocomplete and spellcheck features."

In other words, in effect, you are giving permission for Microsoft to screen your files, and in effect keylog your keyboard input. Renowned Windows blogger Mary Jo Foley recently said, "I've heard Microsoft built a new real-time telemetry system codenamed 'Asimov' (yes, another Halo-influenced codename) that lets the OS team see in near real-time what's happening on users' machines."

It certainly appears that she is right. We've contacted Microsoft for comment and will update this story as soon as Redmond is awake. In the meantime, think twice before you download Windows 10. You're promising a lot.

I don't feel like I have anything Microsoft would want lol

None of that intrusive microsoft tracking stuff occurs unless you hit the default install, though many will do just that. If you hit custom install, then you get individually asked about those 7 or 8 intrusive tracking items, that no one in their right mind would allow....unless you hit the default install not knowing what you were agreeing to. I opted out of all the tracking nonsense, and opted out of even signing into microsoft, and my ip address is not static, so no issues here.

However, Im thinking MS may have to tone those down, or everyone will need to get the word out to NOT do the default install. But I agree, I was like wtf reading some of those check list items as I opted out of every one of them. I was thinking some of them might be just to help improve beta, though some may be testing the waters to see what people will allow.

I hope it wont be another metro... the metro was a real mess and not even classic shell was removing the issue properly, there was still occasional flickering and such. Its very difficult to remove such a "feature" from a system completly when it is basically merged into the system such as the bricks from a wall. Options for disabling it? So far just a huge bunch of empty words... words without power.

Besides: I'm not against innovations, but some innovations are good and other are simply only making matter worse, at least on desktop machines. I rather would enjoy technical innovations not related to interface, because those so called interface innovations only seems to make the tablet, laptop and smartphone users happy. "Only" is a relative term because the margin of that kind of users is increasing every year. What about the ones not in love of those kind of device able to fit inside bags and pockets? Well... bad luck it seems, perhaps a democratic decision and a money matter too. I really dont know why i need to travel all the time and if i do i usually enjoy not to have a computer with me because i would be in the middle of the wild and thats for a good reason because i want to shut down for a while! Im very computer friendly but even me is having the nowadays rare opinion that to much computer and zero shutdown isnt good for health. Some shutdown can be very healthy, reduce stress and the risk of burnout, so im glad when there isnt a computer with me 24/7... yes those words are coming from a geek with a huge bunch of computers.

Of course there is other issues: Systems that wont even run anymore even after paying hard cash, there is a email needed and personal data too... basically a account based system but not every user is in need or demand of a account based system, thats another "new era portable sickness", im sorry to say. The email functions was so easy by using WIN 7 but WIN 8.1 completely messed up, with the need of several accounts, its the stuff no desktop user truly is in need, and if so... it could be offered as an option, not forced the hard way. WIN 8.1 was one huge bag of forced demand in order to run even the most basic matter and im not sure if WIN 10 would be any different. WIN 8.1 was intended to be a all purpose system with high custom but ultimately it was one of the WIN with worst custom ever made... not really user friendly at all, but im sure the tablet users may shout at me for saying that. Probably telling me that the apps are so awesome... im almost becoming sick just by hearing the word "apps"... oh dear what have we done... Is it the soul of a computer or the soul of a human that cant do a single thing anymore without "an app"? I dunno...

Regarding tracking stuff... yes its bad stuff but not uncommon, MS was trying the stuff several times already in the past. Everyone want to spy the users out... thats the industrys and nations interest. Although i kinda have to smile when i think about the results they may be able to achieve by spying me out. Im a being that complicated i cant even understand myself... and other beings got as good as zero chance even to read a slight bit of my personal signature. I feel sorry for all the people trying to track me and analyze data... it must be really hard work, perhaps it may be easyer trying to spy out an alien.

Question only is... can WIN 10 make a real difference?

Windows 10 will make a difference... on company computers they didn't allow you to install Classic Shell on.


May I ask what flickering on Classic Shell?
I fully intend to use Classic Shell on Windows 10, simply because I can install whichever Start Button I want, whichever Start Menu I want, all fully customizable.
Classic Shell gives me none of Metro on Windows 8 -- yet ALL of metro with just a SHIFT+CLICK and I'm inside full Metro. Simply pressing ESCAPE I am inside Windows 7 look without any METRO to speak of, have you disabled Charms?

...It's not necessary to use any Apps on Windows 8, you can stay inside Classic Shell Windows 7 looking Windows 8 and *only* use Windows 7 programs.
SHIFT+CLICK and you can use Apps as an option, but you don't EVER have to press SHIFT+CLICK and thus NEVER see Metro in Windows 8, ever.


As for your other points about using Windows 8 without giving out your email, options are hidden, in the corner, but they are there to NOT give anyone any email and use Windows 8 without an account, any account.

Im not sure about those settings, i cant check now because i was just trying to fix someones laptop using classic shell but my computers are running on WIN 7 still. The only PC using 8.1 is a very small browsing PC but its only used occasionally, so the other people who want to go inside net dont need to use the "holy cow", my very own personal PC... so i didnt mess nor bother with (yes i was lazy...).

Same for windows 10, you can opt out of everything, as long as you do custom install.

Also, no metro/smartphone interface on windows 10, looks just like windows 7 gui desktop with start button and quick links same place with updated content. You wont need any 3rd party programs like classic shell with windows 10 if you like windows 7 gui, unless you just like classic shell.

But windows 10 is definitely beta, cpuz and hwmonitor give erroneous info and mostly no info, though steam and all my games, sound, graphics work perfectly. But wont use this as primary, except for gaming and surfing web, havent installed excel word yet, but those probably work fine since ms.

The thing is, Microsoft itself could have completely rescued Windows 8 without removing ANY Metro features and keeping the minority of techies who like Metro100% happy.
All they had to do is give Classic Shell as an option.

Windows 7 percentage of users would have plummeted, because Classic Shell removes all Metro but only as an option. It has a single click Metro switch. There is no difference between Windows 7 and [Windows 8 + Classic Shell] except for

ninjacore said:

Same, but faster

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yep, if ms had allowed customization to suit preference without use of 3rd party software I would have updated to 8, but im not buying 8 just to install 3rd party programs to get it back to 7.

I think they were going to do that with 8.2 at one point, but so close to next release, I guess ms figured it would be a selling point for 10. 10 default is gui just like 7, but lots of start menu and startup customization is possible, pic is just 10 default with startup clicked and clicked/hovered on power button. And those pic icons for apps/mail etc you can change or unpin, ie get rid of.

rge said:

Also, no metro/smartphone interface on windows 10, looks just like windows 7 gui desktop with start button and quick links same place with updated content.

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So basically, they are making the same mistake in reverse now? They took out out touch screen features instead of keeping them as am option, just like they took out Start Button / Start Menu instead of keeping them as an option?


So Classic Shell will be renamed to Classic Metro Shell

There is a toggle button at bottom of start menu, which gives you all apps. There is also a customization menu that allows you customize many things on start up, so im guessing you can make it look either way, not sure yet havent played with it enough. You can expand that metro looking thing as large as you want, have it start different ways, or in my case, delete that metro looking thing like this:

Also like that you can both right and left click on the start button and pull up different menus, the new right click menu with all the control panel, device manager, comp, etc is thinking like a desktop user instead of a smartphone user.

I think I might like this better. Haven't had a chance to check everything, but I have it installed on 2 of 3 machines and it seams to behave well.

Too early to really test performance yet, but doing it anyways....

3dmark firestrike extreme scores for win7 and win10 were the same within margin of error, 344.11 drivers for both, and my 24/7 settings 4970k at 4.8, gtx titan core 1162.
[http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/4270178 win7, 4.8ghz 4790k, 1162 titan core = 5372 score
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/4270674 win10 4.8ghz 4790k, 1162 titan core = 5396 score

However, 3dmark 11, 300 points less with windows 10....? windows 10 not optimized with older direct x 9, etc graphics, also same issue in pcmark8.
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8799281 win7, 4.8ghz 4790k, 1162 titan core = 15399 score
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8799324 win10 4.8ghz 4790k, 1162 titan core = 15081 score

In PCmark8 with both 10 and 7, most tests showed very similar performance between 7 and 10, 10 very slightly faster in some things though probably just error of repeatability, but web browsing and direct x 9 graphics caused overall score for win 10 to be lower.

Have to just wait until 10 matures more to test, but looks like they need to optimize 10 with older direct x drivers/graphics.

And if someone actually likes windows 8 smartphone OS start screen, you can configure windows 10 to look like 8 via properties, start menu, uncheck first box, then looks like below, also can turn charms thing on/off. Again, 10 is what 8 should have been, customizable and defaults to desktop gui.