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Infinite66

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Jun 27, 2012
What's up everyone? My trainer at the gym is looking to go and make his own gym. He is in need of a database and network system to run the gym. This setup would be responsible for keeping and updating a list of things such as gym memberships, members names, addresses, paid or unpaid subscription, etc.

The catch is he wants 3 computers to be able to do this from. So I've been rolling ideas around in my head. So far I've come up with the following.

1 central server running windows server 2008 r2. File server and network printer roles installed. Administration account access only, password protected of course

3 other computers. Probably amd a series itx builds. I was thinking of having these itx builds be very light on the hardware. Dual cores, 4gb ram, 120gb ssds so everything is snappy. All running windows 7.

I would have the 3 computers all have the information from the server be mapped as a network drive using 3 separate accounts and passwords. All with limited rights amd only specific folders for them to access.

As for the database itself, keeping the needs he has in mind I mentioned earlier, would several excel spreadsheets imported into an access database be sufficient? All changes made to the access file from any 1 of the "terminals" would auto update for the other terminals right? Unless I'm thinking about this wrong.

As for how they're connected, I am leaning towards hardwire, but if that's not possible, a really good wireless router with a 3rd party firewall and turning off wifi broadcast.

The server would have the primary drive being auto backed up to a backup drive.

To give some insight into my expertise, I'm definitely not a beginner when it comes to building a pc, and I know enough to hook up my own file server in my house using a hardwire setup and 5 port switch. I would have to look into the excel/access route some more, but am I wrong to think this would this simple?

Input is greatly appreciated.
 
What's the budget for the entire setup? Linux machines (for the server, anyway) with apache and MySQL might be a better fit if you have a tight budget and are willing to learn a little sql and web coding for a frontend. If budget is a bit bigger, then Windows and Access would probably fit the bill. You can skip Excel and create forms in Access for data entry and reporting. A better solution, but higher cost and higher learning curve, would be SQL Server (but it's probably overkill for his needs). Beyond that, some off-the-shelf software specifically designed for small businesses could be a viable option.

For the main server, I'd recommend buying an actual server from a reputable vendor (Lenovo, for example) that comes with onsite warranty. For the remote terminals, you can build those yourself and be the IT support if you want. Given the type of data that will be stored in the database, it's extremely important that you put just as much thought into physical security and redundancy that you do into everything else. Be sure he invests in quality hardware, backups (both onsite and offsite, encrypted, if possible), and a good UPS/battery backup to run it all. The scope of planning infrastructure in a commercial setting is a lot different than your typical home setting, even if it is just a small gym.

What's the nature of your involvement with the project? Are you just giving him ideas as a friend, are you going to build it for him, are you going to be responsible for it, are you going to be compensated for it?
 
pcgamer4life said:
What's the budget for the entire setup? Linux machines (for the server, anyway) with apache and MySQL might be a better fit if you have a tight budget and are willing to learn a little sql and web coding for a frontend. If budget is a bit bigger, then Windows and Access would probably fit the bill. You can skip Excel and create forms in Access for data entry and reporting. A better solution, but higher cost and higher learning curve, would be SQL Server (but it's probably overkill for his needs). Beyond that, some off-the-shelf software specifically designed for small businesses could be a viable option.

For the main server, I'd recommend buying an actual server from a reputable vendor (Lenovo, for example) that comes with onsite warranty. For the remote terminals, you can build those yourself and be the IT support if you want. Given the type of data that will be stored in the database, it's extremely important that you put just as much thought into physical security and redundancy that you do into everything else. Be sure he invests in quality hardware, backups (both onsite and offsite, encrypted, if possible), and a good UPS/battery backup to run it all. The scope of planning infrastructure in a commercial setting is a lot different than your typical home setting, even if it is just a small gym.

What's the nature of your involvement with the project? Are you just giving him ideas as a friend, are you going to build it for him, are you going to be responsible for it, are you going to be compensated for it?
Click to expand...

As far as budget, I haven't a clue. He is still in the planning stages of even leaving the gym he's at now to start his own. He is still looking for a location let alone the network.

But he is an apple person as we, so he would want everything to "just work". So linux would be out. He is familiar enough with Windows.

My involvement is that of "that guy is good with computers. Ask him." I'm a client of his, so of course he asked me if I were capable of setting up such a system. And yes. I would of course request compensation.

Lastly, why a pre built server? The on site warranty I understand, but aren't those expensive? Isn't it alot easier to build a pc yourself and just install server OS? It's what I did with my homee server. As for battery backups, cold storage back ups etc, are all those services offered with a pre built server "package"? Because if so, I see the sense of going with one of their server pre-built.

To reiterate, budget is undetermined but I can guarantee he'll want windows for ease of use. As for my involvement, I'm currently just building up scenarios in my head. I don't want to give him false hope that I can do all this for him, just so I can get in over my head. I'm good with computers, and I would say proficient in networking but I'm definitely still learning. I'm a network IT major in college atm. Say I built nothing but the 3 terminals and the access database. How much in labor is that usually? I'm at a complete loss as to what I'd even charge. (I'd currently charge people $80 for a ground up gaming pc build)
 
Are you capable or are we going to knock this out for you at no charge? Building for a business environment is quite different than building a gaming PC for a buddy or a server one doesn't care about in their home...

You will likely have 10's of hours into this, and in the end, you better make darn sure it is able to work. This is a business and if his server goes down his business is stopped in its tracks. This is partly why you should go prebuilt with vendor support. Some have UPS' yes, not sure about vendors offering a cloud back up. At my office, we of course back up on site and do not use the cloud (we also replicate the data offsite for DR and High Availability applications). All these things need to be considered. Just be careful you are not getting in over your head for this guy as I am sure, if he does this, there is a lot riding on it.
 
maybe you can find some kind of open source membership management software that will open a simple web connection to said " server" and not have to worry about anything else, could just run some linux on the kiosk / pos system.
http://blog.capterra.com/top-7-free-open-source-membership-management-software-products/ the clubmaster looked to be a pretty good option for a gym. free open source and i believe browser based didnt take a very long look)

http://www.simpleinvoices.org/ (i use this for my pc repair / security camera business can do reoccuring charges, keep inventory, and whatnot.) it is browser based, and has usernames for say employees and admins.
 
Infinite66 said:
As far as budget, I haven't a clue. He is still in the planning stages of even leaving the gym he's at now to start his own. He is still looking for a location let alone the network.

But he is an apple person as we, so he would want everything to "just work". So linux would be out. He is familiar enough with Windows.

My involvement is that of "that guy is good with computers. Ask him." I'm a client of his, so of course he asked me if I were capable of setting up such a system. And yes. I would of course request compensation.

Lastly, why a pre built server? The on site warranty I understand, but aren't those expensive? Isn't it alot easier to build a pc yourself and just install server OS? It's what I did with my homee server. As for battery backups, cold storage back ups etc, are all those services offered with a pre built server "package"? Because if so, I see the sense of going with one of their server pre-built.

To reiterate, budget is undetermined but I can guarantee he'll want windows for ease of use. As for my involvement, I'm currently just building up scenarios in my head. I don't want to give him false hope that I can do all this for him, just so I can get in over my head. I'm good with computers, and I would say proficient in networking but I'm definitely still learning. I'm a network IT major in college atm. Say I built nothing but the 3 terminals and the access database. How much in labor is that usually? I'm at a complete loss as to what I'd even charge. (I'd currently charge people $80 for a ground up gaming pc build)
Click to expand...

It will certainly be cheaper for you to throw a rig together and install Windows Server on it, but consumer grade components can (and often do) fail disastrously without warning. If something happens (and he's the kind of guy that just expects it to 'just work'), you're going to be getting a phonecall every time the PC won't boot, or BSODs, or is running slowly or something. If there's a hardware failure, you'll most likely have to deal with the vendor or retailer for an RMA, which could lead to significant downtime for him or out of pocket expenses, and potential loss of business. Commercial grade components, however, are tried-and-true. They're deployed literally by the hundreds of thousands and engineered for use cases exactly like this and well beyond. If you go directly through a vendor, the owner can just pick up the phone and they'll have a tech out quickly to diagnose and repair.

Like I mentioned earlier, a software package that is designed for this sort of thing might be your best bet here. They're generally developed with the 'for-dummies' attitude in mind. The links that Wagex provided might a good starting place, but be careful about going with open source software, because you aren't guaranteed any support or longevity. If his business relies on this software, a break or bug in the software could cause lots of headaches for him.

Overall, it sounds like you've got a good handle on a 10,000ft view of what needs to happen, and that's probably a good starting place to start consulting with this guy. As his ideas come to fruition, though, you'll likely start digging much deeper which will be a valuable learning experience for you (especially if you enjoy this sort of thing).
Certainly don't let us discourage your from taking this on, just realize that to do it right, it's much more complex than slapping together a few barebones kits from Newegg. In any event, it sounds like it's still just a pipe dream at the moment, so you've got plenty of time to do your research and if/when the time comes, you can build this guy a rock solid and efficient infrastructure that will make his business that much easier to run.
 
pcgamer4life said:
It will certainly be cheaper for you to throw a rig together and install Windows Server on it, but consumer grade components can (and often do) fail disastrously without warning. If something happens (and he's the kind of guy that just expects it to 'just work'), you're going to be getting a phonecall every time the PC won't boot, or BSODs, or is running slowly or something. If there's a hardware failure, you'll most likely have to deal with the vendor or retailer for an RMA, which could lead to significant downtime for him or out of pocket expenses, and potential loss of business. Commercial grade components, however, are tried-and-true. They're deployed literally by the hundreds of thousands and engineered for use cases exactly like this and well beyond. If you go directly through a vendor, the owner can just pick up the phone and they'll have a tech out quickly to diagnose and repair.

Like I mentioned earlier, a software package that is designed for this sort of thing might be your best bet here. They're generally developed with the 'for-dummies' attitude in mind. The links that Wagex provided might a good starting place, but be careful about going with open source software, because you aren't guaranteed any support or longevity. If his business relies on this software, a break or bug in the software could cause lots of headaches for him.

Overall, it sounds like you've got a good handle on a 10,000ft view of what needs to happen, and that's probably a good starting place to start consulting with this guy. As his ideas come to fruition, though, you'll likely start digging much deeper which will be a valuable learning experience for you (especially if you enjoy this sort of thing).
Certainly don't let us discourage your from taking this on, just realize that to do it right, it's much more complex than slapping together a few barebones kits from Newegg. In any event, it sounds like it's still just a pipe dream at the moment, so you've got plenty of time to do your research and if/when the time comes, you can build this guy a rock solid and efficient infrastructure that will make his business that much easier to run.
Click to expand...
Well said. That is what I meant and came off A LOT less rude than mine... Thanks. :)
 
EarthDog said:
Well said. That is what I meant and came off A LOT less rude than mine... Thanks. :)
Click to expand...

Since someone asked if I was capable and if you're all helping me plan or build this out for free, the answer is maybe. Haha. I'm bouncing ideas around, and since I'm a noob in the field of business level server environments, I figured I'd have people more well versed in the matter pick apart my plan. Hence the thread name.

And this seems like alot more to consider. Given the evidence of pre-built server > self built, I would definitely go with the a setup from lenovo or dell.

And as was also mentioned, I'm definitely in the planning stages primarily, and my trainer doesn't even know I'm really looking into it. This is because the last thing I want is him thinking I got this, and wondering why I'm taking so long because as I said, I'm a novice with this. For instance, encrypted off site back ups isn't something I even considered until this thread.

I'm going to look into the prices of decent servers and in site maintenance. As well as how much it would be to throw together 3 terminals or even buy them from the same company. Also gonna see if an access database would be the way to go. All in all I learned quite a bit from this thread and you all have my thanks.

Since I have a mini server of my own, maybe I could throw together an access database of like my personal expenses and see how easy it is to create, maintain, use, and query.
 
I am not sure if this is something I would get into if I was you. Now, we all need to start somewhere, and I think you are going about it well, but, unlike your system builds, this is a lot more complex and he will likely rely on you after commissioning to support it.

Just be careful... I say this from experience. :)
 
Go pre-built. For the server and the POS systems.
Reason being this:
- System fails, custom built. Dude comes to you going "why the Hell did this break".
- System fails, pre-built. You don't have to do a thing.
 
I am with Earthdog and ATMINSIDE. Building gaming PCs and Overclocking don't exactly translate to business servers and databases. And I too say you keep your involvement to a minimum. Research some local resources and let them be on the hook for it.
 
EarthDog said:
I am not sure if this is something I would get into if I was you. Now, we all need to start somewhere, and I think you are going about it well, but, unlike your system builds, this is a lot more complex and he will likely rely on you after commissioning to support it.

Just be careful... I say this from experience. :)
Click to expand...

Yea you're right. This is a very big undertaking. I think I'd be better off as an advisor
 
ATMINSIDE said:
Go pre-built. For the server and the POS systems.
Reason being this:
- System fails, custom built. Dude comes to you going "why the Hell did this break".
- System fails, pre-built. You don't have to do a thing.
Click to expand...

SteveLord said:
I am with Earthdog and ATMINSIDE. Building gaming PCs and Overclocking don't exactly translate to business servers and databases. And I too say you keep your involvement to a minimum. Research some local resources and let them be on the hook for it.
Click to expand...

manu2b said:
^This!
Click to expand...

Sounds about right. Definitely don't want angry calls because their system took a dump. Alot easier to have someone else take the blame. And have to send someone out to fix everything.
 
Sounds like you are on the right track now (don't do something for free/cheap that can and will break, causing financial impact to the business).

If you are going to advise him, I would recommend looking at it from the customer's point of view. It dosn't matter what kind of computer setup they have, what matters is how quickly and effortlessly customers can get into the gym, pay or modify their membership, etc. If you are hunting around in a spreadsheet for all of this, and the staff is wrangling write access from eachother, it won't go well.

Ask the questions: what is the customer's membership card? Magstripe? RFID? Barcode? Photo ID eyeballed by staff? Then figure out what's needed to make that work: magstripe reader or RFID reader connected to a turnstile? dedicated staff member to buzz people through? badge creater machine? etc. Don't forget a plan B, where business can continue when things break (they will).

In reality, they will likely need three different systems: a CRM (for tracking past/current/future customers and sales leads), accounting software (for tracking who has paid), and a badge system (for allowing them past the front desk). The more well-connected these are, the more expensive the system will be. The less connected it is, the more manual work there will need to be... like having to manually go through and disable accounts of people who haven't renewed their membership.
 
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