Upgrading/finding Bottleneck on semi holder system

jdong707 · Nov 4, 2014

The build I have is pieced, I built it originally 5 years ago and the MOBO is probably 10 years old. My question is what should be upgraded or the smartest thing to do next. All advise will be read and learned from(unless it pointless).

Case- Corsair 600T
CPU- Q9650 @ 4.00 with Corsair H70
MOBO- Asus Commando
RAM- DDR2 4x2GB Dominators
GPU- Powercolor 6990 w/ Arctic Fan upgrade
PS- PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk II 950W
SSD/HD- Main SSD- 256 Samsung 840 pro, secondary, 2x90GB ssd Agility 2, 1 TB HDD

Goals- Getting more FPS in games, Games I play is Arma 3, FSX10 and Battlefield 4.
Thanks for your time, and the help.

EarthDog · Nov 5, 2014

You need a new CPU/mobo/ram... you can keep the case, PSU, and SSD/HD. I would upgrade that GPU to a less power hungry and troublesome (SLI/CFx can be) model as well.

In the meantime, you can overclock that Q9650 to get more FPS as well as overclocking that 6990.

Theocnoob · Nov 5, 2014

Yup. PCIE 1.0 and your CPU and BUS and probably your RAM are all bottlenecks. As Earthdog said you will need a new CPU/MOBO/RAM

Something like

Asus Z97-A
4690K
2x4GB DDR3 2133
Hyper 212 EVO cpu cooler

Or

Gigabyte H97 G1 Sniper
4460
2x4GB DDR3 1600
stock cooler

jdong707 · Nov 6, 2014

I appreciate the input guys and I do like your build Theocnoob for a upgrade. What would be the guestimated increase in performance, im think 50~60% just do to being able to use 100% of my other hardware.

EarthDog · Nov 6, 2014

Its hard to quantify such a value... just know its a heck of a jump.

Theocnoob · Nov 6, 2014

jdong707 said:
I appreciate the input guys and I do like your build Theocnoob for a upgrade. What would be the guestimated increase in performance, im think 50~60% just do to being able to use 100% of my other hardware.

Can't say exactly what % of an increase it'll be. Look up "your CPU" vs 4690K benchmarks and see for yourself. Keep in mind also that you can get the 4690K to a higher OC than your current chip which helps too.

My guess is around 200%.

jdong707 · Nov 11, 2014

Yes after looking it up I have found anywhere from 190-250% including OC comfortably to 4.6. Another question would be if it is worth it upgrading now or save for next year for newer technology to come out. Part of me thinks if im willing to do that might as well build a new rig, which i'm not financially able to do for awhile. Also is the equipment inside of the computer now able to sell for anything?

Theocnoob · Nov 11, 2014

jdong707 said:
Yes after looking it up I have found anywhere from 190-250% including OC comfortably to 4.6. Another question would be if it is worth it upgrading now or save for next year for newer technology to come out. Part of me thinks if im willing to do that might as well build a new rig, which i'm not financially able to do for awhile. Also is the equipment inside of the computer now able to sell for anything?

Your current chip/mobo/ram can be sold but don't expect miraculous prices. Try the B/S/T forums on this site.

If you wait you're looking at new GPUs from AMD around February (?) and new CPUs/chipset from Intel some time in 2015. The new platform will be Broadwell with DDR4 support although apparently it will be a transitional platform and some boards will support DDR3 while others support DDR4. Since Broadwell is a "tick" and not a "tock" (look it up. Hands hurt can't type that much), I don't expect the performance jump over Haswell to be tremendous, although if the mobile parts already out are any indication, the power consumption and heat output should be low(er) than Haswell. I wouldn't expect any platform upgrades with Broadwell besides the DDR4 option. We already got SATA express, M.2, all Sata 6 on this generation. It's possible that we'll see the next USB implementation creep up with Broadwell but I wouldn't hold my breath.

In short, buy now. You're not missing much if you wait.

We're not going to see a big jump like we saw from C2Q to 1st gen i7, or from 1st gen i7 to second gen i7. We are not living in such times.

jdong707 · Nov 11, 2014

Theocnoob said:
Your current chip/mobo/ram can be sold but don't expect miraculous prices. Try the B/S/T forums on this site.

If you wait you're looking at new GPUs from AMD around February (?) and new CPUs/chipset from Intel some time in 2015. The new platform will be Broadwell with DDR4 support although apparently it will be a transitional platform and some boards will support DDR3 while others support DDR4. Since Broadwell is a "tick" and not a "tock" (look it up. Hands hurt can't type that much), I don't expect the performance jump over Haswell to be tremendous, although if the mobile parts already out are any indication, the power consumption and heat output should be low(er) than Haswell. I wouldn't expect any platform upgrades with Broadwell besides the DDR4 option. We already got SATA express, M.2, all Sata 6 on this generation. It's possible that we'll see the next USB implementation creep up with Broadwell but I wouldn't hold my breath.

In short, buy now. You're not missing much if you wait.

We're not going to see a big jump like we saw from C2Q to 1st gen i7, or from 1st gen i7 to second gen i7. We are not living in such times.

Oh okay cool, thanks for pointing me in the right direction to look into the next gen processors, so far i'm thinking hopefully I can talk the wife into a upgrade :shock:

very soon.

What would you think I would be able to sell my MOBO/Processor/Ram combo for? realisticallty

Theocnoob · Nov 12, 2014

jdong707 said:
Oh okay cool, thanks for pointing me in the right direction to look into the next gen processors, so far i'm thinking hopefully I can talk the wife into a upgrade very soon.

What would you think I would be able to sell my MOBO/Processor/Ram combo for? realisticallty

I wasn't pointing you in the direction of looking into next gen processors at all. You will gain very little. Intel works in a "Tick, Tock" method. They release a whole new architecture (tock), then a process shrink and optimization (tick). The next gen is a tick. Honestly, lately, even the tocks haven't brought us anything earth shattering.

Bloomfield (i7 first gen ie i7 920)- tock - Massive improvement over Core 2
Gulftown (i7, first gen, hex core ie i7 980X) tick -Performance boost due to 2 extra cores
Sandybridge (celeron/pentium/i3/i5/i7, second gen ie i7 2600K) tock -Massive performance boost over previous i7 quad cores
Ivybridge (celeron/pentium/i3/i5/i7 , third gen, ie i7 3770K) tick -Almost no performance boost, adds PCIE 3.0
Haswell/refresh/DC (celeron/pentium/i3/i5/i7, fourth gen, ie i7 4770K) tock -Almost no performance boost, adds 6 Sata 3, M.2, Sata express
Broadwell (celeron/pentium/i3/i5/i7/core M, fifth gen ie core M 5Y70) tick -Almost no performance boost, possibly adds new USB implementation, DDR4, MASSIVE power savings in mobile space= longer battery life.

manu2b · Nov 12, 2014

I don't think Broadwell will have DDR4 support, as they should be z97 compatible.

It's a thing for Skylake I believe, but I can be wrong...

Theocnoob · Nov 12, 2014

manu2b said:
I don't think Broadwell will have DDR4 support, as they should be z97 compatible.

It's a thing for Skylake I believe, but I can be wrong...

In theory, yes, they will be Z97 compatible, however there will also be a new chipset (just as DC is compatible with Z87 with a bios update but the Z97 chipset exists nonetheless) possibly called Z107. Boards with this chipset will either come with DDR4 or DDR3 slots, depending on the board, in order to give people a "budget" RAM option given DDR4's high prices currently. That's what I've read. As always, early information can be wrong. But all signs point to the IMC on 5th gen Core CPUs having dual DDR4/DDR3 support.

jdong707 · Nov 13, 2014

Theocnoob said:
I wasn't pointing you in the direction of looking into next gen processors at all. You will gain very little. Intel works in a "Tick, Tock" method. They release a whole new architecture (tock), then a process shrink and optimization (tick). The next gen is a tick. Honestly, lately, even the tocks haven't brought us anything earth shattering.

Bloomfield (i7 first gen ie i7 920)- tock - Massive improvement over Core 2
Gulftown (i7, first gen, hex core ie i7 980X) tick -Performance boost due to 2 extra cores
Sandybridge (celeron/pentium/i3/i5/i7, second gen ie i7 2600K) tock -Massive performance boost over previous i7 quad cores
Ivybridge (celeron/pentium/i3/i5/i7 , third gen, ie i7 3770K) tick -Almost no performance boost, adds PCIE 3.0
Haswell/refresh/DC (celeron/pentium/i3/i5/i7, fourth gen, ie i7 4770K) tock -Almost no performance boost, adds 6 Sata 3, M.2, Sata express
Broadwell (celeron/pentium/i3/i5/i7/core M, fifth gen ie core M 5Y70) tick -Almost no performance boost, possibly adds new USB implementation, DDR4, MASSIVE power savings in mobile space= longer battery life.

I meant you pointed me in the right direction of not waiting for broadwell. Also very good analogy with the tick tock.
My main reason for wanting to upgrade is to be able to use my 144hz Asus vg248qe I get for my birthday this weekend. I am playing insurgency and bf4. Insurgency I'm getting 60-90fps with cpu @ 3.9 and gpu at 925 and 1380. BF4 I'm getting around 45fps on high.
I just oc to 4.11 so I ran aida64 and read write and l1 and L2 speeds went up by a 100mb/s which I don't think is going to make that big of a difference.
Is my reasoning for upgrade reasonable, honest opinions are appreciated... is it worth the $700?

Theocnoob · Nov 13, 2014

jdong707 said:
I meant you pointed me in the right direction of not waiting for broadwell. Also very good analogy with the tick tock.
My main reason for wanting to upgrade is to be able to use my 144hz Asus vg248qe I get for my birthday this weekend. I am playing insurgency and bf4. Insurgency I'm getting 60-90fps with cpu @ 3.9 and gpu at 925 and 1380. BF4 I'm getting around 45fps on high.
I just oc to 4.11 so I ran aida64 and read write and l1 and L2 speeds went up by a 100mb/s which I don't think is going to make that big of a difference.
Is my reasoning for upgrade reasonable, honest opinions are appreciated... is it worth the $700?

Definitely worth the $700. You don't need a reasonable purpose for upgrading when your system is that old. BTW Tick/Tock is not an analogy, that's what Intel actually calls it.

ticktock_infographic_web.jpg.rendition.cq5dam.thumbnail.640.213.jpg

jdong707 · Nov 13, 2014

Ahhh tick tick I get it. Lol thanks
items ordered :
Corsair Vengeance 2133 ddr3 240 2x4gb
Intel 4690k
Corsair h100I
Asus Saber tooth Mark 1 Z97
I'm excited...now the worse part...time to wait.

Theocnoob · Nov 13, 2014

Uh oh...

"Who told you to get an H100i? I didn't tell you to get an H100i..."

The mount is defective on some of them making for less than ideal temps and there have been reports of leaks on other forums. The NZXT Kraken X61 or Swiftech H220X would be better choices.

jdong707 · Nov 13, 2014

Theocnoob said:
Uh oh...

"Who told you to get an H100i? I didn't tell you to get an H100i..."

The mount is defective on some of them making for less than ideal temps and there have been reports of leaks on other forums. The NZXT Kraken X61 or Swiftech H220X would be better choices.

Ahhh well I do hope mine isn't defective or leaks since it is ordeed already lol.
I have had my h70 for over 4 years and did excellent, hopefully same luck with the 100i?

jdong707 · Nov 18, 2014

Updating everyone, so all the new parts are in, spent a few hours today installing all the new stuff, pictures will be uploaded tomorrow

but so far EXTREMELY happy, need to install all the games again and put it through some benchmarks but with Aida64, there was a HUGE jump with the x64 stuff and not so much with x32 on the GPU Benchmark. CPU and Memory test, some reads were at 8000mb/s to 21000 mb/s. Also L2 cache went from 800mb/s to 20GB/s!!!! OMG!!!!

jdong707 · Nov 19, 2014

Opinions? I think my bottleneck is gone

but i am running into software issues, I downloaded BF4 and so far it wont go full screen and also won't go into Options without Hanging... I am hoping its not the new DLC that released last night.

pinky33 · Nov 19, 2014

let us know how you feel the fps and or real world gaming increase feels.

Upgrading/finding Bottleneck on semi holder system

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