I'm a water cooling virgin and wish to clarify some points - thanks!

I'd like to thank you in advance for taking the time to read this thread, for your advice and support

Since this is my first attempt at water cooling I was going to go down the All-In-One route, but figured that would be a pretty dumb choice as I would probably learn little from the experience. So, custom loop it is - which does excite a bit! lol

Everything will be going into a Phanteks Enthoo Primo

I have not bought anything yet. Please advise if you think the following basic rig is not well matched as it will (probably) be:

• Gibabyte Z97X Gaming G1-Wifi BK (I might as well watercool the VRMs on the board too)
• i7 4790K
• EVGA 970 GPUS Reference boards in SLI
• Corsair AX PSU (Wattage to be calculated)
• Kingston HyperX Savage DDR3 modules

I definitely will be overclocking. However, it is also essential that the rig is as quiet as reasonable possible. I am literally at the planning stage (for about the last two weeks) although I will be buying the basic rig next week.


Initial questions:

1. Is it okay to use barbs without clamps? I was thinking of using 1/2" ID barbs with 7/16" ID Primochill Pirmochill Advanced LRT tubing. I'd heat up the tubing to fit. Will that work without leaks? (I've read somewhere that it's fine but wanted to know your experiences with this). It would leave the loop looking clean without the expense of compression fittings.
2. I've been doing some reading on radiator choices. If I have understood correctly a thick radiator with a low fpi will allow me to have my static pressure fans running at lower rpms, lower noise whilst still providing highly effective cooling. Is that correct??? If so, would either the 2xAlphacool UT60s or 2xBlack Ice SR2s be a good choice??? Maybe a Monsta and a UT60 if the Monsta fits ok? I plan to have something like 1x420 & 1x360. The rad sizes will be firmed up once the basic rig is installed and I have calculated how I will use the available space.
3. Blocks - EK Supremacy EVO for the CPU and Heatkiller GPU-X3s for the 970s. Are these all okay? If not the Heatkillers then I could go EK GPU block solution instead.
4. Do I have to use a third-party SLI bridge or can I simply connect using the same Promochill LRT flexible tubing as that will help me to maintain the colour scheme? I plan on testing the link in both series and parallel to see which one gives me the best temps. Using the tubing would also make this simple (I think) *tee-hee*
5. Are the blocks and rads ok together?? They've all got to be the same internal material yeah??
6. Choice of D5 pump to be decided after rads are confirmed.
7. I plan to use a tube reservoir but am confused with regard to capacities. Does a res capacity make any difference at all or is it purely about what fits in the case? Reservoir may be mounted with velcro.
8. Is there anything important I've missed, not considered or thought about?

Please feel free to rip this post to pieces if anything I've typed seems absurd. I'm here to learn and won't be offended! Gentle flaming is acceptable, just please accompany the flame with something constructive too lol


These are just my initial questions. I pretty much already have a list of cooling components I want, but don't want to get anything delivered that doesn't work as that would leave me feeling a bit when I want to be feeling . There will be plenty more questions coming in the following weeks/months!!!

Thanks again

1) I personally would not use tubing without clamps. Others have run 7/16 tubing over 1/2 barb without problems. I have seen one person leak that way. compressions are much cheaper than leaking.
2) for slower fans, thicker rads not always best choice, depends on lot of variables including your definition of slow speed. here is martins testing of many rads at different fan speeds.
3) either would be fine
4) tubing works or sli bridge, your choice. if going parallel bridge will avoid really short run, either is doable. parallel will cause both gpu temps to be roughly .5C higher than lowest serial. Serial will have 1 gpu roughly .5C higher than other. Given low temps of gpus, serial vs parallel 0.5C temps are irrelevant. parallel might make your cpu temps 0.5C cooler from increased flow, which is also irrelevant. So do whichever looks best.
5) yep
6) It takes 7 minutes of running prime for water temps to max, even with 250ml reservoir. With 50 ml reservoir, takes about 6 minutes. any rise in temps after that is because ambient temps increase from expelled rad air. What larger reservoirs are good for is easier filling (less stop/start pump), and then aesthetics and fitting in case is other considerations.

I would have to agree with RGE. I wouldn't go without clamps. It only takes one leak to kill your rig. If you want a good looking clamp look into primochill nylon clamps. Not expensive at look great.

For a quiet setup most people go the thin rad/low fpi with slow speed fans. Thicker rads generally require more static pressure which will need higher speed fans (more noise)

As far as your blocks are concerned, I love my EK Supremacy EVO. But I can't comment on the GPU blocks as I only water cool my cpu at this time.

the blocks and rads you mentioned are fine together. The main thing you want to make sure is that there is no aluminum internally. Purchasing "name brand" products like swiftech, alphacool, etc will almost eliminate that possibility as they (to my knowledge) don't use aluminum except for the outer housing.

As RGE mentioned the main purpose of the reservoir is for filling, but I'd like to add there are some out there that restrict flow more than others so do some research before buying.

The last thing I'd like to mention is that the use of dyes and other additives is discouraged here. Just plain distilled water and a silver kill coil is what seems to work best.

to the forums Cozumel.

rge said:

1) I personally would not use tubing without clamps. Others have run 7/16 tubing over 1/2 barb without problems. I have seen one person leak that way. compressions are much cheaper than leaking.

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Blaylock said:

I would have to agree with RGE. I wouldn't go without clamps. It only takes one leak to kill your rig. If you want a good looking clamp look into primochill nylon clamps. Not expensive at look great.

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Hmmmm....I guess that I should listen to what you are both saying. Since I'm currently using my backup system (value $100ish) I think I will go with compression fitting on the new build, buy another cheap cpu block and rad/pump on ebay and go with barbs without clamps on that rig. Experiment with the trash so to speak lol See how it goes. Definitely don't want to my new rig. Reckon it is probably fine as long as I take care to ensure the tubes are fitted all the down. Best to be safe than sorry so! Oh yeah, I know this is subjective, but I find those Primochill nylon clamps quite nasty, hence my preference for compression fittings or nothing Just want something looks good from my eyes...

rge said:

2) for slower fans, thicker rads not always best choice, depends on lot of variables including your definition of slow speed. here is martins testing of many rads at different fan speeds.

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Blaylock said:

For a quiet setup most people go the thin rad/low fpi with slow speed fans. Thicker rads generally require more static pressure which will need higher speed fans (more noise)

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I looked at Martins testing a few days ago (I think he's done a more recent round-up too). I based my conclusion on this testing and other posts, reviews and testing around the web. I thought a bigger radiator surface area = improved thermal efficiency = lower fan RPMS required. Maybe I have misinterpreted the information somehow. I will rad up some more. Be helpful if you could explain some about static pressure, though I believe I do understand about it being a more focused airflow to penetrate obstacles. I was hoping to have RPMs around 1200ish or under. Have I misunderstood? Either way, it requires more reading.


On to the reservoir. Thanks to you both for explaining its primary purpose is for filling!!! Joking aside, it is good to know that a larger capacity means less topping up when bleeding etc (if I folow you both correctly). Which brings to a couple of seemingly stupid questions. They need to be asked though.

1. What is the purpose of a fill port? Don't you just fill the top?
2. What is the purpose of a drain port? Don't you just drain from the bottom of the loop?

Sure I must have missed something here lol.

Blaylock said:

to the forums Cozumel.

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Thank you. My good buddy and a couple of his little helpers says I should raise a glass to you both and wish you both yuletide greetings. He also says I should share the following sentiment with you, and I quote "May the seeds of your loins prove fruitful in the belly of your woman". Sounds a bit vulgar to me, but Santa said it was appropriate!!!

You could still run low-mid speed fans on thick rads with low FPI. It shouldn't be an issue and yes, more heat surface the better. Make sure to pick up premium fans. Some premium fans at a low-mid speed are almost not audible as other low speed fans can be. You can add push and pull for more assistance but you won't see a drastic improvement.

The saying goes, the lower the FPI is, the lower the fan speed can be and vise versa.

As for the drain port, its used to fill the loop with liquid and assists in the bleeding process.

As for the drain port, it is used to drain the loop in preparation of maintenance and yes you'd want it to be at the lowest point of your loop.

GTXJackBauer said:

You could still run low-mid speed fans on thick rads with low FPI. It shouldn't be an issue and yes, more heat surface the better. Make sure to pick up premium fans. Some premium fans at a low-mid speed are almost not audible as other low speed fans can be. You can add push and pull for more assistance but you won't see a drastic improvement.

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Right then. Assuming that I end going with something like the UT60s, I could go with some Phanteks PH-F120MP (they also do a 140mm in the same range). Has anyone used these fans on a rad who can comment on performance & noise at say 1200ish RPM?

As far as push/pull is concerned every 1/2 deg celcius is important!! I will get enough fans to experiment how different configs work out whilst trying to balance out the noise to performance ratio. I'm not ignoring what you are saying, but it's just that I get great joy out of playing around with overclocks and different cooling configs. I am a geek. It fascinates me. And I love it!

Keeps the advice /support / suggestions coming guys and gals. Thanks

i've always run 7/16 tubing on 1/2 fittings with no clamps, been through 4 builds, numerous rebuilds, and a number of part swaps, desktops being moved multiple times, and have yet to ever have a leak.

cozumel said:

Right then. Assuming that I end going with something like the UT60s, I could go with some Phanteks PH-F120MP (they also do a 140mm in the same range). Has anyone used these fans on a rad who can comment on performance & noise at say 1200ish RPM?

As far as push/pull is concerned every 1/2 deg celcius is important!! I will get enough fans to experiment how different configs work out whilst trying to balance out the noise to performance ratio. I'm not ignoring what you are saying, but it's just that I get great joy out of playing around with overclocks and different cooling configs. I am a geek. It fascinates me. And I love it!

Keeps the advice /support / suggestions coming guys and gals. Thanks

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Well, if you have the funds for it, go push and pull. Just make sure you add about 50mm on top for fans in push and pull and 60mm for the rad which gives you a total of 110mm. Make measurements and make sure where you will be putting these rads and fans to play with. Take a look at martin's fan comparison. AP-15s were the king but since they stopped making them, Noiseblocker B12 eLoops are the king of the hill now.

dyckah said:

i've always run 7/16 tubing on 1/2 fittings with no clamps, been through 4 builds, numerous rebuilds, and a number of part swaps, desktops being moved multiple times, and have yet to ever have a leak.

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You're a lucky man. I still wouldn't recommend or advise it. Your gear might not be as expensive as others to replace. Not worth it imo.

Actually Jack, Diaz just started a thread here. He claims Nidec is still making them but calling them AP-53 now and they can be purchased through coolerguys.com. He posted the direct link in his thread. Just an FYI.

GTXJackBauer said:

You're a lucky man. I still wouldn't recommend or advise it. Your gear might not be as expensive as others to replace. Not worth it imo.

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as long as you do a proper leak test, there is no reason that it should start leaking at a later date.

Blaylock said:

Actually Jack, Diaz just started a thread here. He claims Nidec is still making them but calling them AP-53 now and they can be purchased through coolerguys.com. He posted the direct link in his thread. Just an FYI.

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Wow, that's awesome. Great news! Now lets get a different color and PWM to them.

okay. First few parts (for the basic rig) are ordered. Should be delivered next week and I can do some initial stress tests just to check the hardware is good. Currently reconsidering my choice of GPU is trying to work out which manufacturers are using the best binned chips. Once that is finalised, I can firm up on the GPU cooler choice.

Re the fans
Not keen on the AP15s as I'm in Europe and they are hard to come by here without importing. If a fan fails or is doa it could take ages to do an exchange.
Eloop - fine on push but not so good on pull. I would require a shroud for the pull side which then makes the space tighter. Could use different fans though for push/pull respectively. Have to wait till the case arrives so I can measure up and see what combination of rads and fan configurations would fit.

There is going to be delay between buying of the basic rig and purchase of the water loop components (due to budgetary constraints). I'm still going to use this thread for questions, advice, support etc. I'll start a separate thread as a build log. Won't be 'til February at the earliest (sigh). Might have to sell the wife...that should cover the cost of the tubing anyhow...

I always ran my H2O systems with clamps. I also agree about assembling the system prior to use and leak testing. Over the years I actually received brand new parts for water cooling that leaked. I currently air cool, however I will be switching back to H2O as soon as I finish my next build.

I mention this only because you say you're an H2O virgin. Don't forget to do the rad - dance when your new radiators come in.

Well Blaylock, my first part, the Enthoo Primo, turned up today and I was all ready to bust out some moves (been practising my back-flips in anticipation). Sadly, it was damaged in transit. The plastic moulding on the base of the case is cracked and broken, the front panel is also damaged. It is going back. Other parts should be turning up over the next few days but won't be able to measure things up 'til the new case turns up and I can install some components.

Slight changes to rig components and water-cooling parts listed in my first few posts as I've firmed up on some things and worked out what I needed/wanted.

Basic rig:

• Gibabyte Z97X Gaming G1-Wifi BK (I might as well watercool the VRMs on the board too)
• i7 4790K
• 2 x Gigabyte GTX970 G1 Gaming (may get a 3rd too - custom PCB)
• Kingston HyperX Savage 2x8GB 16GB kit
• Corsair AX1500i (I was going to with a 1200W as it would be enough. But felt it might end up being a bit noisy as the load would be quite high. Therefore the 1500i for acoustics. 125A single rail is more than enough, although I haven't calculated the current lol)

Water Loop:

• CPU Waterblock - EK Supremacy EVO
• GPU Waterblocks - EK-FC​970 GTX WF3 (plus matching backplates)
• Tubing - 7/16" ID Primochill Pirmochill Advanced LRT
• 1/2" Barbs (I've decided not to use any clamps)
• Still narrowing down the D5 pumps (more research to do re noise, flow, restriction, reliability etc)
• Rads tbc dependant on measurements once rig installed. Probably either Nexxxos or Black Ice though
• Reservoir tbc (I keep flip-flopping between positions of tube and whether or not to have a bay res. Most likely a tube though)
• Lamptron CW611 controller
• Pump - Koolance PMP-450

As far as the loop is concerned, my preferred option for neatness may end up:
Res > Pump > GPUs > Rad > CPU > VRMs > Rad > Res
Is something like that ok?

I'm going to buy a few feet of the cheapest tubing I can find so I can try different loops for thermal efficiency and neatness. I don't want to waste the Promochill LRT on my practising and trial runs.

I may well be delidding the CPU, with a razor blade, dependant on temperatures out of the box. I'll buy a few cheap CPUs on ebay to practise on first. I don't plan on lapping.

Please could you advise what non-essential fittings do you recommend? I mean things like angled connectors etc. I know stuff like that is all dependant on the loop, but what sort of stuff do you keep in your closet that you typically end up using in a loop? Things you like to have just in case they're needed.

Thanks again. And happy new year.

Edit: Does having negative or positive air pressure inside the case still have an impact on temps when watercooling? It does when I've overclocked on air and wondered if it's similar with water. (pretty sure the ensure is yes)

Edit 2: Sorry about my long posts. I'm just the same in real life lol. I give 100-word answers to questions that some argue only require a simple yes or no!

Lol no problem on the post size.

1. Loop order. Put your res before your pump. Everything else can be in whatever order you like. After 5 mins of load (gaming or benching) your water temp will equalize and you won't notice more than 1-2c through out the loop.

2. If you do get cheap tubing for practice runs, I'd pull your blocks apart and rinse everything before your final assy. Cheap tubing can/will leave residuals on everything.

3. Delidding will get you around 2-5c lower temps. I would only recommend this if your doing extreme benching. For gaming you'll only void your warranty and not kill any more tanks or creepers lol. If I was dead set on doing it I'd PM Shrimpbrime. He's a member here and he's successfully delidded dozen of chips.

4. I'm using Bitspower and EK fittings. I don't have a need for extras. Just buy what you need.

5. It's generally believed it's better to have positive case pressure. This is to help keep out dust more than anything. What's mose important is good case air flow. This is true regardless of cooling type.

P.S. sorry to hear about your case. These things sometimes happen. The good news is they're going to replace it.

I think I'm going to go with the Koolance PMP-450 (D5 Vario) Pump. That's the exact same pump as the Swiftech MCP655 yeah?

I've been reading Martin's review on this pump and he says it is supplied with a good top and that although it is already quiet, the noise can be further reduced with an acetal top.

Can someone please explain how different can change the performance of a pump. Thanks

Update

Okay I'm back. Such a long delay

Please accept my apology

Refrigerator broke and closely followed by the washing machine and I ended up being press-ganged into installing a matching kitchen!!! I just didn't want to end up on the sofa for a couple of months so I went with the kitchen/

Anyhow, loads of extra planning time and I now have this full box of loveliness:

• 1 x EK Supremacy Evo CPU block
• 2 x EK FC970 GTX WF3 GPU Full Cover blocks with backplates
• Alphacool VPP655 D5 vario
• EK XTOP D5 pump top
• 2x 360mm Nexxos UT60 Radiators
• 12 x Gentle Typhoon AP-15 Fans

• Distilled water
• PT Nuke biocide
• Primochill LRT Advanced Tubing 1/2"ID 3/4"OD
• Lamptron CW611 Controller
• Lots of BitsPower straight barbs, angled barbs, rotary barbs, hose clamps and 2 in-line temperature sensors.

I also bought another GPU card.

Thing is now, I've been waiting over 2 weeks for the Primochill 240mm Red CTR Phase II to be available...I've tried in the US, UK and Europe without any joy. I want that color as I've already got a pair of blacked knurled rings to use with it, to coordinate with the blood red hoses and silver fittings. Not sure whether to get a different color until Primochill get round to manufacturing them (I rang them too!). I could then swap over tube colors and sell the original color on ebay lol

So would FrozenCPU be a trustworthy source as alternative? They sell this red Primochill tube replacement. Plus a blue CTR res and some fittings =$131 plus insured shipping to the UK. But they want the money by wire transfer. A wire transfer costs an extra $30. They say their on-line ordering system is down and they have lost their connection to PayPal until late next week at the earliest! They don't accept phone orders with a UK credit card so they said only choice is wire transfer. It just with what happened earlier this year...

Should I trust them or should I be patient and just get any old res for now? I can always swap over later.... I'm just so desperate now to get this thing up and running...

cozumel said:

So would FrozenCPU be a trustworthy source as alternative? They sell this red Primochill tube replacement. Plus a blue CTR res and some fittings =$131 plus insured shipping to the UK. But they want the money by wire transfer. A wire transfer costs an extra $30. They say their on-line ordering system is down and they have lost their connection to PayPal until late next week at the earliest! They don't accept phone orders with a UK credit card so they said only choice is wire transfer. It just with what happened earlier this year...

Should I trust them or should I be patient and just get any old res for now? I can always swap over later.... I'm just so desperate now to get this thing up and running...

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See this thread
They aren't technically out of business, but i wouldn't recommend doing business with them right now. There was some crazy stuff that went down a while back with them, and they haven't really recovered. They have poor BBB ratings, and the way they are running things right now is super sketchy.

They still owe me $40+. Best is they cancelled my order after the fact the CC not being around since it has been cancelled since than.

Its up to you if you want to give them a shot. Some who have did get their products but idk. Have you tried performance-PCS, Sidewinder Computers or any of these UK sites?

United Kingdom

• Scan
• Yoyotech
• Watercooling UK
• Overclockers UK
• C&C Central
• Chilled PC
• The Watercooling Shop

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Here's a list of the rest of the stores around europe and such. We also have a list of etail stores in our stickies.