How can browser Geolocation be corrected if it is not related to browser setting

I can replicate this on major web sites on all browsers. On a completely clean Firefox profile with no cookies or history, when I click on the option to pick an item at a store, it displays a specific location 800 miles away from me. A different web site does the same, for the same specific location 800 miles away.

How do we correct wrong Geolocation other than entering it manually for each web site?


EDIT: It was the router.

When directly connected without the router, the IP address is local.
I am now going through router settings to see what router setting affects this but cannot figure it out yet.
Netgear WNDR3400 router.

EDIT2: Problem is also resolved if using any other router. It appears that changing the Router MAC setting from 'Default' to 'Computer' resolves this problem...

Google (and possible other companies) maintains an enormous location database based on the MAC addresses of internet capable devices. It's fed by android devices as well as the Google street cars. Basically they drive up and down streets all over the world, taking pictures, but also gathering publicly broadcasted signals from devices such as your router, that report MAC addresses tagged with locations, and dumping into a database. At one point, this was pretty much the only source of browser geolocation (I'm not sure if that has changed or not).

It could be that their database doesn't have a specific entry for your router's MAC, so they're just pulling a location based on that range of MACs (from the factory, retailer, random, who knows).

AFAIK, since geolocation isn't handled by your device, you probably can't change it. There may be a way to spoof it in browser, but probably not on your device.

As I posted in my edit before you posted, this is a router thing.

I have tested this problem to be connected to a router, simply using a different router resolves this issue.
I would like to know where the router setting is that controls that.
Netgear WNDR3400 router.

Right, it IS a router thing. The false location that is being reported is most likely tied to your router's MAC address. When you bypass your router, the website relies on a(n assumed) much less precise IP based location. In your case, IP location is more precise because the geolocation database has an incorrect physical location stored for your particular router's unique MAC address. The Geolocation database isn't anything that exists on your router, it's a service that is provided by a third party that websites rely upon.

Short of spoofing your router's MAC address or a browser plugin that somehow spoofs Geolocation, I don't think you're going to be able to resolve it. You'll just have to wait until the Geolocation database catches up with where your router is now.

I have several routers and simply using a different router resolved this.

Fancy and expensive netgear router cannot report that I am in Kansas City? Yet cheapo Asus and Rosewill newegg routers can? Hm.

MAC address has nothing to do with your location in the context of location aware sites. No website knows what your MAC address is and even if they did, its information is irrelevant in terms of location as, being a physical device, can be located anywhere. Only the first hop router within your ISP cares about your modem's MAC. It's generally a DNS thing that determines your location. The question is what is your router using for passing DNS queries? The ISP's or something like google's? Or is the router generally screwed up.

Using Akamai as an example, they do location based services based on the DNS querier source, not the source IP of the client. Your IP address, regardless of using your router or connecting your PC directly to your modem, will generally stay the same (unless the ISP will dole out a different IP address all the time, but even if that's the case, your IP as a reference for your location doesn't change,) but what you point to for DNS will. If using a router, generally, your PC will point to the router itself for a DNS server, not your ISP's or whatever else unless you configured it as such.

What that means is that in some cases, they may see you as being somewhere else than where you really are. This will depend on the site itself and how they setup traffic. I've seen traffic get sent across the Atlantic due to bad setups. I've also seen sites, like CNN for example, that will look at source IPs for location aware content.

Can the router be doing something to DNS and forwarding them elsewhere, or nowhere? It's not the first time that this router has been mentioned with regards to DNS not working properly.

Railgun said:

MAC address has nothing to do with your location in the context of location aware sites. No website knows what your MAC address is and even if they did, its information is irrelevant in terms of location as, being a physical device, can be located anywhere.

Click to expand...

Many location aware sites depend on geolocation abilities of your browser, which can lookup a location in the geolocation database based upon the MAC of your router (assuming it's Wi-Fi enabled), and report it back to the site in the form of a location.

See https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/business/geolocation/

I'm not suggesting that this method is what every site is using, but it's certainly becoming more prevalent, and wouldn't surprise me if this was the issue OP is having. Your point about DNS potentially causing the issue is a very viable option as well.

I see. That works great for mobile clients and Google/PC based browsers should know the difference. Needless to say, this is a horrible implementation as it doesn't work for home users given Google will never automatically correspond my bssid with where I am.

Railgun said:

I see. That works great for mobile clients and Google/PC based browsers should know the difference. Needless to say, this is a horrible implementation as it doesn't work for home users given Google will never automatically correspond my bssid with where I am.

Click to expand...

That's where the street car and mobile devices come into play. If your router is broadcasting and the Google streetcar drives down your street, it will associate your bssid with your location. From then on, if a page requests location and your browser on your home PC (connected to the same AP) calls Google's geolocation service, it'll be pretty close. Similar story if someone with an Android phone and the right services running (probably something they opt-in to when they install a particular app, I guess) jogs past your house.

Railgun said:

MAC address has nothing to do with your location in the context of location aware sites.

Click to expand...

Very well. Netgear WNDR3400 router (with latest firmware) Basic Settings has this option:



EarthDog thanked you implying you are correct, however, let's put that to the test and you can then comment with explanations.

Under Router default settings as pictured above, I have a problem... my IP address is being reported as being in Austin Texas, whereas I am in Kansas City metro, Kansas.


Let's see what would happen if I do mess with the Router MAC address setting:

PRESTO! When I changed the Router MAC address setting from Default to Computer MAC, the problem was fixed. Please post what the implications of this are.

pcgamer4life said:

That's where the street car and mobile devices come into play. If your router is broadcasting and the Google streetcar drives down your street, it will associate your bssid with your location. From then on, if a page requests location and your browser on your home PC (connected to the same AP) calls Google's geolocation service, it'll be pretty close. Similar story if someone with an Android phone and the right services running (probably something they opt-in to when they install a particular app, I guess) jogs past your house.

Click to expand...

They'd better be asking me to do that...

http://innovationlawblog.org/2010/06/google-agrees-to-turn-over-captured-wifi-data/

While I'm all for improving user experience, I don't need them to tell me what's in my own town. The wheel is being reinvented here.

c627627 said:

EarthDog thanked you implying you are 100% correct, however, let's put that to the test and you can then comment with explanations.

Under Router default settings as pictured above, I have a problem... my IP address is being reported as being in Austin Texas, whereas I am in Kansas City metro, Kansas.


Let's see what would happen if I do mess with the Router MAC address setting:

PRESTO! When I changed the Router MAC address setting from Default to Computer MAC, the problem was fixed. Please post what the implications of this are.

View attachment 159173 View attachment 159174

Click to expand...

The implications are that it's a half-assed fix for something that isn't broken. As you've seen, it doesn't always work, nor should it. It's a horrible way to determine location for home based clients. The same thing can occur in the enterprise. The other thing to note is that your IP address is being reflected differently. Regardless of what your MAC address is that your router sees, that's a constant and should NOT change. That too is a problem.

This is where google thinks I am. While it's accurate enough (the pinpoint isn't where I am), I don't know exactly what it's sending. A trace will (and does) only show some javascript being sent. I'd need to see what it's pulling to see what's it's actually sending.



The MAC address, beyond whatever hack Google is doing, is not used in the strictest sense of location on the server side. Managing an infinite number of MAC addresses is a horrible way to do this, as you've just shown. Devices come up and go down all the time. Realtime updating for something as wide spread and dynamic as this is ridiculous. And I can't imagine Google thinks that home users need to know that the closest Starbucks is 400 feet away, or some other targeted advertising is necessary to that detail. The fact that I'm in London is good enough, and that can be done with much less overhead.

All right.

Be all that as it may, changing Router Mac address DID fix the problem... we can talk about why and better ways to fix the problem and comment generally about the nature of it... but we are getting lost as to what this is all about. As usual, Average Joe perspective is useful. Here's what happens when changing Router MAC default address:


1. Go to a major national retailer's web site, Walmart or whatever.
2. The moment you click on Free Pickup at the store, you are presented with store locations near you.

Changing Router's MAC addresses setting results in store locations near you being displayed correctly, rather than 800 miles away.



>>> Average Joe or Jane couldn't CARE LESS about what Google does or does not do or anything else. <<<
All they care about is this: Was the problem fixed by changing the Router MAC address?

Yes!

Railgun said:

They'd better be asking me to do that...

http://innovationlawblog.org/2010/06/google-agrees-to-turn-over-captured-wifi-data/

While I'm all for improving user experience, I don't need them to tell me what's in my own town. The wheel is being reinvented here.

Click to expand...

AFAIK, they don't need any special permission to capture the publicly broadcasted bssid. Connecting to unsecured networks is another story, though. I agree that it isn't a perfect solution, but it has some benefits. Consider users living in a large metro area serviced by a single ISP. IP-based location wouldn't be precise enough to show a user where his closest Home Depot is, or walking/public transit directions to the nearest bakery.

In any event, we've derailed a little bit and I'm not so sure that geolocation is the OP's problem. Changing your router's MAC did resolve your location issues, but the fact that your IP address changed so much implies that that location is being derived from the IP (or routes that traffic is taking because of that IP). It seems that your ISP is assigning your IP address from a range that is different from the one that services your area. This implies that your ISP is actually deriving your location based on the MAC that's reported to them.

Seems like an issue with your ISP.

Aha. But I've tested multiple routers and no other router has this problem, and only the Netgear WNDR3400 router does...
So whatever the ISP is doing, it's not affecting other routers. That is also true.

Maybe the ISP is using MAC to determine a (presumably) rough location (perhaps with the methodology we talked about above, perhaps not), and then assigning an IP from a range based on that location.

Just for fun, change the MAC of your Netgear router to one of the MACs of another router that you've tested and don't have issues with.

It's time consuming and involved, I need to interrupt my house internet service to do it... but if there is no problem without the router and there is no problem with any other router and there is no problem once ther problem router's MAC default MAC address is not being used... then something's gotta be up with that router's default MAC address...