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False Specs on GTX 970?

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The suit, filed earlier this month, alleges that the 500MB segment of VRAM runs 80 percent slower than the 3.5GB of actual GDDR5, and that the card has fewer ROPs, or render output units, and less L2 cache than advertised (this is the biggest issue, as the data listed in the GTX 970 reviewer's guide incorrectly stated the ROPs and L2 cache numbers).

According to Anandtech, Nvidia's technical marketing team wasn't aware of the device's specific limitations when it created the reviewer's guide, and the error managed to slip through various layers of oversight at Nvidia before making it out to the press and public. Again, the GTX 970 does have 4GB of GDDR5 VRAM, but the fewer ROPs (56, as opposed to 64) and smaller L2 cache (1792kb as opposed to 2048kb) affect the way the card can access that last 500MB chunk of VRAM, as we explained in January. Misstating those specs is what now has Nvidia in hot water.

Source

I am sure all of this has already been said but just keeping those up to speed in case they missed it including myself. :p

There's lots of speculation on why this happened or if it was done on purpose. Those with legal experience, monopolizing etc. might be able to explain some theories.

My theory if it makes sense in anyway would be, its possible this was done on purpose by Nvidia, since they are way ahead of AMD as AMD has been on the slowdown in the CPU and GPU industry but because we're talking about GPUs here since they compete with Nvidia and are the only two in the market, we'll keep it GPU based. Its possible Nvidia could later on get fined for monopolizing the market, is one way of looking at this and price gouging since their GPUs jumped in price and that some GPUs who some of us believe should be their middle tier are their premium overpriced top tier.

Wasn't Microsoft fined in the 90s and early 2000s for trying to monopolizing the market and a few other tech companies? I remember something but can't put my finger on it.

Anyways, that's just a speculative theory (crazy talk) on my part but don't fully believe all that.
 
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I'm 'glad' to see an official response from nVidia for this situation, but ultimately they very easily could have had the card be a full 4GB (it isn't like a 4GB card is new territory now), but they wanted it to be less powerful than a 980, so they neutered it with 3.5gb+500mb of crappy VRAM.


OT:
Microsoft was fined in the 90s because of Internet Explorer being included in the OS, IIRC. Which is why they included Netscape or something along those lines, the details are fuzzy to, me.

edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.
 
It was the same thing that was said earlier. It has no bearing/relevance on the class action lawsuit really. I could care less if he was prompted or not.

Just an FYI, don't dig deeper. :p

What are you implying i'm "digging" for? You have me mistaken for someone else..
 
Is the GPU even able to address the full 4GB directly? I remember when PCs with 4GB RAM were only showing 3.5GB as they reserved 512MB for memory mapped I/O and whatnot. Are modern GPUs still 32 bit architectures?
 
It's totally different case. Can't compare graphics card max memory support to 32 bit OS limitations. So no modern graphics are not 32b. As you see this issue is only with GTX970. There are graphics cards up to 12GB on the market ( didn't check exactly what is max but I believe 12GB was max for workstation gfx in mass sales ).

I'm not sure if all this memory issue is Nvidia marketing team fault or they were trying to hide something. I guess we won't know that for sure. I only know that marketing departments usually get only small part of info about architecture and they pass to the public whatever looks good ( often without checking it ). In this case 4GB looks better than "4GB but .... " what could cause that many potential clients wouldn't be sure if it's good idea or not and would pick competition. Actually there is no big competition at this price point.
For enthusiasts and overclockers it's a huge difference. For gamers counts only that it's not performing at full speed at 3.5GB+. For people in sales/marketing it doesn't matter if it's graphics card, a car, table or whatever as long as they can sell it. Most of them can't understand what we see in this specification.
Still 99% people buy computers like they buy a dishwashers or microwaves so it's an issue but in large scale it doesn't really matter. Nvidia is sorry about it ( more sorry they lose reputation ) but will move on and I doubt anyone will remember about it in couple of months. Except maybe those who made cases in court as they will wait 1-2 years.

My theory if it makes sense in anyway would be, its possible this was done on purpose by Nvidia, since they are way ahead of AMD as AMD has been on the slowdown in the CPU and GPU industry but because we're talking about GPUs here since they compete with Nvidia and are the only two in the market, we'll keep it GPU based. Its possible Nvidia could later on get fined for monopolizing the market, is one way of looking at this and price gouging since their GPUs jumped in price and that some GPUs who some of us believe should be their middle tier are their premium overpriced top tier.

Actually the biggest graphics card manufacturer is still Intel with about 60% market shares. It's because of office computers where companies replace hardware more often than usual home users. Still most home users are not playing games ( or don't require expensive graphics card ).
Nvidia can't monopolize market with not much higher % sales than AMD ( if not lower but I don't remember how it looks like recently ). Other thing is that they have different departments, technologies and slightly different target consumers. I mean all that graphics calculations and business market where AMD is barely counting.

If we look at the prices then AMD went after Nvidia and raised prices the same for each generation in last ~7 years. I remember when high end cards cost $300-400 on both sides and there was nothing above that. Now it's $600-800.
Just before GTX600 Nvidia raised prices and lowered specification just because they had problems with mass production and they saw no big competition. Almost year later they were so proud that they have the highest marge on the market. Regardless of specification etc consumers were buying all these graphics cards, Nvidia wasn't lowering prices and AMD had nothing better to show.
AMD is not much better. They were serving us the same graphics chips for 3 years but refreshed with not big differences, still under new series. So what they really did in last 3-4 years ? Improved drivers and additional software.

Simply on the IT market there is always lesser evil but it's never perfect.
 
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I love the closing statements from Nvidia. Sorry guys, we'll do better next time. For now, ya'll enjoy the "features" of your gimped cards.
 
My thing is this... if it was the technical team that didn't give information to the marketing team, why do drivers STILL show the card with the full allotment of ROPs/Shaders? NVIDIA makes the drivers and software reads from the drivers their specs, right?

Regardless, its off-putting, but I will still but their cards, and still think the 970 is a hell of card outside of 4K which is where this problem would have a stronger propensity to show itself. 2560x1440 on down its more or less a non issue.
 
Is the GPU even able to address the full 4GB directly? I remember when PCs with 4GB RAM were only showing 3.5GB as they reserved 512MB for memory mapped I/O and whatnot. Are modern GPUs still 32 bit architectures?
Truth is a bit more delicate, there is many workaround for 32 bit limitations and some server 32 bit OS are able to utilize 128 GB RAM, so the issue was "consumer OS" only. VRAM doesnt count as system RAM, thats why some 32 bit games such as Skyrim can have expanded RAM by adding more VRAM. Although the system RAM is technically limited to 2 GB for single instances, trick is to use several instances (only works on 64 bit, else the OS will take the second instance and thats it) and a lot of VRAM.


Regarding Nvidia's statement the CEO did, its so far the most wise statement they did, just what i expect from a CEO. Because there is the agreement that there was failiures and that they didnt properly communicate and on top of that "we will do better next time", a clear hint of that they may feel somewhat sorry, although even more sorry for reputation lost i guess.

However, the true point is somewhat constantly missed. We have many cards with memory architectures that will allow for up to 12 GB VRAM, and the new Maxwell cards may even have problems achieving the full 4 GB VRAM speed because RAM architecture simply was gimped to much. This is in my mind a true issue because even the CEO knows pretty well that the RAM demand is increasing and true gamer cards are in need of 4 GB RAM or even more. The RAM architecture simply was gimped so hard that even the minimum RAM of 4GB can become a issue as soon as some cache removed for binning purposes (better wield). Funnily enough, RAM gimping is one of Nvidias most common issues and they did it again... so i hope they will learn from it and not always just look at the margin, which was certainly high enough in term of Maxwell, no matter the rather low price of the 970. Sure, looking at the issue in a optimistic way they added RAM that wasnt here before [3GB +1GB]... but a pessimist would say "they removed something that was here before [4 GB -1GB]" so it always depends on point of view and no one is neither right nor wrong.
 
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Nvidia Lawsuit Status?

Has anyone been following what the status is of said class-action lawsuit?

Seems like it fizzled out in the end of Feb, beginning of March.
 
The status is that there weren't enough people that actually cared enough to back it because the GPU performed just fine.
 
We already have a thread on this. I will merge shortly...

That said, it is a good question. I haven't heard anything since the end of February when they said they are starting the class action lawsuit. Perhaps ATM is right, or perhaps, like any class action lawsuit, it takes time to get started and get updates out.
 
I can only speak for me, I looked at the issue before I got one and it looked like less than %1 would ever see it, I don't see it.
 
I can only speak for me, I looked at the issue before I got one and it looked like less than %1 would ever see it, I don't see it.

I saw this just after I bought my first. I have seen the issue in 2 games, shadow of morridor and dying light. And I still would go this way over 980's for the price to performance ration. Funny thing is GTA V uses the same amount if VRAM as both those titles with no issue and the two with issues are both from the same publisher hmmmm
 
You would likely see the issue in those games with the 980 as well. Those games can gobble up 4GB of vram. ;)
 
Keep an eye for 6GBs (speculation) this summer or fall. That's if it totals out to be 6. silly-smiley.png
 
I'm happy with my 970, can't imagine myself paying for a 980 ($200 for 500mb of faster vram?). Maybe down the line, if its is needed I could get another 970. Currently it runs gtav great at 1440P. Surprisingly my gtx 670 4gb ran it pretty well also.
 
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