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AMD is slipping. A cost and benefit conversation.

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We overclockers need to remember the average user here.

I don't know any one in my family or friends that have a desire to have the most powerful processor made by either manufacturer as they are using their equipment in a much different way than myself.

My video card is generally 2 or 3 times more than what the average guy needs same as my cpu motherboard Ram and even the RAID 0 I just totally love to run.

I'm happy with FX vs i7. 8 real cores vs 4 with a feature and still loose when looking at numbers, but typing this to you, I could go back as far as socket A and when I hit submit, it'll still be forwarded to you guys in the same basic average everyday user manor.
 
ShrimpBrime said:
We overclockers need to remember the average user here.

I don't know any one in my family or friends that have a desire to have the most powerful processor made by either manufacturer as they are using their equipment in a much different way than myself.

My video card is generally 2 or 3 times more than what the average guy needs same as my cpu motherboard Ram and even the RAID 0 I just totally love to run.

I'm happy with FX vs i7. 8 real cores vs 4 with a feature and still loose when looking at numbers, but typing this to you, I could go back as far as socket A and when I hit submit, it'll still be forwarded to you guys in the same basic average everyday user manor.
Click to expand...

I think many people in these forums. Mostly youngsters, think that enthusiasts are the majority of computer users. When in fact we aren't even a blip on the radar as far as numbers are concerned.
 
Theocnoob said:
Sometimes it's huge (Pentium D to C2D, C2Q to i7, i7 1st gen to i7 2nd gen) and sometimes it's minor (Ivybridge to Haswell), but Intel never puts out a new CPU that's worse than their previous CPU, or "the same". There is always improvement.
Click to expand...

You skipped over Core "1" there, and left off Pentium 3 > Pentium 4, which arguably negates your "never puts out a new CPU that's worse" and "there's always improvement" claim.

Theocnoob said:
Let's compare that with AMD, who haven't been able to improve over the per-core performance of Phenom II. Now we have Intel releasing 14nm chips while AMD is still selling 32nm chips.
Click to expand...

You completely cut off AMD's history far later than you cut off Intel's history. It's easy to not have improvement if you pretend it never happened... :rolleyes:

You're also ignoring the APU line, which has seen plenty of improvement since it was started. Just because they stopped adding to AM3+ doesn't mean they stopped everything - you should also complain that Intel isn't continuing to offer improvements on socket 1156.

Mandrake4565 said:
As far as the Apu's go, if Intel feels that there is any real money to be made there. They will surely be able to produce chips that are equal to better then the Apu's AMD has.
Click to expand...

Except that they can't, because despite all their efforts, Intel's GPUs are still sticky feces.
 
Last edited:
ShrimpBrime said:
We overclockers need to remember the average user here.

I don't know any one in my family or friends that have a desire to have the most powerful processor made by either manufacturer as they are using their equipment in a much different way than myself.

My video card is generally 2 or 3 times more than what the average guy needs same as my cpu motherboard Ram and even the RAID 0 I just totally love to run.

I'm happy with FX vs i7. 8 real cores vs 4 with a feature and still loose when looking at numbers, but typing this to you, I could go back as far as socket A and when I hit submit, it'll still be forwarded to you guys in the same basic average everyday user manor.
Click to expand...

I have old Macs from like 1990 that I still putz around with. My favorite, a IIfx Motorola 68K 030 processors running at a robust 40 MHz. Was $10,000 base model in 1990. I have 64 megs of ram in it and a DayStar 60 MHz accelerator with 128K of L2. In that config it was about $15,000. There was a really good, thriving Mac cpu upgrade market until they went Intel. Sorry for the off topic banter.
 
petteyg359 said:
You skipped over Core "1" there, and left off Pentium 3 > Pentium 4, which arguably negates your "never puts out a new CPU that's worse" and "there's always improvement" claim.



You completely cut off AMD's history far later than you cut off Intel's history. It's easy to not have improvement if you pretend it never happened... :rolleyes:

You're also ignoring the APU line, which has seen plenty of improvement since it was started. Just because they stopped adding to AM3+ doesn't mean they stopped everything - you should also complain that Intel isn't continuing to offer improvements on socket 1156.
Click to expand...

You made some really valid points.
 
chrisjames61 said:
I have old Macs from like 1990 that I still putz around with. My favorite, a IIfx Motorola 68K 030 processors running at a robust 40 MHz. Was $10,000 base model in 1990. I have 64 megs of ram in it and a DayStar 60 MHz accelerator with 128K of L2. In that config it was about $15,000. There was a really good, thriving Mac cpu upgrade market until they went Intel. Sorry for the off topic banter.


I think many people in these forums. Mostly youngsters, think that enthusiasts are the majority of computer users. When in fact we aren't even a blip on the radar as far as numbers are concerned.
Click to expand...

which would bring a good point that most people's (average day users) run PCs that are 5 years old. upgrade when the hardware just can't hang anymore from lack of maintenance and usually boast a Dell or HP brand sticker regardless of cpu make and model.
 
chrisjames61 said:
I think many people in these forums. Mostly youngsters, think that enthusiasts are the majority of computer users. When in fact we aren't even a blip on the radar as far as numbers are concerned.
Click to expand...

i agree with you here, likely for every one of us there is a company somewhere buying droves of DELLs or HPs with pentium's or i3's even atoms or amd apu's. ive almost never seen an i5 or i7 or fx in a business setting, ontop of all of the home users everyone is just buying laptops now almost everything i work on these days are laptops very very few desktops.
source: im IT for a small construction company and i do outside IT/computer work on the side.
 
I would like to point out though that AMD is making improvements, the new Kaveri based cores are actually trumping the PhenomII in IPC which is something the FX couldn't do.
1090T @4.9 SPI32 14m 09.328
A10-7850K @ 4707 SPI32 14 min 3.092sec

Now this still doesn't help against Intel but it's improvement. AMD says they'll release a new enthusiast CPU in 2016 sometime which is going to be reworked from the ground up. They have made some big innovations in the past and they could again. We just have to wait and see.
 
wagex said:
i agree with you here, likely for every one of us there is a company somewhere buying droves of DELLs or HPs with pentium's or i3's even atoms or amd apu's. ive almost never seen an i5 or i7 or fx in a business setting, ontop of all of the home users everyone is just buying laptops now almost everything i work on these days are laptops very very few desktops.
source: im IT for a small construction company and i do outside IT/computer work on the side.
Click to expand...

The IT department I'm in has the latest top-of-the-line OptiPlex systems with i7-4770s. Anecdote battle, go!
 
petteyg359 said:
The IT department I'm in has the latest top-of-the-line OptiPlex systems with i7-4770s. Anecdote battle, go!
Click to expand...

The IT department has them. I mean come on. Of course the guys in the IT department who make buying decisions are going to have high-end machines. That is about as anecdotal as it gets. I bet the rest of the rank and file in your company are using Core2Duo's or maybe i3's.
 
chrisjames61 said:
petteyg359 said:
wagex said:
i agree with you here, likely for every one of us there is a company somewhere buying droves of DELLs or HPs with pentium's or i3's even atoms or amd apu's. ive almost never seen an i5 or i7 or fx in a business setting, ontop of all of the home users everyone is just buying laptops now almost everything i work on these days are laptops very very few desktops.
source: im IT for a small construction company and i do outside IT/computer work on the side.
Click to expand...
The IT department I'm in has the latest top-of-the-line OptiPlex systems with i7-4770s. Anecdote battle, go!
Click to expand...
The IT department has them. I mean come on. Of course the guys in the IT department who make buying decisions are going to have high-end machines. That is about as anecdotal as it gets. I bet the rest of the rank and file in your company are using Core2Duo's or maybe i3's.
Click to expand...

1. Please re-read the re-quoted context for the sake of context. wagex said he's almost never seen high-end desktop CPUs in a business settings. I have seen the opposite.
2. You didn't supply any anecdote of your own, only an attack on an anecdote, which is kind of silly, given it was already stated to be an anecdote.
 
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petteyg359 said:
1. Please re-read the re-quoted context for the sake of context. In case you didn't spot it, wagex said he's almost never seen high-end desktop CPUs in a business settings. That is called an anecdote.
2. You didn't supply any anecdote of your own, only an attack on an anecdote, which is kind of silly, given it was already stated to be an anecdote.
Click to expand...

I think it is pretty clear what I was trying to get across. If it went over your head I apologize.
 
Both places that I've worked at in the past year the majority of the systems are i5s/quad cores for employees and computers labs (that aren't VDI thin clients). Our location has about 5000 endpoints. One was in a medical center the other at a college.
 
interesting learn something new every day, i also live and work in a pretty rural area i guess it differs wherever you are. :)
 
ShrimpBrime said:
WWUUUTTTTT???

I mean who cares any more?
Click to expand...
Some of us do indeed care about whether or not AMD makes processors with good performance.

I genuinely hope AMD improves their CPU performance at some point, to at least get to the point where they are within striking distance of Intel so that there can be some competition in the market again. And so that I can have more reason to buy an AMD CPU for my main PC again.

Theocnoob said:
Case in point- Intel puts out new chips every year or so (2014 being an exception on the mainstream front, though we did get X99 on the enthusiast side) and they always have an increase in performance per clock. Sometimes it's huge (Pentium D to C2D, C2Q to i7, i7 1st gen to i7 2nd gen) and sometimes it's minor (Ivybridge to Haswell), but Intel never puts out a new CPU that's worse than their previous CPU, or "the same". There is always improvement.
Click to expand...
Not true.

The Intel "Netburst" architecture was a failure on a massive scale, not only was it less efficient than their previous architecture, it put them even further behind AMD when the Athlon 64 architecture came out a short time later. They ran hot and required a lot of power to run.

The "Itanium" was also considered bad.

wagex said:
i agree with you here, likely for every one of us there is a company somewhere buying droves of DELLs or HPs with pentium's or i3's even atoms or amd apu's. ive almost never seen an i5 or i7 or fx in a business setting, ontop of all of the home users everyone is just buying laptops now almost everything i work on these days are laptops very very few desktops.
source: im IT for a small construction company and i do outside IT/computer work on the side.
Click to expand...

Actually, the last company I worked at for an extended period was exclusively buying i5-equipped PC's for their Desktop's, All-in-one PC's, and Laptop's. That was actually for all of their departments, weirdly, even for the departments where they didn't need that much speed.

So, there are some companies out there that buy higher-end CPU's in their PC's.
 
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Tech Tweaker said:
Some of us do indeed care about whether or not AMD makes processors with good performance.

I genuinely hope AMD improves their CPU performance at some point, to at least get to the point where they are within striking distance of Intel so that there can be some competition in the market again. And so that I can have more reason to buy an AMD CPU for my main PC again.


Not true.

The Intel "Netburst" architecture was a failure on a massive scale, not only was it less efficient than their previous architecture, it put them even further behind AMD when the Athlon 64 architecture came out a short time later. They ran hot and required a lot of power to run.

The "Itanium" was also considered bad.



Actually, the last company I worked at for an extended period was exclusively buying i5-equipped PC's for their Desktop's, All-in-one PC's, and Laptop's. That was actually for all of their departments, weirdly, even for the departments where they didn't need that much speed.

So, there are some companies out there that buy higher-end CPU's in their PC's.
Click to expand...

I am not aware of any other time except for PIII to PIV where Intel's IPC actually went down though.
 
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