Okay, how do I do this? Need help with boot issues.

I'm working on sprucing up an old computer for a small church down the road.

Now before anyone says, "It's a piece of junk and not worth spending time on. The church needs to do a total upgrade of their hardware!" I already know that. And it may come to that. But the congregation doesn't have a lot of bucks and I'm trying to get them by for the short run until they can make a decision about what to do. Besides, it's becoming a challenge and a learning experience for me.

Here's what they started with: Socket 754 motherbord with an AMD 64 3200+ CPU. 1 gb of DDR 400 RAM which I upgraded to 2gb. Windows 7. Two hard drives. One hard drive is an old 5gb formatted in FAT32. From the pic you can see it is the system drive ("Old HD"). Yet, Windows and all the software are on the other drive, a 300 WD Raptor that I substituted for the old 40gb drive that was in the computer. I cloned the 40gb onto the 300 gb Raptor and after going through the series of terminal commands was able to get the computer to boot into Windows with the 300 gb raptor: http://windowsitpro.com/systems-management/build-bootable-bcd-scratch-bcdedit

But here's the kicker: The computer still needs the 5gb FAT 32 drive connected in order to boot. When I look at the drives in disk management the thing that stands out to me is that the 5gb drive is still labeled as the system drive. Apparently, someone who previously worked on the computer did not remove the 5gb drive (which probably had one of the early Windows OS that still used FAT32 on it at some point) when upgrading the OS to Windows 7 and allowed it to retain the status of system drive.

How do I change the system label over to the 300 gb Raptor where Windows and all the other software live?

Is it just mislabeled or does it really contain bootinformation like mbr? You could give bootsect a try and see if you can fix / add the bootinformation on Disk 1. It's been a while using it though, but as a first idea

A little quick googling reveals that bootsect was a command that is not used by Windows 7. It was for Windows Vista.

I've tried repairing/suppyling/fixing the MBR on the big drive where the OS lives to no avail with several terminal commands to no avail. I created a rescue disk and used it to try automatic repair and to use several different boot repair terminal commands.

Hey trents, just a little brainstorming...

...It is my understanding that Win 7 is NTFS or similar but n0t Fat 32 at all. So it would be very unclear to me if the system reserved ~100MB file would be on that 5G drive. So what is there? Can you see anything in explorer? If that 100MB file did just happen to be on the FAT 32 drive, that file is movable.

Have you imaged that 5G dumpling so in case of error you can at least get booting again? I think I would.

This may assist also and pretty quick in the link it tells how to find the that small reserved partition.

How To Open Hidden System Reserved Partition In Windows 7

Let us hear from you if you wish to try looking further.

RGone...

EDIT:
I now doubt by 100% that the system reserved partition got made on that FAT 32 5G drive.
Question > I have a 300 MB FAT32 partition as the 1st partition on the HDD I'm going to install win7 on. Will it use that to put the bootloader / BCD on since it puts the bootloader on the 1st partition on the disk (effectively 'creating' a system reserved partition)? Or should I convert it to NTFS before the install?

Answer > When clean-installing, if there are no previous boot engines, boot files will be located to the first active drive and the drive must be NTFS. Therefore you need to convert the partition to NTFS.
END EDIT.

RGone said:

...It is my understanding that Win 7 is NTFS or similar but n0t Fat 32 at all. So it would be very unclear to me if the system reserved ~100MB file would be on that 5G drive. So what is there? Can you see anything in explorer? If that 100MB file did just happen to be on the FAT 32 drive, that file is movable.

Have you imaged that 5G dumpling so in case of error you can at least get booting again? I think I would.

No, but it boots fine as long as the 5gb drive is connected along with the 300gb drive. If either is not connected no bootie. What I really would like to do is a fresh reinstall of Windows and all the software but I'm not sure they have the install disks for everything. I'm sure various people have done this and that to the system over the years and some of them may no longer be around.

This may assist also and pretty quick in the link it tells how to find the that small reserved partition.

How To Open Hidden System Reserved Partition In Windows 7

Let us hear from you if you wish to try looking further.

RGone...

EDIT:
I now doubt by 100% that the system reserved partition got made on that FAT 32 5G drive.
Question > I have a 300 MB FAT32 partition as the 1st partition on the HDD I'm going to install win7 on. Will it use that to put the bootloader / BCD on since it puts the bootloader on the 1st partition on the disk (effectively 'creating' a system reserved partition)? Or should I convert it to NTFS before the install?

Answer > When clean-installing, if there are no previous boot engines, boot files will be located to the first active drive and the drive must be NTFS. Therefore you need to convert the partition to NTFS.
END EDIT.

Click to expand...

No, I cannot see the 5gb drive in explorer, RGone.

There could not be any necessary boot files for the Windows 7 OS on the small FAT32 drive could there? Two entirely different file systems. Or can the MBR for any Windows OS live in FAT32?

Just had a brain storm. Maybe I can read the little drive in Linux Live.

RGone, I downloaded and ran Open Hidden System Drive as per the link you gave. The program found no hidden system drive.

Well, I am able to view the files and folders on the 5gb drive with Linux Live. Looks pretty much like it has been used as a system drive in the past. Out of view in the pic is a folder labeled "Windows". I had to crop the picture as it exceeded the forum size limit.

https://neosmart.net/wiki/easybcd/basics/changing-the-boot-partition/

Download Page [Scroll Down and use any Name & Email to Download]
https://neosmart.net/Download/Register/1

Here goes my last brainstorming...

...This is very close to your situation "trents".

I had an issue with Windows 7 not booting once I removed an old hard drive that had Windows XP on it. I had thought this would go seamlessly but apparently my 'System' volume was set to the old drive.

Getting rid of this issue was a pain to say the least.

The windows 7 disk was the first attempt to remove the NTLDR error, even tho it doesnt make sense as that is only need for XP.

Anyways, choosing "STartup repair" and similar from the Windows 7 disk did not fix the problem even though it found items to repair each time.

I ended up fixing the issue after doing two things:

-Disabling the 'Quick Boot' option in the BIOS
-Eventually selecting the system restore option


I find it goofy that this worked, especially since the restore would still be using the old HD in my mind. However, maybe the non-quick boot allowed the system to do a deeper check and not fail instantly on the NTLDR error?


Okay I like what c627627 posted about EasyBCD. I even gave him a "thanks". Now that I have thought further and found that link I put up above, some concerns come to mind and is why I asked had you imaged that 5Gig hard drive in case of problems.

What comes to mind is that "nothing" I find says that any part of Win 7 would reside on FAT 32 partition, but I bet it is. Most of what I searched did not have mentions of folks that upgraded WinXP to Win 7 and there maybe the rub. Most posts/threads today are not going way back to upgrades to Win 7 from within WinXP. That is what you think has happened. Win XP to Win 7 without a clean install. In this case the boot files are likely hung out there on that 5G hard drive. Sounds like it anyway.

Now I don't know exactly how EasyBCD is going to work its' magic. Will it move the files from that 5G drive or will it "create" new boot files. You can copy most files from FAT 32 Partition to an NTFS partition so should be no problem there if EasyBCD moves boot files. Certainly if EasyBCD creates a new boot manager...well just awesome. But I still would have good images of both drives so you could get back to at least booting if a problem arises. Just me. The ole faht.

I mean I know you are like a hound after a rabbit about this deal, but it is not making you any further coins. I have come to something similar before and just left the raggedly ole drive in and let user go on about their business, since it seemed no Win 7 CD was around and the user was going to need to purchase copy of Win 7. Now days the price for Win 7 when found is exorbitant since M$ quit selling it in Oct 2013.

RGone...

Okay, it's fixed now. Although I'm not entirely sure what was the real crux of the remedy.

The church decided to anti up and pay me to build them a modern computer. So I took the parts out of the old one I had already used to breathe some new life into it, i.e. the 300 gb Raptor drive and 2 gb of DDR400, since they weren't going to use the old puter anymore anyway. I put the old memory back in and the old hard drive. But it wouldn't boot with the old hard drive in. Since it had been booting with the 300 gb Raptor together with the 5 gb Quantum I decided to clone the 300 gb drive back to the 40gb drive. But Acronis True Image balked at this. When Acronis finds corrupted files on a disk it will not clone it.

So, I put the 300 gb drive in the docking cradle on my own computer and ran chkdsk /f which found errors on the drive and corrected them. Now, Acronis cloned the 300 gb drive back to the 40 gb with no problem.

But the church's computer would still not boot unless the 5 gb Quantum was connected to the system. I disconnected the 5gb drive and booted into Windows 7 Rescue. Rescue said it found problems with the boot record. I let it try an automatic repair and bingo! Now the system will boot without the 5 gb Quantum connected. I'm almost positive I tried that yesterday but maybe not.

Since the 5 gb drive was listed in the bios boot order was the Windows installation on the bigger drive resorting to using a valid bootloader file on the small drive because it's own bootloader was not valid?

Thanks for all your suggestions. All's well that ends well as the old saying goes. But I'm not sure if I really learned anything and that's what bothers me.

Oh yes you learned something for sure. Booting to that Rescue DVD and letting Win 7 repair its' boot manager was the fix.

RGone...

Both times I installed a Windows Technical Preview (8 and 10) I had two hard drives in my PC. Each time I decided to uninstall the new OS and use one of the HDDs for storage , formatting the drive , etc.. Each time , my computer wouldn't boot afterward. I finally figured the MBR was on the second drive , not the drive with the OS. Windows seems to do that , along with frequently hiding my recycle bin on the second drive , too. Windows 7 is no better. If it's run with two drives Windows will start hiding stuff on it apparently. Startup repair/system restore is the only way I've ever been able to fix the problem , and only after pulling the second HDD.
Now the part that drove me nuts. After getting everything up and running on one HDD , I'd put the second drive in and figure 'problem solved'. HA! Pull the second drive out a week later for whatever and it won't boot , and we're doing it all over again. LOL At least I bypass all the WTF now and just do the repair/restore fix and be done with it.

Yo bro, you resonate with me!

- - - Updated - - -

Alaric said:

Both times I installed a Windows Technical Preview (8 and 10) I had two hard drives in my PC. Each time I decided to uninstall the new OS and use one of the HDDs for storage , formatting the drive , etc.. Each time , my computer wouldn't boot afterward. I finally figured the MBR was on the second drive , not the drive with the OS. Windows seems to do that , along with frequently hiding my recycle bin on the second drive , too. Windows 7 is no better. If it's run with two drives Windows will start hiding stuff on it apparently. Startup repair/system restore is the only way I've ever been able to fix the problem , and only after pulling the second HDD.
Now the part that drove me nuts. After getting everything up and running on one HDD , I'd put the second drive in and figure 'problem solved'. HA! Pull the second drive out a week later for whatever and it won't boot , and we're doing it all over again. LOL At least I bypass all the WTF now and just do the repair/restore fix and be done with it.

Click to expand...

Alaric, the only way I have found to bypass what you go thru is to format my use everyday drive before I put windows on it. That way Win 7 does not put boot files in hidden reserved mini-partition. Then when I install winders on another drive to use in the same system, I unhook my normal booting drive and install test O/S or use test O/S in some sort of virtual machine. Windows is a silly creature for cetain.

RGone...

It seems that even when I install my OS on a single drive , then add a second drive at a later time , the offspring of Bill Gates and Beelzebub (winders) will immediately start hiding things on the second drive. Recycle bins in particular pop up all over the place like pimples before the prom. LOL. I'm going to do a clean install soon , in preparation for Win 10. I'll reformat (maybe buy a SSD finally!) and try again. I want a completely updated , naked , copy of Win 7 to commit to DVD anyway.

RGone said:

Alaric, the only way I have found to bypass what you go thru is to format my use everyday drive before I put windows on it. That way Win 7 does not put boot files in hidden reserved mini-partition. Then when I install winders on another drive to use in the same system, I unhook my normal booting drive and install test O/S or use test O/S in some sort of virtual machine. Windows is a silly creature for cetain.

RGone...

Click to expand...

And I would add that I find I need to disconnect the first drive before plugging in a different system drive or bad criss cross things happen.