FEATURED AMD ZEN Discussion (Previous Rumor Thread)

EarthDog · Oct 26, 2016

It was a LONG time ago when AMD was faster clock for clock than Intel... AMD lost the crown when Core 2 Duo came out............ in 7/2006. That is 10 years ago, a long time in almost anyone's book.

IPC performance is just about set at this point. They need to bring the clockspeed and fit it in a power/thermal envelope and deliver it already.

wingman99 · Oct 26, 2016

ShrimpBrime said:
Yes sir.

http://meseec.ce.rit.edu/551-projects/fall2015/2-2.pdf

I found this. AMD's Zen core (family 17h) to have ten pipelines per core.

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_(microarchitecture) Reference Link 23

ShrimpBrime · Oct 26, 2016

Dolk said:
0 of that pdf/power point explains that Zen has a shorter pipeline. I'm also pretty sure that the power point is for a class.

The real answer is, no one knows until AMD says it. You can speculate all you want, but the truth is that AMD went with a new architecture. We will know more about it in the coming months.

It does actually state that in the PDF and I quoted it in the PDF.

After a quick question to TheStilt about the pipelines, he said and I don't feel like digging to quote....

Expect about 15% shorter pipelines.

Longer Pipelines brings big clocks. We saw that with BullDozer Vishera processors.

Again.

AMD is now abandoning the long pipeline used in Bulldozer for a shorter
pipeline in Zen.

http://meseec.ce.rit.edu/551-projects/fall2015/2-2.pdf

@ Wingman,

This stuff has been discussed all over the place. Since the leaked details, we can create a pretty decent picture of what to expect.

The 128bit floating point vs the 256bit it should have will be a hurt in some areas and others may not make a big difference.

I have no opinion to share about it all at this time.

amd-and-the-new-zen-high-performance-x86-core-at-hot-chips-28-12-1024.jpg

cdawall · Oct 27, 2016

Couple of things wrong there. Pentium D used the same 31 stage pipeline, the Intel Pentium is not the cpu they are talking about the netburst architecture is and I assume they mean from the Pentium D to the core 2 duo or core solo, but who knows from that excerpt I don't think they know their head from their ***.

Oh and I expect nothing. 15% shorter pipeline? Way to pull numbers from your ***.

Woomack · Oct 27, 2016

I don't remember what exactly was inside but if I'm right then Pentium D was still Netburst, something like dual core P4 so I doubt there were any significant changes. Like cdawall said I also think that they mean switch from P4/PD to C2D/C2Q/C2S.

cdawall · Oct 27, 2016

Woomack said:
I don't remember what exactly was inside but if I'm right then Pentium D was still Netburst, something like dual core P4 so I doubt there were any significant changes. Like cdawall said I also think that they mean switch from P4/PD to C2D/C2Q/C2S.

Pentium D was two P4's glued together, still netburst and still junk.

petteyg359 · Oct 27, 2016

Woomack said:
I don't remember what exactly was inside but if I'm right then Pentium D was still Netburst, something like dual core P4 so I doubt there were any significant changes. Like cdawall said I also think that they mean switch from P4/PD to C2D/C2Q/C2S.

Everybody seems to be forgetting that before there was Core 2, there was Core (when they went back to Pentium 3/M base after they realized that Pentium 4 was a garbage fire).

wingman99 · Oct 27, 2016

List of Intel CPU microarchitectures Pipeline stages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_CPU_microarchitectures

EarthDog · Oct 27, 2016

Isn't core/core2 the same thing? Conroe...merom...Woodcrest chips? Except core 2 had 2 Conroe, merom, or Woodcrest cores in one die?

Oh, I know... those yonah based chips...heh..

petteyg359 · Oct 27, 2016

EarthDog said:
Isn't core/core2 the same thing? Conroe...merom...Woodcrest chips? Except core 2 had 2 Conroe, merom, or Woodcrest cores in one die?

Oh, I know... those yonah based chips...heh..

No, 2 cores was "Duo". There were single-core versions of both. Core Solo, Core Duo, Core 2 Solo, Core 2 Duo.

M@rk · Oct 27, 2016

And these lame core 2 quads with 2 dies where you could disable 1 die and turn it into a core 2 duo.

ShrimpBrime · Oct 29, 2016

cdawall said:
Couple of things wrong there. Pentium D used the same 31 stage pipeline, the Intel Pentium is not the cpu they are talking about the netburst architecture is and I assume they mean from the Pentium D to the core 2 duo or core solo, but who knows from that excerpt I don't think they know their head from their ***.

Oh and I expect nothing. 15% shorter pipeline? Way to pull numbers from your ***.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1579520/zen-hyper-thread/700#post_25589964

Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

Would like to ask about the pipelines if you would Mr. TheStilt. Any comment here?

I don't know the exact figures, but Zen should have at least 15% shorter pipeline than 15h family. Definitely not longer biggrin.gif

You tell HIM that, not me. He's probably the closest thing to an Electrical Engineer you'll ever meet and has a full understanding of AMD's hardware.

cdawall · Oct 29, 2016

ShrimpBrime said:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1579520/zen-hyper-thread/700#post_25589964

You tell HIM that, not me. He's probably the closest thing to an Electrical Engineer you'll ever meet and has a full understanding of AMD's hardware.

I have probably talked with him more than you think

Also read his post carefully at how loosely he states pipeline length there is reason for that.

ShrimpBrime · Oct 29, 2016

cdawall said:
I have probably talked with him more than you think Also read his post carefully at how loosely he states pipeline length there is reason for that.

White papers are not released yet, so the solid information is not there. But never the less, I trust his guesstimates and judgments more over the hear say.

cdawall · Oct 29, 2016

ShrimpBrime said:
White papers are not released yet, so the solid information is not there. But never the less, I trust his guesstimates and judgments more over the hear say.

Thing is if he knew more than a shot in the dark he wouldn't be able to say it because that is how an NDA works.

ShrimpBrime · Oct 29, 2016

NDA that nobody can hold against him if he is making an educated guess.

Obviously the low clock speeds we see with the ES chip at 2.8ghz is a pretty good indication of shorter pipelines.

That's all there really is to the conversation. I didn't ask form more information.

Pipelines are definitely not longer.

Again, if you want to argue what HE said.... go to that forum and take it up with him. I personally don't have a care to post in this forum against you on a pipeline argument which you can already see the plain outcome of.

cdawall · Oct 29, 2016

ShrimpBrime said:
NDA that nobody can hold against him if he is making an educated guess.

Read what you wrote again. He made an educated guess he doesn't know for sure anything. That is the point I am making. ANY person could assume they are going to be between 15 and 40% shorter pipelines based off of the performance per clock change. That is simple math, but it could also be completely wrong, because at the end of the day it is a guess.

ShrimpBrime · Oct 29, 2016

Fully agree. Never said otherwise did I?

cdawall · Oct 30, 2016

ShrimpBrime said:
Fully agree. Never said otherwise did I?

No you literally pawned all of it off on The Stilt and tried to wash your hands of ever saying it.

ShrimpBrime · Oct 30, 2016

Well if he said it and seemingly you're the only one with some sort of conflict with the statement, take it up with him fella.

I do wash my hands clean of it. Can't handle that, take it to mommy whom may actually care.

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