FEATURED AMD ZEN Discussion (Previous Rumor Thread)

EarthDog · Feb 23, 2017

Janus67 said:
I was thinking the same thing. if i was going to upgrade I'd be getting the 8/16 CPU (probably the cheapest one), because I do virtualization and such. But if I just did basic gaming and normal day to day work on it, I still couldn't see much reason to get more than the 4/8. We've been talking about it for years that "games will be taking advantage of more cores this generation, just wait" and for the most part they don't really or if they do, the scaling isn't really worth the cost versus the extra money being spent on a higher end GPU. But maybe if it becomes increasingly mainstream to have more than 8 total threads then it will become more likely for devs to support it more. <looks into crystal ball>

Yep..for a gaming machine we say a quad is fine.. a quad with HT is, sometimes, better. Unless people are actually using a those cores, or more than 8t then there isn't a purpose to buy over a ryzen 4c/8t. At least, this is the way to maximize the buy over Intel anyway. For the same cost you can get more cores. Mobos are going to cost around the same, obviously ddr4 too.. so it comes down to cpu price difference really.

Dolk said:
Science time!

With the introduction of 14nm FET sizes, we kinda entered a new realm of material breakdown. We are very close to the point where electron drift (the instantaneous moment when electronics can freely float between atoms) will cause erratic behavior inside the materials. Now some materials account for this behavior and Semiconductors like to exploit it. However when the behavior becomes so intense, it becomes very detrimental affect to the CPU. This can cause lower resistance in gates, creating current leakage or it might cause the very well defined interconnects that must have a specific timing requirement to move faster (memory speed mismatch). There are a lot of things that can start to happen.

For more information on these challenges you should read this article: http://semiengineering.com/interconnect-challenges-grow-3/

But the long and short of it is this: Expect clocks to start to stabilize around a bell curve, influence of temperatures will not matter. The only way to circumvent this is by moving to newer materials.

And for those that really care: Maths https://web.stanford.edu/class/ee311/NOTES/InterconnectScalingSlides.pdf

As always, thanks for the info!

Do you expect their quad to scale like we are seeing Intel's quads...to 7 ghz? They are also on a 14nm FET process, though I am aware there are differences.

Woomack · Feb 23, 2017

We can pre-order processors but what about any good motherboards ? Most that I see are just standard gaming boards and not really higher series. Just some paint on them and flashy names.
Top MSI so far has 3200 memory support but again they used 64GB kit and tested on 2 memory slots while there are 4 on this board. The same made GB.
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-XPOWER-GAMING-TITANIUM.html#support-mem

http://www.asrock.com/mb/index.asp#AM4
ASRock has DDR4-2666 support

ASUS in CHVI added in description "3200+ 4 slot dual channel"

Johan45 · Feb 23, 2017

cdawall said:
It was in the first video that was another one from the Ryzen event. They set a new record for ryzen in cinebench [email protected] under ln2

Just did a bit more research on that and the highest 8 core at the bot right now is 5960x @ 6.0 2445. The 6900K isn't even close. The efficiency (if this is accurate) is incredible.

Also found this one of Ryzen

ATMINSIDE · Feb 23, 2017

If that's accurate... scaling with clocks is fantastic.

Johan45 · Feb 23, 2017

Just too bad it runs out of gas so early

Kenrou · Feb 23, 2017

EarthDog said:
So many people suddenly use so many cores!

I always said I do video editing so I'm covered

knoober · Feb 23, 2017

EarthDog said:
So many people suddenly use so many cores!

My feeling is that virtualization is going to become more accessible as folks become more computer literate. And there is a big push for that. What was an enthusiast/super user 5 years ago is average in the here and now. I also wouldn't be surprised if the OSs themselves dont begin having some sort of virtualization going on behind the scenes. Not this generation of course, but more cores will likely be mandatory within a few generations of hardware/software: even if games still only use 4 cores.

BTW that's fairly all science fiction and guessing. I couldn't 'puter my way out of a paper sack, but i like to dream of the cool new things that may happen in tech

ATMINSIDE · Feb 23, 2017

knoober said:
as folks become more computer literate.

Lol.

Woomack · Feb 23, 2017

I'm not sure what "regular" users can do with virtual machines and I'm not sure what gamers can do with more than 4-6 threads but sure more looks better for the same price.

I just count we will see a lot of OC results around the forums after ~100 pages of this #%%$@# rumours thread ...

Soulcatcher668 · Feb 23, 2017

Woomack said:
I'm not sure what "regular" users can do with virtual machines and I'm not sure what gamers can do with more than 4-6 threads but sure more looks better for the same price.

I just count we will see a lot of OC results around the forums after ~100 pages of this #%%$@# rumours thread ...

We can all build kick-*** servers, maybe?

Johan45 · Feb 23, 2017

If developers work with DX12, I'm sure that more than 6 threads will be relevant in the near future. There are already games that load an FX on all 8

I was just looking at that Woomack, This thread is close to a year old

DaveB · Feb 23, 2017

Bluefalcon13 said:
Only thing up for preorder are the Ryzen 7s. No word on what that means for the smaller ones. I'm hoping the preorder is cause the 8cores are more supply constrained. Probably wishful thinking though.

Reports are that you'll have to wait until Q2 for Ryzen 5 and 2H sometime for Ryzen 3.

mackerel · Feb 23, 2017

One week to go, then let the masses start OC and benching!

I don't actually have a specific use planned for mine, and it will in part depend on how it works out for compute uses, which can use anything I throw at it. Especially interesting as one piece of software I use has recently been made multi-threaded although I didn't see great scaling beyond 4 threads on an earlier (buggy) version with a 14 core Xeon. I might also finally get around to processing some astro imaging data I got last month... it just kills my main PC when it runs.

Woomack · Feb 23, 2017

So I wonder what will be real OC/performance difference between 1700 and 1700X as I see $100 difference between them and I will OC it manually anyway.

Johan45 · Feb 23, 2017

Who knows, might OC better w/o the XFR

Soulcatcher668 · Feb 23, 2017

Woomack said:
So I wonder what will be real OC/performance difference between 1700 and 1700X as I see $100 difference between them and I will OC it manually anyway.

How intensive would a binning process be? Would you be guaranteed a better chip with the 'X' suffix I wonder?

BuRgLaR · Feb 23, 2017

Hmmm the new 1800x just broke a Cinebench world record..... Although by only 39 points....

If you don't find this impressive you should considering what it went up against on the Intel side.

I'm all in on Ryzen for sure now..... Here's to hoping AMD doesn't blunder this one

I'm hoping somewhere on the 4.4 side of things this mf'er is gonna scream.

I'm far too excited

cdawall · Feb 23, 2017

BuRgLaR said:
Hmmm the new 1800x just broke a Cinebench world record..... Although by only 39 points....

If you don't find this impressive you should considering what it went up against on the Intel side.

I'm all in on Ryzen for sure now..... Here's to hoping AMD doesn't blunder this one

I'm hoping somewhere on the 4.4 side of things this mf'er is gonna scream.

I'm far too excited

The 6950x scores upward of 2800 points. The only records amd is setting are for 8 core single chip setups. They took the last one by all of a couple points 2449 vs 2445.

Dolk · Feb 23, 2017

EarthDog said:
Yep..for a gaming machine we say a quad is fine.. a quad with HT is, sometimes, better. Unless people are actually using a those cores, or more than 8t then there isn't a purpose to buy over a ryzen 4c/8t. At least, this is the way to maximize the buy over Intel anyway. For the same cost you can get more cores. Mobos are going to cost around the same, obviously ddr4 too.. so it comes down to cpu price difference really.

As always, thanks for the info!

Do you expect their quad to scale like we are seeing Intel's quads...to 7 ghz? They are also on a 14nm FET process, though I am aware there are differences.

Very good question! That all depends on what 4 cores really is for AMD. Intel can cut up their wafers easily and have had great power control over their entire CPU a lot longer than AMD. So I'll say its going to be related what AMD does with that extra space and how they isolate it away from the rest of the cores.

I also have a feeling that if we can unlock the cores on AMD, than it will behave very similarly in OC potential to their higher core brothers.

Oh and, Everything is pre-ordered for me. Now I just need XSPC to send me an AM4 kit. Next weekend is going to be :comp:

Janus67 · Feb 23, 2017

I'm happy for everyone that has pre-ordered the cpu and such (good for my $AMD stock values), but I honestly don't see a reason why with the limited information that we have. We know results from cherry-picked AMD benchmarks, but AMD did the same thing when Dulldozer launched and soon was shown to be out performed by the PhenomII and older Intel CPUs with less cores. This isn't supposed to be a doom and gloom post, I sure as hell hope they can bring the performance back up to snuff and for a competitive price point. But I don't pre-order much of anything anymore without knowing everything there is to know about it before hand. So until I see numerous reviews, benchmarks, comparisons, heat reports, OC reports, cooling required, longevity issues, motherboard compatibility/ram compatibility/etc things posted I'm staying away from new hardware.

Now granted, you can take this with a grain of salt as I pre-ordered a Tesla 3 even before the official reveal to get in line to hopefully get one, but at least by the time I would get mine I could still get 100% of my money back and everything will be known about it by that time.

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