• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

New HWBot scoring.

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.
I think that a hardware/world record score should be worth well more than any competition that peice of hardware could possibly earn. within reason. I can see earning points with older hardware in a comp, but 50 points? - no, maybe 10 for a first and go down from there, and then the 1 point for just entering the comp
 
I think that a hardware/world record score should be worth well more than any competition that peice of hardware could possibly earn. within reason. I can see earning points with older hardware in a comp, but 50 points? - no, maybe 10 for a first and go down from there, and then the 1 point for just entering the comp
I'll take that as a 'yes'.
That my friend, is part of the problem. The mindset of 'it's not worth anything unless it's on LN2' has to be changed.
I can get 10 HW points on air without entering a comp.
Where's my motivation?
 
I am with you. I really dont like the comps getting any points for "our" league.

if they want to give points have a competition league for those users. That would allow people to enter them at their leisure rather than attempt to force people there.

If points are going to be kept as they are today for the long term. I dont think I would quit benching, but I would prolly just do it when I though I could get some real points just to help the team along. I have been at odds with Pieter and several others at the bot for years. I entered a few competitions that should have automatically gained me 1 point for each and got 1 point total.
 
I am with you. I really dont like the comps getting any points for "our" league.

if they want to give points have a competition league for those users. That would allow people to enter them at their leisure rather than attempt to force people there.

If points are going to be kept as they are today for the long term. I dont think I would quit benching, but I would prolly just do it when I though I could get some real points just to help the team along. I have been at odds with Pieter and several others at the bot for years. I entered a few competitions that should have automatically gained me 1 point for each and got 1 point total.

Just want to mention that I wasn't singling you or anybody on your team out. For the most part, you guys are good dudes and we at CP enjoy the little thing we got going on. I wouldn't want that to change because of anybodys opinion.
I remember the Dejo/Dejo's daughter thing well. I backed you then and still do now.
HWB will continue to do whatever they want, right or wrong. We're just along for the ride.
FWIW, comp points should have stayed the way they were. You get a point for playing, and thats it. Period. Again, my opinion.
Glad to see you back playing Jon. :)
 
This was my response to Massman, if anyone wants to follow the discussion the link is here

I do understand your position Pieter and I agree that competition should be rewarded in some way. I as well as others feel that the point system is a bit too heavy now on the competition side. Take me as an example, I enjoy the competitions so I have been "rewarded" for participation. I'm 50 pts behind Woomack who has spent years benching just about anything he could get his hands on. I would have to say he's made 1000's of submissions contributed almost 10k pts to the team and I am in no way his equal. I do agree that things need to evolve but just like nature if evolution is too drastic some things will go extinct.
I would like to comment on the point you made about the Challenger Div I,II,II and IV. The same platform could work for II and III only IMO. Div I is going to an X99 hands down as long as there are multi thread benches that don't go per core there's no way even with LN2 that a 4790k can compete against a 5690k. I host monthly competitions at OCF and the only way to get around that if they're in the same competition is to continue your "per core" submission as you did with XTU. Like single thread geekbench or WPrime result * # of cores. Otherwise they should be separated. Div II I have no intention of buying an i5 at this time so it's out. I would have used that $$ to buy some older HW for HW points but that almost seems like it won't get me anywhere. I compete in DivIV regularly which is AMD FX because that's where I feel I can be competitive. Not everyone has the luxury of running LN2 on a weekly basis to compete in all Div effectively. Since I believe that the majority of your members are just average working/family guys that also have other priorities.
So I guess the appearance is that if I went out and bought an X99 system, 980ti and an i5 I could easily surpass everyone on my team with competition points by competing well in every competition you have going. At least that's how some interpret the changes, there seems to be no reward any more for benching older HW unless you have whatever is picked for the old school competition and you could manage 50 pts for a piece of HW that would likely only get 2 HW pts in regular submission.
 
Thanks for the feedback, Shawn. Much appreciated!

At least that's how some interpret the changes, there seems to be no reward any more for benching older HW unless you have whatever is picked for the old school competition and you could manage 50 pts for a piece of HW that would likely only get 2 HW pts in regular submission.


I think that's true, and just to clarify, this is not done on purpose (as some people like to say). HWBOT has grown incredibly in the past ten years; not only in terms of user base, but also in terms of hardware and benchmarks. Back in 2006, there were only a few benchmarks at the bot and a couple generations of hardware less. I did some calculations this weekend and there are more than 40,000(!) hardware rankings at HWBOT generating over 1.7 million hardware points.

The relative value of a hardware point diminishes the more benchmarks and hardware is added to the database. Back in the day (2006) the OC League had a hardware points cap of 250 (if I remember correctly) and you could use as many scores you want to get to that cap. This gave more value to the low participation hardware categories. But this worked because a lot of the top guys had low hardware points. Look at Dancop - he's got over 3000 hardware points too!

The mathematical challenges involved in designing a mechanism that is able to cherish the low participation categories in an environment where there are so many rankings are not easy.

With the competitions having moved off site, we have a lot more breathing room for special competitions. Let's see where that goes. We can easily do 12 old school competitions a year, each with their own platform, and give the same value like the super-popular hardware categories.
 
The effort was noble. :rock:

You aren't going to force Hwbot's hand though, particularly when it comes to items that help reach their goals of further monetizing the site. The site doesn't get as much support ($) from partners if they don't run their comps. If they don't weigh it like it is, fewer people would participate in those comps... same result (not as much support/$). So it makes sense for THEIR goals of further monetizing the site. They can't bring us new features/maintain the site without it, I understand. But for those that have been involved at Hwbot several years already, its yet another tough pill to swallow as you have seen some of the responses here from some of the 'OGs'. I don't have the time to submit what I want, none the less participate and submit in comps (note this is AFTER trying to procure the hardware for them) to just to keep up with those that submit in comps. And the boints from comps only last for a year? I don't get that either.

The relative value of a hardware point diminishes the more benchmarks and hardware is added to the database.
Is that true though? The more benchmarks, the more hardware, and the more people submit on it, the more boints are available. BUT you are still neutered in the Top 20 hardware results anyway.

I don't know what the right answer is... I just know this doesn't seem like its it. Maybe times are just changing and I'm left screaming 'get off my lawn' in my best codgerlike voice... So be it. They don't need me, and I don't need them. It was a good several years though. :)
 
Yeah , I'm not sure how to respond to the last post yet. Pieter didn't really address the main issue and having more old school comps isn't the answer.
 
Shawn,

There is no response bro, I have been playing this game a long time.
your enthusiasm is contagious and appreciated.
While they will be polite, you are simply another disgruntled member they probably would rather not deal with.
Make no mistake as Joe eludes too above, this is a sponsor driven move to sell a larger diversity of hardware.
They can have as many old school comps as they want, the reality remains unchanged my friend.

In a nut shell, HWBot is driven by manufactures, not enthusiasts
it is all about the Benjamin's

:(
 
I do realize that there has to be some promotion for their sponsors. This isn't much different for most sites including our own. But from the outside it really does appear that first of all you need to compete in the competitions to get what I will call the 500Pt float. Now the hook is maintaining it. I'm good this year since I have HW that I can compete with. Now next year may be a different story, sure I'll likely be able to compete just not effectively unless I upgrade my system. So I'll start losing my points, again, encouraging me to upgrade to whatever Intel puts out next. Almost like a different form of chasing globals/WR. So year after year or two it will encourage an upgrade to remain competitive. Now many "benchers" will do this any way, there's also those who don't. Look at CP for instance, those guys have done very well, points wise, grinding away on older tech. Where does this leave member like that.
 
I haven't been around long so I'm not exactly sure of all the results this change will have. What I do know is that Massman is not being forthcoming. I submitted a score for a cpu that has maybe a handful of submissions on it. I did not receive a lot of points for it though. So where are all the points that should be available like he said? I don't think I received a whole point honestly. I'll look into it when I get home to be sure though. I've always gained points when I benched hardware that was more popular. So yeah...someone is bullshittin somewhere.
 
I submitted a score for a cpu that has maybe a handful of submissions on it. I did not receive a lot of points for it though. .

I think that is the answer, the less submission on a bench for specific HW the less point you get. This is the way it is. A good example is popular 775 CPUs. They may have many points available for something like Spi 1M since 1000 people ran that bench on that CPU and might be good for 30pts but you slide down to the Cinebench which was introduced after the 775 hey day and you might be able to get 2 pts.
 
I do realize that there has to be some promotion for their sponsors. This isn't much different for most sites including our own. But from the outside it really does appear that first of all you need to compete in the competitions to get what I will call the 500Pt float. Now the hook is maintaining it. I'm good this year since I have HW that I can compete with. Now next year may be a different story, sure I'll likely be able to compete just not effectively unless I upgrade my system. So I'll start losing my points, again, encouraging me to upgrade to whatever Intel puts out next. Almost like a different form of chasing globals/WR. So year after year or two it will encourage an upgrade to remain competitive. Now many "benchers" will do this any way, there's also those who don't. Look at CP for instance, those guys have done very well, points wise, grinding away on older tech. Where does this leave member like that.
OCF doesn't tell you that in order to get more stars(boints), you need to participate in specific threads(competitions)... and that it is easier to get more stars(boints) if you look at those threads versus the others.

It leaves members like that (who do not generally participate in comps) at a disadvantage when looking at the overall score. I love the idea of esports comps, but just not as it stands with the total boints. Its like saying to NASCAR drivers, that they have to compete in F1 to be crowned the overall champ and that F1 holds more value... completely not fair to those that do not participate in the other events.
 
I do realize that there has to be some promotion for their sponsors. This isn't much different for most sites including our own. But from the outside it really does appear that first of all you need to compete in the competitions to get what I will call the 500Pt float. Now the hook is maintaining it. I'm good this year since I have HW that I can compete with. Now next year may be a different story, sure I'll likely be able to compete just not effectively unless I upgrade my system. So I'll start losing my points, again, encouraging me to upgrade to whatever Intel puts out next. Almost like a different form of chasing globals/WR. So year after year or two it will encourage an upgrade to remain competitive. Now many "benchers" will do this any way, there's also those who don't. Look at CP for instance, those guys have done very well, points wise, grinding away on older tech. Where does this leave member like that.

Just a thought as I don't really know how this works but what are the chances of one (or more) of the manufactures sponsoring our team. Provide us with a few new items and hand them out to winners of different challenges. These items of course would remain either team property or manufacturer property depending on sponsorship rules. Just a though to discuss.
 
I wasn't implying that OCF was doing anything like that it was the opposite actually. About acquiring and maintaining points by continually upgrading which feeds the sponsors. Advertising and reviewing aren't even remotely the same.
 
Well aware that isn't what you are saying Shawn... just mentioning the dramatic differences in logistics between the two. There you have to participate where they want you to in order to get a fair crack at getting the most boints you can. Here, there is advertising everywhere, none of which funnel readers to specific sections and things to do to get the best out of the site, its just there. I deem advertising like OCF's a necessary evil. I deem HWbot's implementation of the new boints system a move to drive more money to their site...


...which is fine, but the implementation needs more work to be fair to those that don't compete in esports. There is a middle ground somewhere.
 
I think that is the answer, the less submission on a bench for specific HW the less point you get. This is the way it is. A good example is popular 775 CPUs. They may have many points available for something like Spi 1M since 1000 people ran that bench on that CPU and might be good for 30pts but you slide down to the Cinebench which was introduced after the 775 hey day and you might be able to get 2 pts.

But didn't Massman say that if a piece of hardware wasn't used as much it would be worth more points? At least that's how I interpreted it (I could be completely wrong). I was trying to point out that if that is what he meant then it is not true.
 
Back