Assessing damage and building back up.

don256us · Sep 3, 2015

[SOLVED] Assessing damage and building back up.

I have some real trouble with my farm. My three main farm rigs went down a few weeks ago and I was not able to troubleshoot them at all.

My new workstation build would send back results the instant the wu was downloaded. That turned out to be a date/time issue. I fixed that easy enough and got 4 of my 7970's going again.

My two other machines stopped working. One will not turn on. This is the unit with the power supply that I RMA'd a month or so ago. Same issue. Won't turn on at all. The other machine locks up the instant it boots up. These machines represent 6 x 7970's. I think that if I can make time this weekend, I will swap parts around until I get at least one working machine.

I don't know what my server is doing. I have one card in there that is not doing anything.

I just bought a 7990 but that didn't work so I sent it back and bought two more 7990's. One is installed and folding part time. The other just came in yesterday and I have not even unboxed it yet.

I'm looking to break in to that 1 mil ppd that has been so elusive for me. This is the problem with used equipment.

Nihilus · Sep 9, 2015

Wow, that is some serious dual precision power you have there! Your Vista machine must get 400k+ by itself. I'm waiting to get a 2nd 7970 just to hit 300k. Impressive stuff, good sir.

Jmtyra · Sep 10, 2015

don256us said:
I have some real trouble with my farm.
[...]
[...]
[...]
This is the problem with used equipment.

This is my EXACT fear! Do I buy new and know it's under warranty, or get really good deals on craig's list/ebay?
Once I get back into folding next year, I don't know what route to go. High initial price = better efficiency, but lower initial price = wife approved

Don, I hope you get your farm back up and running!

Nihilus · Sep 11, 2015

Don, you seem to be the Tahiti expert. Which drivers are you using? I get about 180k with the BEST work units running at 1225 core speed. I am also using Windows 7. I have the 15.2 amd drivers.

don256us · Sep 14, 2015

Nihilus said:
Don, you seem to be the Tahiti expert. Which drivers are you using? I get about 180k with the BEST work units running at 1225 core speed. I am also using Windows 7. I have the 15.2 amd drivers.

I use 13.9 but have been playing with 15.7.1. At this point, I still recommend 13.9. When I feel more confident with other drivers, I will post.

- - - Updated - - -

Jmtyra said:
This is my EXACT fear! Do I buy new and know it'd under warranty, or get really good deals on craig's list/ebay?
Once I get back into folding next year, I don't know what route to go. High initial price = better efficiency, but lower initial price = wife approved

Don, I hope you get your farm back up and running!

I had at least one card DOA but by the time I got it installed, it was too late to return it. I since had another card die, again, unable to return it. Right now I'm having trouble with two 7990's on the same machine. I'm also not able to get two of my machines up and running. I have a total of 10 7970's not running. I just bought a new power supply and will do some equipment "musical chairs" and see where that puts me.

I only just finished a prolonged roofing job on my house so I've been very slow to get things done on my folding farm.

Jmtyra · Sep 14, 2015

I hope you're successful in getting those GPUs up and running!

Even with those down, you're still averaging 500k+ ppd, very nice. :thup:

Nihilus · Sep 14, 2015

CCC says I have Driver package 15.201.1001 ?? They have been solid so far.

don256us · Sep 21, 2015

I had another card give up the magic smoke. This is really making me angry. This make four cards that are just junk.

I will not longer be getting a mass of used equipment from eBay. I've lost hundreds of dollars on this.

Jmtyra · Sep 21, 2015

Don, I'm curious about the failure rate you're experiencing. It seems to be spread across GPUs, motherboards and PSUs. Is there a possible issue with the source AC power? Could something else in the house (or even in your neighborhood), such as large equipment/motors, be causing sags/spikes/noise on the line that is harming the equipment? What are you using for power conditioning and surge protection?

Just thinking out loud, as it seems like more than just the GPUs.

Nihilus · Sep 21, 2015

I feel you don, I just got my 2nd 7970 on ebay and it ended up being junk. I should have ran it under 3dmark first - it would have saved me ALOT of troubleshooting. Fortunately, it looks like the seller will return it and I have already purchased another.
@ Jmytra - no offense, but I think you are grasping at straws. Many of these cards are 4 years old and have went through the gauntlet of the bit coin mining craze. I am curious to know if Tonga folds as well as Tahiti - especially since the 380x will be released soon.

One more token - I had to remove my arctic accelero on the top card since the lack of space built up heat. In the process, I applied some pk3 while returning to the stock cooler. I also tied the accelero Vram heatsink to the top card. Holy Moly! The gpu temps allow me to clock up to 1200 mhz at 75* C with comfortable noise levels. Before this mod, I would have been at 85* C with ear bleeding fan speed. Also, the vram ran up to 100* C when stock. Now it never passes 80*. Definitely worth the effort.

Jmtyra · Sep 21, 2015

Nihilus said:
@ Jmytra - no offense, but I think you are grasping at straws. Many of these cards are 4 years old and have went through the gauntlet of the bit coin mining craze.

None taken, perhaps it is just hardware that has had a rough life. Earlier Don mentioned an RMA'd PSU and another system that wouldn't boot so it made me curious.

Either way, definitely a lesson learned for when I start (re)building my folding farm.

Fold on! :salute:

Nihilus · Sep 22, 2015

Anandtech does a good job breaking down how well a card folds for your future use. I think the graph that
represents performance comparisons the best is the "implicit single precision."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8568/the-geforce-gtx-970-review-feat-evga/14

As you can see, the 970 is a great performer. It seems to be stuck at $330 right now. That card seems to vary alot
between wu, anywhere from 250k to 450k, which is awesome.

This one is for the R9 285 (aka R9 380) card:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8460/amd-radeon-r9-285-review/17

The 256-bit memory puts it on par with the 280 for gamers, but it falls smack between the 280 and 280x for folding.
Because of that, the 380x (released October) should be a bit better than the 280x/7970. Expect $230-$250, which is not much more than some of the used Tahitis. I would guess consistent 200k ppd.

Here is a pretty cool database of all different cards:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vcVoSVtamcoGj5sFfvKF_XlvuviWWveJIg_iZ8U2bf0/pub?output=html

don256us · Sep 23, 2015

In terms of AC power, I have this whole mess running on its own circuit. I did have these plugged in to a single power strip that did short out recently. All of these cards came from different people who all claim that they only mined for coins for four months. (I knew that was not accurate in the same way a cop knows you had more than two beers.)

The unit with the bad power supply seems to be having trouble again but the cards on that machine seem to be fine. I think that its the old 1366 MB having trouble. However, I took one of those cards out and moved it to another machine for testing. After a few days in the other machine, on a different electric circuit, it burned out.

At any rate, I will take a much different path to "glory" in the future. Used gear has kept me from 1 mill ppd for more than a year now.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you for the links.

Nihilus said:
Anandtech does a good job breaking down how well a card folds for your future use. I think the graph that
represents performance comparisons the best is the "implicit single precision."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8568/the-geforce-gtx-970-review-feat-evga/14

As you can see, the 970 is a great performer. It seems to be stuck at $330 right now. That card seems to vary alot
between wu, anywhere from 250k to 450k, which is awesome.

This one is for the R9 285 (aka R9 380) card:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8460/amd-radeon-r9-285-review/17

The 256-bit memory puts it on par with the 280 for gamers, but it falls smack between the 280 and 280x for folding.
Because of that, the 380x (released October) should be a bit better than the 280x/7970. Expect $230-$250, which is not much more than some of the used Tahitis. I would guess consistent 200k ppd.

Here is a pretty cool database of all different cards:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vcVoSVtamcoGj5sFfvKF_XlvuviWWveJIg_iZ8U2bf0/pub?output=html

Nihilus · Sep 26, 2015

don256us said:
In terms of AC power, I have this whole mess running on its own circuit. I did have these plugged in to a single power strip that did short out recently.

May I ask why you have these all connected to a single circuit?! Most home circuits are only rated for 15 AMPs or 1800 Watts at 120 volts. Your farm has to be 2500 Watts at least. This can cause overcurrent and damage to your components.

"Thank you for the links."
Your Welcome

don256us · Sep 30, 2015

OK. Now we're talking. I have a 20 AMP circuit and the total wire length is about 2 feet to include the bit that is in the panel. I don't know much about electric so anything you can add would be appreciated. The rack mount power strip that I installed is good up to 1800 watts and it overloaded on my farm. Some of the machines are plugged directly into the outlet.

I will plan to run a second circuit this weekend maybe. I lost my server rig within the last two days so I really have got to do something.

Nihilus said:
May I ask why you have these all connected to a single circuit?! Most home circuits are only rated for 15 AMPs or 1800 Watts at 120 volts. Your farm has to be 2500 Watts at least. This can cause overcurrent and damage to your components.

"Thank you for the links."
Your Welcome

Nihilus · Sep 30, 2015

Usually running electrical circuits is something done by the professionals. I am not one of them. What I do know is that if you run a 20 amp circuit, that the outlet, wire to the breaker, and breaker ALL needed to be rated for the 20 amp load.
DO NOT, I say again, DO NOT let the wire be the weak point in the circuit.

Keep in mind, multiple outlets can be going to the same circuit. Most rooms as well as most major appliances have their own circuit but you need to check your breaker box. In other words, just because you plug into 3 different outlets does not mean you have more than 20 AMPs (15 amps in most circuits) available for use total.

Sorry if any of that was obvious. In any case, BE SAFE!

edit: Again I am not a professional, but I said the wire needs to be rated for 20 amps. This is DEPENDENT upon length of wire used. i.e. if you are running a longer distance you will need a thicker wire (lower guage) to be 20 amp compliant.

don256us · Oct 1, 2015

No worries. I know for a fact that the wire, breaker and outlet are all 20 amp. There is only the two "devices" (outlets) in one double gang box not six inches from the distribution panel. There are no other devices on this circuit.

What I am more interested in is the calculations that you did to know that I was overloading the circuit.

Nihilus said:
Usually running electrical circuits is something done by the professionals. I am not one of them. What I do know is that if you run a 20 amp circuit, that the outlet, wire to the breaker, and breaker ALL needed to be rated for the 20 amp load.
DO NOT, I say again, DO NOT let the wire be the weak point in the circuit.

Keep in mind, multiple outlets can be going to the same circuit. Most rooms as well as most major appliances have their own circuit but you need to check your breaker box. In other words, just because you plug into 3 different outlets does not mean you have more than 20 AMPs (15 amps in most circuits) available for use total.

Sorry if any of that was obvious. In any case, BE SAFE!

edit: Again I am not a professional, but I said the wire needs to be rated for 20 amps. This is DEPENDENT upon length of wire used. i.e. if you are running a longer distance you will need a thicker wire (lower guage) to be 20 amp compliant.

Nihilus · Oct 1, 2015

At least in the U.S., houses run on 120 volt AC. That circuit can do 20 Amps MAX. You usually want to stay 80% or below. Anyways, Watts = volts x amps. So, 120 volts x 20 Amps = 2400 Watts. I would estimate that your two tri-fire 280x machines draw 850 Watts each. Your quad fire Tahiti is probably closer to 1100 watts. 850 Watts + 850 Watts + 1100 Watts = 2800 Watts!

The fact that you are having power supply issues is a good indicator of a circuit overload as well. Some components will get damaged before the breaker actually trips. When you plug into any outlet, everything is being connected in parallel. Each of you PCs draw about 7 amps. Again, Amps = Watts/volts or 850w/120v in your case. Resistance, however, is calculated using Volts/Amps = Resistance. When one PC is connected, that is 17 Ohms. If you connect 2 such devices , that equals 8.5 ohms. The formula for resistance is parelell is 1/R total = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3..... So, 3 devices would have 5.7 Ohms. This low resistance can cause damage to power supplies.

don256us · Oct 1, 2015

I knew that you'd come through for me. A new circuit it is for me. Thank you very much.

don256us · Oct 8, 2015

My Seasonic PS took a crap again. Maybe I should call it a POS. I've been running at a reduced capacity as it is. I have another PS that I intened for one of my farming rigs that is currently not running so I put that PS into production. Seasonic is really ticking my off. This is the second time I've had to RMA this unit. My CoolerMaster, Corsair, PCP&C, and all of my el-cheapo power supplies have all had a better track record than this PS. I think that that makes this PS, BS.

Assessing damage and building back up.

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