Curious "overclocking" issue?

Hello everyone! I don't know if this is the right section, but since I can't quite grasp the meaning of the issue I'm having, whether it's my rams, my cpu or my motherboard acting up, I decided i would post in the general subforum.

Basically, i just upgraded my 7 years old computer, and decided to go big for what concerns the Core. I bought a 4790k with an AsRock Z97 Anniversary mobo, since i knew there could be some tweaking to do.

Now, i bought 2x4gbs ram, corsair low profile, clocked at 1600 with xmp profile 1 with 7-8-8-24 latency.

Everything went perfectly fine. Then, I decided i wanted more. I ordered 2 more banks of ram. Installed them in my system, and the system failed to boot. FML, i thought, one of the new ram is either faulty or damaged.

The system reset itself a couple more times and it booted normally. Curiosity took the best of me, I shutdown the pc and gave a look at the bios. The rams were clocked at 1333mhz and the bios could recognize perfectly all the 4 banks of ram, giving me the exact specifications.

Now, what went wrong? The XMP profile was deactivated. And if i try to activate it, the system just fails to boot.

Up to this point, i thought "well, i made a mistake, the banks are different and they cannot boot properly when overclocked."

But being the curious human being I am, and having maybe too much spare time, i decided it was time to see into this.

I divided the 4 banks, the 2 i bought previously and the last 2 i bought, which we're gonna call 2 news and 2 olds (mind you, they are THE EXACT SAME BANK, i ordered them with their code and they came in the same box)

I tested the 2 news, and they booted normally with xmp profile 1
I tested the 2 olds, and they booted normally with xmp profile 1
i tested 1 new and 1 old and they booted normally with xmp profile 1
I tested the other new and the other old, and guess what? They booted normally with xmp profile 1.

Then i thought about the motherboard slots, my motherboard has 2 blue ram slots and 2 black ram slots.
Given that i had TOO much free time, i said "well, i might as well try the black slots"

Made the same tries i listed above, but with the black slots. Everything works COMPLETELY FINE. The banks booted normally and cpu-z could recognize they were clocked at 800mhz (dual channel for 1600mhz) and even AIDA64 gave me the right clockings with XMP profile 1.

To summarize, everything works and boots completely fine, but ONLY AS LONG AS I USE only 2 banks of ram, WITH NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN OLD AND NEW BATCH WHATSOEVER. For some reason, i cannot use XMP profile when i use all 4 of them together. I also thought "well, maybe the PSU is faulty".

Disconnected the video card (R9 270x) and activated the onboard gpu. System fails to boot anyway with 4 banks and xmp profile activated.

Since I'm fairly new to this z97 chipset and these new systems, is there something I am doing wrong? I cannot quite comprehend the problem since I think I'm doing everything alright. I also tried contacting corsair or asrock, to no avail.

My system specs are:
Windows 7 ultimate 64bit
Mobo: Asrock z97 anniversary
rams: Corsair Low Profile cl7 1600mhz 4gb x4
cpu: intel i7 4790k (Water Cooled)
gpu: XFX r9 270x
PSU: i don't remember the whole name as i don't have the package with me anymore, but it's an 80+ certified 690w if i recall correctly.

Prior to this, i also checked all the rails on the PSU and they gave the right readings for all the Volts (12v, 5v ecc), confirmed by the Bios aswell.

Hope somebody can come up with a solution, I would really appreciate it.

( since english is not my mother language, I apologize for any misunderstanding or misspelling )

My first question would be, are you positive that all 4 ram are identical (old and new)? What makes me curious about this is the new ram booted at 1333. Is that the XMP for this set?

Blaylock said:

My first question would be, are you positive that all 4 ram are identical (old and new)? What makes me curious about this is the new ram booted at 1333. Is that the XMP for this set?

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Yup, extremely positive, all 4 rams are identical. They boot at 1333 because it's the SPD speed reported on the xorsair page, some sort of "failsafe" boot when everything else fails. The XMP Profile is the 1600mhz one, with 7-8-8-24 latencies.

CML4GX3M1X1600C7 this is their code, and they all match obviously.

The Corsair Tech page here reports as follows:


Memory Size
4GB Kit (1 x 4GB)
SPD Latency
9-9-9-24
SPD Speed
1333MHz
SPD Voltage
1.5V
Speed Rating
PC3-12800 (1600MHz)
Tested Latency
7-8-8-24
Tested Speed
1600Mhz
Tested Voltage
1.5V

When you move from 2 to 4 sticks of RAM it is usually necessary to manually change the CR timing from 1T to 2T. Bios will often not make this adjustment automatically.

According to AIDA64 and CPU-Z, luckily my bios does this. Don't know about XMP Profile though, do you think the bios fails to do so when activating the profile? How do i make sure since i cannot even boot into windows?

Have you tried all 4 at 9-9-9-24-2T 1333?

- - - Updated - - -

I would assume they would share the same profile and so long as you're applying the profile to both banks it would work.


EDIT: Also just for clarity sake can you verify you're in 64bit.

I'm 100% sure i'm in 64 bit, of course.

Thaiphoon burner gave me these readings:
http://oi60.tinypic.com/30bnrk9.jpg

As you can see, there's not a single difference among the 4 banks of ram.

Have you tried all 4 at 9-9-9-24-2T 1333?

Click to expand...

Yes, they work naturally. I also tried all 4 of them at 7-8-8-24-2T (which i am using now) and they work flawlessly. They can accept alterated timings, but not clock speed.

One place to check for an answer to the 64-bit question is Control Panel>System.

trents said:

One place to check for an answer to the 64-bit question is Control Panel>System.

Click to expand...

I am currently using a 64bit system, since I am using 64bit only games such as Advanced Warfare and the system itself (when booted into windows) reads 16gb memory. With a reasonable doubt, let's say i am 99.999% sure i have a 64bit system

OK so if I'm understanding your English correctly you have all 4 banks working properly at 7-8-8-8-24 2T but can not OC them. Is that right?

Can you please post a screen shot of CPU-Z(free) with the main, Memory and SPD tabs open? This will help us immensely with diagnosing your OC.

One thing to check, after the part number on Corsair you'll see a Version # like this Vx.xx do these match between the two kits.

Nobody's said anything about the IMC on the CPU? I don't know the specific setting in your BIOS, but you probably need to bump the voltage for the IMC. Those are extremely tight timings for a 1600MHz kit, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if the memory controller just can't make these cycles at stock with 4 DIMMs installed.

Dlaw said:

Nobody's said anything about the IMC on the CPU? I don't know the specific setting in your BIOS, but you probably need to bump the voltage for the IMC. Those are extremely tight timings for a 1600MHz kit, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if the memory controller just can't make these cycles at stock with 4 DIMMs installed.

Click to expand...

Already tried. I tried to take the volt to 1.5 (like the instruction said) and also tried going a bit further, trying 1.55 and 1.6, but nothing changed, still can't boot.

Johan45 said:

One thing to check, after the part number on Corsair you'll see a Version # like this Vx.xx do these match between the two kits.

Click to expand...

not sure where to check this, could you give me an example?

Blaylock said:

OK so if I'm understanding your English correctly you have all 4 banks working properly at 7-8-8-8-24 2T but can not OC them. Is that right?

Can you please post a screen shot of CPU-Z(free) with the main, Memory and SPD tabs open? This will help us immensely with diagnosing your OC.

Click to expand...

http://oi59.tinypic.com/308e89g.jpg

there you go

This is definitely a very curious case Goldberg. From what I can see you have done/are doing everything correctly. Two things stand out to me as odd though. #1 your ram XMP-1 has tighter timings at 800 then at 666. This is unusual. If this were my rig I would attempt to manually set the ram to 800 9-9-9-24-33-2T @1.50v with all 4 banks. If it boots than that tells me that the ram has a funky XMP profile installed and you can either live with manually setting your timings or contact Corsair and see what they have to say. If it fails to boot then it is likely the motherboard. #2 I was surprised to find out that this is a fairly "inexpensive" board. The power section on the board looks very weak and likely can't handle all 4 banks at that speed. ASRocks claims it does so that would be an issue to take up with them. I've dealt with their customer service several time this year and thay have been very helpful. I wish I had other options for you but that's all I have at this time.

Blaylock said:

This is definitely a very curious case Goldberg. From what I can see you have done/are doing everything correctly. Two things stand out to me as odd though. #1 your ram XMP-1 has tighter timings at 800 then at 666. This is unusual. If this were my rig I would attempt to manually set the ram to 800 9-9-9-24-33-2T @1.50v with all 4 banks. If it boots than that tells me that the ram has a funky XMP profile installed and you can either live with manually setting your timings or contact Corsair and see what they have to say. If it fails to boot then it is likely the motherboard. #2 I was surprised to find out that this is a fairly "inexpensive" board. The power section on the board looks very weak and likely can't handle all 4 banks at that speed. ASRocks claims it does so that would be an issue to take up with them. I've dealt with their customer service several time this year and thay have been very helpful. I wish I had other options for you but that's all I have at this time.

Click to expand...

Mmmm that's something i don't remember doing. Trying them @ 800mhz without changing the timings could be a solution. I already contacted the AsRock support and have been talking with them for a while now, they are asking me a couple of screenshots and informations (which i gave them) but so far the things are still far from over. I don't expect them to send me a replacement or a better mobo, if the mobo can't handle the voltages then there's very little they can do. But you gave me a nice idea.

If it can help, i am actually trying the opposite. Clock untouched and altered timings with voltage on auto, it works fine, but i never tried the other way around. I'll reboot right away and try this.


Edit: Um... i actually have NO idea what's going on. Overclocked the rams with the standard timings 9-9-9-24 and they work at 1600 now.
erm... What?

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2wf4c54.jpg here's the memory tab from cpu-z

Edit2: tried manually input the 7-8-8-24 timings, fails to boot. But as i can see it's either 1333 with 7-8-8-24 timings or 1600 with 9-9-9-24 timings

Edit3: Tried to push my luck, and OCed the rams at 1866, without changing the voltage. I'm currently on 1866 with 9-9-9-24 timings, but i don't know how stable the system is. Tried launching a couple of games and it gave me no problems whatsoever

Said it before many times, and I'll say it again. If the ram doesn't run at the stated speed, timings, and voltage, it's no good. RMA all 4 sticks to Corsair.
You should not have to go through all that.

Mr.Scott said:

Said it before many times, and I'll say it again. If the ram doesn't run at the stated speed, timings, and voltage, it's no good. RMA all 4 sticks to Corsair.
You should not have to go through all that.

Click to expand...

That's a bit more complicated. My rams work completely fine. They are not responsible if the system cannot boot up with an xmp profile activated. We'd be facing a long war with them saying "the ram works" and me saying "yes but they don't when i have all 4 of them installed".

How would that turn out?

Mr.Scott said:

Said it before many times, and I'll say it again. If the ram doesn't run at the stated speed, timings, and voltage, it's no good. RMA all 4 sticks to Corsair.
You should not have to go through all that.

Click to expand...

The only thing is, they are both 2x4 kits, and they both work as 2x4 kits. The only time they don't work is when all 4 are used together. I don't think Corsair is going to RMA them, as they do work as intended.

Do you know anyone who runs 4 DIMMs in their system? My bet is no set of 4 DIMMs is going to work on that setup, either due to the motherboard or the CPU's IMC (still leaning toward that). If that is indeed the case, there's really not much you can do about it.

Another option, is to sell the RAM you have, and replace it with a 2x8 kit.

Dlaw said:

The only thing is, they are both 2x4 kits, and they both work as 2x4 kits. The only time they don't work is when all 4 are used together. I don't think Corsair is going to RMA them, as they do work as intended.

Do you know anyone who runs 4 DIMMs in their system? My bet is no set of 4 DIMMs is going to work on that setup, either due to the motherboard or the CPU's IMC (still leaning toward that). If that is indeed the case, there's really not much you can do about it.

Another option, is to sell the RAM you have, and replace it with a 2x8 kit.

Click to expand...

for what i learnt about the RAMs, the more the capacity, the higher the timings. Meaning that i would end up with something similar to a cl9 1600mhz (which i can pull off apparently with no problem with the current configuration, if you followed my posts) unless you spend good money on it (or, at least, that's what i saw here in Italy).

Actually, it's been 2 days of running my 4x4gb rams at 1866mhz cl9 and they seem to work fine.

g0ldb3rg said:

for what i learnt about the RAMs, the more the capacity, the higher the timings.

Click to expand...

That is completely false.