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Conumdrum said:

Wondering. Where did you get the coil from? The ones I have used were pure silver, all the way through. Yours is silver plated copper.

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That's why my first thought was that the copper was transferred to the silver killcoil, not that the silver was plating. I still believe that for this to have taken place in two days that something was wrong. Citric acid by itself shouldn't have done that much metal damage.

Silver Surfer said:

There would still be some possible below ambient in the worst case dew point situations, in my situation I normally run 15c below ambient which is a 10c coolant temperature so in my case ambient is really irrelevant.

It allows a higher CPU overclock than ambient cooling does, and isn't that what we do here anyway, Overclock.

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Ambient does matter. Because you're using it too cool a TEC. The TECs thermal Qmax needs to be as low as you can get it.

10c is pretty good. But you don't need a TEC to do it. Got a sweet little spot where there's a tap and drain. 50c is no problem. Actually ran a gaming rig daily without insulation on it. 5.2ghz was the best case scenario for any FX chip. The chip is too hot to accomplish any type of direct TEC cooling. And if your chilling a loop at load to 50F water delta that's not bad at all.

If you have some ideas you want to share PM me as I am presently working on shrinking my chilled water cooling down to a much smaller size that can hopefully accomplish the same end results.

If you have some ideas of things I've already tried, I'll share what happened, as the thread only covers the successful end results, not the road it took to get there.

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Ideas? Got loads of them. Have learned many lessons.

The best way is dual loops. The most major problem is freezing coolant. So in some experiments, I have run Acetone on the CPU loop and regular coolant in the TEC loop. It's almost a must.

Check this out.

To chill this loop, I used 3 water blocks on the TEC because I stacked them. Run the TEC loop over the top two TECs, the bottom 3rd TEC cools the CPU loop. The output on the chilling TEC was some -10 give or take depending on ambient temps around the TEC hot loop.

But you'd be surprised how cold you can get. If you run 4 triple stacked TECs like about, your looking at below freezing CPU water Delta if you use the right stuff.

Look into 60mm TECs and perhaps making your own water blocks. I've done that on a few occasions. Poured my own aluminum and drilled holes and all that fun stuff.

Maybe I might PM you. what kind of idea do you need?

Conumdrum said:

Wondering. Where did you get the coil from? The ones I have used were pure silver, all the way through. Yours is silver plated copper.

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Probably FrozenCPU that was a long time ago.

FYI, I still have the coil, I cut through it and it is silver all the way through, it is not silver plated copper.

Silver Surfer said:

Probably FrozenCPU that was a long time ago.

FYI, I still have the coil, I cut through it and it is silver all the way through, it is not silver plated copper.

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Then the copper transferred, either from under the chrome or the radiator tubes. For that to happen in two days there was a problem and it wasn't citric acid. Current going to ground through the cooling system?

Alaric said:

Then the copper transferred, either from under the chrome or the radiator tubes. For that to happen in two days there was a problem and it wasn't citric acid. Current going to ground through the cooling system?

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The Citric Acid medium is an excellent environment for plating, but the pump current going to ground through the cooling system IDK? (That does at least sound logical)

However there are other plating methods that do not require electricity being passed through the medium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroless_nickel_plating

A friend of mine that duplicated my chilled water cooling system had exactly the same setup as I did at the time, he was also cooling his graphics card a GTX Titan Hydro Copper with the same type Rad a Watercool MO-RA3, same reservoir a Bitspower cylinder style 400, he added the citric acid as well, because we both discovered the Citric Acid recommendations at the Watercool website, and the same thing happened to his setup.

The whys of it happening, I don't know exactly, but after removing the silver kill coil, flushing the system and not adding the citric acid, there has been zero problems since then.

Silver Surfer said:

Probably FrozenCPU that was a long time ago.

FYI, I still have the coil, I cut through it and it is silver all the way through, it is not silver plated copper.

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Thanks! I used Petra's silver coils and a few drops of PHN Nuke with nickle blocks from Koolance/EK and let the loop run over two years. Coils were still silver.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...-Hmm-I-guess-I-need-to-tell-you-a-dark-secret

Dunno.

Woah, a lot of comments happened in here! I'll try to work my way through it

ShrimpBrime said:

We all know the end result in any cooling system is the ambient temp.

I'm inquiring today about a chiller reservoir. This type has been created before with little success. So perhaps a reservoir that can be modified to accommodate a TEC?

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Well, the watercooling market is a niche. The people that go subambient are a niche within this niche. I'm afraid that it wouldn't be economically profitable to develop a product which aims for such a small target group. So no, we will not develop a reservoir that will have those abilites preinstalled. But we are always open for customized ideas. Please feel free to contact [email protected] if you have a laid out plan and we'll see if we can help you make it a reality.

Silver Surfer said:

I now run 100% steam distilled water and biocide, (Copper Sulfate), I'll never run a kill coil again!

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Silver Surfer said:

Until I saw that suggestion from Watercool to use Citric Acid in distilled water I had never heard of that before, my mistake was assuming a company like Watercool would know what's best for their radiator.

Which may be great for the Watercool MO-RA3 alone but not necessarily great for the other metals in the loop, especially when a silver kill coil was dropped in the reservoir!

So since this is the Watercool Reps thread, how about it Mr. Rep, any other problems related to the adding of the citric acid suggestion?

I'll never add citric acid again and I do not suggest anyone else do it either.

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You are absolutely right to call us out for the citric acid. As the silver kill coils, this is an outdated method. It actually stems from the same time period! We took down that advice earlier this year, and are currently researching if we should give advice to any specific product.
Please be aware that your new method of adding copper sulfate also comes with some risks. Copper sulfate is also a corrossion accelerator and will, in the long term, attack every nickel component in your loop. We recieved the following picture from a customer who used a high mixing ratio of copper sulfate:
View attachment 182682

WATERCOOL-Jakob said:

You are absolutely right to call us out for the citric acid. As the silver kill coils, this is an outdated method. It actually stems from the same time period! We took down that advice earlier this year, and are currently researching if we should give advice to any specific product.
Please be aware that your new method of adding copper sulfate also comes with some risks. Copper sulfate is also a corrosion accelerator and will, in the long term, attack every nickel component in your loop. We received the following picture from a customer who used a high mixing ratio of copper sulfate:

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I'm just running a copper loop now and keeping an eye on everything, Thank You for your feedback! SS

WATERCOOL-Jakob said:

...We recieved the following picture from a customer who used a high mixing ratio of copper sulfate:
View attachment 182682

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How in the world do you let something that expensive fall that far out of repair?!?!

Holy cow! Yeah, I'm gonna be grabbing some premixed stuff from AQ. I notice my Core temps spiking a bit. My guess its the oxidization that is happening with two silver kill coils in the res. Is there a way to make the copper block look good as new once I eventually open it or am I better off trying to replace it but looking around I barely see this waterblock being sold in the market other then from FCPU OR will it clean itself out with the new pre-mixed fluid?

GTXJackBauer said:

Is there a way to make the copper block look good as new once I eventually open it

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Ketchup or Tomato Paste works great for really bad cases, lighter situations you can use Vinegar and Table salt.

Try to find a super fine bristle brass brush for the fins or pins inside the block, you can usually pick those up cheap from a local Harbor Freight or hardware store.

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Dlaw said:

How in the world do you let something that expensive fall that far out of repair?!?!

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Yeah I agree, that almost looks like pure battery acid damage.

If that was done by copper sulfate he must have used the entire bottle of it, but why is the damage outside not inside?

Silver Surfer said:

Ketchup or Tomato Paste works great for really bad cases, lighter situations you can use Vinegar and Table salt.

Try to find a super fine bristle brass brush for the fins or pins inside the block, you can usually pick those up cheap from a local Harbor Freight or hardware store.

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Yeah I figured ketchup was still the thing to do and vinegar but figured I'd ask just in case anything changed. Funny thing is, I used vinegar once on another CPU block and it only seemed to "lighten" up a bit from its dark side but couldn't get it to look new again. It was very frustrating. While I'm at it, just ordered some brushes.

Silver Surfer said:

Yeah I agree, that almost looks like pure battery acid damage.

If that was done by copper sulfate he must have used the entire bottle of it, but why is the damage outside not inside?

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I think it got so bad from the inside as you can see a crack to it. It must've spread outward to the outside that you're seeing there. Me thinks internally, it will look catastrophic if that is split open.

GTXJackBauer said:

Yeah I figured ketchup was still the thing to do and vinegar but figured I'd ask just in case anything changed. Funny thing is, I used vinegar once on another CPU block and it only seemed to "lighten" up a bit from its dark side but couldn't get it to look new again. It was very frustrating. While I'm at it, just ordered some brushes.



I think it got so bad from the inside as you can see a crack to it. It must've spread outward to the outside that you're seeing there. Me thinks internally, it will look catastrophic if that is split open.

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Make sure you leave the ketchup in it for a while it's not instantaneous, I just cleaned my EK Supremacy EVO copper acetal block and it took a couple of times with the ketchup also use a magnifying glass to make sure you are not leaving anything behind in the fins that would block or impede the flow, a little canned compressed air helps tremendously with that.

If the outside looks that bad I agree, the inside must be really bad!

Jack I would like to say it is much more of a pleasure talking with you than arguing with you. SS

Hey guys,
as I already said, we waived our older recommendation concerning additives earlier this year. So, we already were in the process of rethinking our position concerning coolants, distilled water and additives. But the way this thread went in the last week, we decided that in the future, WATERCOOL will offer it's own brand of coolant! So, thank you all for your input and for your constructive criticism, it was heard and gave us the final push to start developing a completeley new branch of products. Obviously, I have not even a rough ETA, because we first need to define which abilities our coolant shall have, find chemists who can do the actual mixing for us, test and review the different prototypes and so on and so on, but I'll keep you updated!

More products is always better. Congrats on the decision Jakob.

FWIW, I find it quite refreshing to see a vendor actually listening to perspective customers wants and wishes, and actually making some of them happen. Positive interaction with the community adds to business and reputation. You're doing a good thing here Jakob.

Mr.Scott said:

FWIW, I find it quite refreshing to see a vendor actually listening to perspective customers wants and wishes, and actually making some of them happen. Positive interaction with the community adds to business and reputation. You're doing a good thing here Jakob.

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Well said. I couldn't agree more.

I also concur. all around.

WATERCOOL-Jakob said:

Hey guys,
as I already said, we waived our older recommendation concerning additives earlier this year. So, we already were in the process of rethinking our position concerning coolants, distilled water and additives. But the way this thread went in the last week, we decided that in the future, WATERCOOL will offer it's own brand of coolant! So, thank you all for your input and for your constructive criticism, it was heard and gave us the final push to start developing a completeley new branch of products. Obviously, I have not even a rough ETA, because we first need to define which abilities our coolant shall have, find chemists who can do the actual mixing for us, test and review the different prototypes and so on and so on, but I'll keep you updated!

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Yeah thats a good idea creating your own kind of coolant specifically designed for your blocks whether its copper or nickel based. Just as the koolance pre mix i used on their blocks for 3.5 years without any problem as if they are all new. Maybe they designed it tested it with their nickel plated blocks ie suitable for the type of metal they used or nickel plating. If you test it with your type of alloy or nickel plating that would be a real good thing. It would take away the doubt of which coolant to use (some will say ahh its just basic distilled with glycol who knows but if tested it allows for different amount of glycol or added ingredients to make the block good as long as possible. The sooner your coolant is available the better!! Hopefully one that can be used for longer then 9 or 12 months ie Innovatek protect or koolance pre mix all can be used for 2 years atleast.

Hey you guys, thanks a lot for your feedback, That really is very encouraging!

We recieved a LOT of requests to support certain custom PCBs. We never did this before, but decided to give it a try with the GTX 1080/1070 generation. Obviously, we cannot support any and every custom PCB, so to find our first candidate, We would like to know your preferences. Please take part in this quick survey so we can cater for your actual needs. Your input is very much appreciated!