Overclocking Q9400 Beyond 3.6GHz On Air

Hello everyone, I'm new here!

A few weeks ago I started reviving my old gaming PC (which was a beast... 8 years ago. Q6600, 8800 GTS 512, abit IP35-Pro, 4 GB Ram). It turns out that my GPU went dead, so I bought a new one, and upgraded my pc with some spare parts I could gather.

Anyway, I now have a Q9400, cooled by Zalman CNPS5x. I've managed to get it to 3.6GHz relatively easy, and the temps aren't high - Prime95+Coretemp report a max of 66-60-62-60 after an hour of tests.
FSB Of 450, 8x Multi (too bad it can't go higher), 1:1 Ratio (so my Ram runs at 900MHz). Bios Voltage of 1.33V, which isn't too high because of Vdrop. I haven't touched the ram timings at all, and it's still set on "SPD".

For some reason, I can't get it any higher than 3.6GHz. The motherboard boots, but the windows fails to start. I'm no expert at this, but I think the reason is my RAM: I have 4x 2GB Kingston DDR2 sticks - 3x are 800MHz, 1x is 667MHz. So I thought to myself, "Hey, maybe if I swap the 667 one with a 800 one, I'd do great!". Well, turns out it's actually worse, with 4x 800MHz sticks, at 450 FSB, if the ratio is 1:1 there's no post at all, if the ration is 1:1.2 the motherboard posts but windows fails to load.

So, yeah, any tips on what to do? I'm thinking it has to do with the ram timings, but what should I do with them?

EDIT: Update 1

I've tried 2x2 1066MHz RAM, and the results were the same - it appears I'm not limited by the RAM.
I've tried upgrading my power supply, so it's not that as well.


Thanks, and I hope my hardware isn't too old for this forum

You've got a few different things going on here...

1. You said you were running multiple different speeds of sticks. So, I'm guessing that they are different brands and/or different models. Then you said you swapped out your 667MHz stick for an 800MHz one. Was the 800MHz stick the same brand and model as the other three? Do any of your sticks match at all? This is a risky choice, running sticks of different models and/or brands together, and usually leads to instability in some form, or can lead to instability. Sometimes it doesn't, but most of the time it does.

2. You may be running into a "FSB hole", which is basically a FSB frequency range where the system won't boot up or make it into the OS. In your case it seems to get unstable around or just past 450MHz. That's not unusual, several boards got unstable around 450MHz back in the LGA775 days. So did my IP35 Pro. Think it didn't work between 450-470 MHz, worked great at 475 MHz and above, or below 450MHz though. How high have you tried to increase the FSB frequency to, or where did you stop testing?

3. You may in fact need better memory, and/or memory that can handle higher speeds, as in DDR2-1066MHz or better. That's provided that your 800MHz sticks are of a good brand and model, and actually match.

4. Running four sticks of memory of any capacity is inviting difficulties, as it adds additional strain on the memory controller. So, you normally end up having to supply more voltage to the CPU and Northbridge than you would if you were only using two sticks, to make up for the added strain on the system.

Tech Tweaker said:

You've got a few different things going on here...

1. You said you were running multiple different speeds of sticks. So, I'm guessing that they are different brands and/or different models. Then you said you swapped out your 667MHz stick for an 800MHz one. Was the 800MHz stick the same brand and model as the other three? Do any of your sticks match at all? This is a risky choice, running sticks of different models and/or brands together, and usually leads to instability in some form, or can lead to instability. Sometimes it doesn't, but most of the time it does.

2. You may be running into a "FSB hole", which is basically a FSB frequency range where the system won't boot up or make it into the OS. In your case it seems to get unstable around or just past 450MHz. That's not unusual, several boards got unstable around 450MHz back in the LGA775 days. So did my IP35 Pro. Think it didn't work between 450-470 MHz, worked great at 475 MHz and above, or below 450MHz though. How high have you tried to increase the FSB frequency to, or where did you stop testing?

3. You may in fact need better memory, and/or memory that can handle higher speeds, as in DDR2-1066MHz or better. That's provided that your 800MHz sticks are of a good brand and model, and actually match.

4. Running four sticks of memory of any capacity is inviting difficulties, as it adds additional strain on the memory controller. So, you normally end up having to supply more voltage to the CPU and Northbridge than you would if you were only using two sticks, to make up for the added strain on the system.

Click to expand...

Hello, thanks for the quick reply!

1. Allow me to clarify things: I have 5 Kingston DDR2 2GB Sticks. 3 of them are 800 MHz and appear identical. 1 of them is 667 MHz and has an identical (physical) appearance to the other 3 sticks. The 5th stick, which I've used to swap the 667 stick, is also Kingston DDR2, 800 MHz, though it has a different physical appearance when I compare it to the other sticks. When I check the timings at CPU-Z however, it has the same configurations as the other sticks.
How can I test whether or not my sticks match? Is the "Blend" option at Prime95 Good enough, or should I go with Memtest? Or maybe there's another method for testing the RAM stick compatibility with each other?
2. I haven't gone too high with the FSB. 450 is perfectly stable as long as I'm using the 3x800+1x667 sticks. Are you saying I should attempt to, say, change the FSB to 480 in one step?
3. I see. Well, I don't think I can get 1066MHz memory for cheap, not 4 sticks at least, so I won't use that route.
4. I tried playing around with the MCH voltage, increased it from 1.25 to 1.33, though it doesn't seem to do much. I've also tried upping the RAM voltage from 1.8 to 1.85, but again, no effect.
5. Do you think I should just retry everything with 2 sticks to see if I'm somehow limited by it?

yoadknux said:

Hello, thanks for the quick reply!

1. Allow me to clarify things: I have 5 Kingston DDR2 2GB Sticks. 3 of them are 800 MHz and appear identical. 1 of them is 667 MHz and has an identical (physical) appearance to the other 3 sticks. The 5th stick, which I've used to swap the 667 stick, is also Kingston DDR2, 800 MHz, though it has a different physical appearance when I compare it to the other sticks. When I check the timings at CPU-Z however, it has the same configurations as the other sticks.
How can I test whether or not my sticks match? Is the "Blend" option at Prime95 Good enough, or should I go with Memtest? Or maybe there's another method for testing the RAM stick compatibility with each other?
2. I haven't gone too high with the FSB. 450 is perfectly stable as long as I'm using the 3x800+1x667 sticks. Are you saying I should attempt to, say, change the FSB to 480 in one step?
3. I see. Well, I don't think I can get 1066MHz memory for cheap, not 4 sticks at least, so I won't use that route.
4. I tried playing around with the MCH voltage, increased it from 1.25 to 1.33, though it doesn't seem to do much. I've also tried upping the RAM voltage from 1.8 to 1.85, but again, no effect.
5. Do you think I should just retry everything with 2 sticks to see if I'm somehow limited by it?

Click to expand...

1. I was actually referring to the model numbers that should be printed on the sides of the sticks. I was curious whether those matched or not.
2. I wasn't really suggesting increasing from 450 to 480 in one big jump. I was more or less curious as to what you had tried so far, or if you had tried to go beyond 450MHz FSB. It's just easier for us to help you if we know what steps for troubleshooting or testing you've taken already.
3. Yes, 4x 2GB 1066MHz sticks might not be the cheapest thing, depending upon where you are in the world, how easy or difficult they are to get near you, and what your budget is like. I see good 2x2GB 1066MHz kits going for $30-50 USD in used condition on ebay usually.
4. Okay. Usually isn't necessary to go much past 1.3V on the MCH voltage. Think I ran my MCH voltage at 1.3V with 4x2GB DDR2 sticks at 1000MHz. Well, going from 1.8-1.85V likely wouldn't show much difference, so I'm not surprised there was no change there. Going to 1.9V might show a change, but I wouldn't recommend going beyond 1.9V, since we don't know much about what type of memory chips your RAM has (and what it can hold up to, reasonably). Usually, most DDR2 can handle 1.9V though, even if 1.8V is the stock voltage.
5. Yes, it couldn't hurt to try actually. And would let us and you know whether your issues are related to your amount of RAM sticks, or some other RAM-related issue.

Tech Tweaker said:

1. I was actually referring to the model numbers that should be printed on the sides of the sticks. I was curious whether those matched or not.
2. I wasn't really suggesting increasing from 450 to 480 in one big jump. I was more or less curious as to what you had tried so far, or if you had tried to go beyond 450MHz FSB. It's just easier for us to help you if we know what steps for troubleshooting or testing you've taken already.
3. Yes, 4x 2GB 1066MHz sticks might not be the cheapest thing, depending upon where you are in the world, how easy or difficult they are to get near you, and what your budget is like. I see good 2x2GB 1066MHz kits going for $30-50 USD in used condition on ebay usually.
4. Okay. Usually isn't necessary to go much past 1.3V on the MCH voltage. Think I ran my MCH voltage at 1.3V with 4x2GB DDR2 sticks at 1000MHz. Well, going from 1.8-1.85V likely wouldn't show much difference, so I'm not surprised there was no change there. Going to 1.9V might show a change, but I wouldn't recommend going beyond 1.9V, since we don't know much about what type of memory chips your RAM has (and what it can hold up to, reasonably). Usually, most DDR2 can handle 1.9V though, even if 1.8V is the stock voltage.
5. Yes, it couldn't hurt to try actually. And would let us and you know whether your issues are related to your amount of RAM sticks, or some other RAM-related issue.

Click to expand...

1. Two are identical, the rest are not, at least if I judge by the sticker on it.
2. I tried it anyway - No Boot
3. Even for that price, well, I'd invest good money in bad memory. The system is outdated and is outperformed, even when overclocked. I just wanna see what I can squeeze out without spending too much $. All my RAM sticks have costed me like $40 combined...

Anyway, I did as you suggested: Leaving the identical 2x 800MHz sticks.
First, I attempted to return to the 3.6GHz (450 FSB), and I managed to do it. Didn't need to touch anything other than the CPU voltage.
Then I tried increasing the FSB from 450 -> 460. At a 1:1 Ratio it boots, but windows gets stuck when loading. Increased CPU Voltage, Ram Voltage, MCH Voltage - didn't help. Lowered multiplier - Didn't help. Attempted a 1:1.2 Ratio - I see the motherboard boots, but PC freezes on that screen.

To sum it up: I was unable to achieve better results with the 2x sticks, or maybe I missed something. I will have to assume that it's either the memory that limits me or the motherboard that limits me, and I tend to go with the memory, because the computer boots, just never makes it into windows.
What do you think is the issue? Am I simply limited by the 800MHz memory? Is there anything I can do with the RAM timings, or is it unrelated?

Ah, by the way, when I set the RAM voltage to "Auto", it actually gives the stick about 2V of ram (it's supposed to operate @ 1.8) , is that normal, or does it make the RAM burn out? When not set on Auto, but on 1.85V, I still get good stability (though to be honest, my 4h Prime95 test was with RAM @ 1.85V and MCH @ 1.33V)

And Edit #2: The BSOD error that I get for 460 FSB is BAD_POOL_HEADER (Win 10). Another BSOD that I get is kernel security check failure.

Thanks a lot for all the help, by the way!

yoadknux said:

3. Even for that price, well, I'd invest good money in bad memory. The system is outdated and is outperformed, even when overclocked. I just wanna see what I can squeeze out without spending too much $. All my RAM sticks have costed me like $40 combined...

Anyway, I did as you suggested: Leaving the identical 2x 800MHz sticks.
First, I attempted to return to the 3.6GHz (450 FSB), and I managed to do it. Didn't need to touch anything other than the CPU voltage.
Then I tried increasing the FSB from 450 -> 460. At a 1:1 Ratio it boots, but windows gets stuck when loading. Increased CPU Voltage, Ram Voltage, MCH Voltage - didn't help. Lowered multiplier - Didn't help. Attempted a 1:1.2 Ratio - I see the motherboard boots, but PC freezes on that screen.

To sum it up: I was unable to achieve better results with the 2x sticks, or maybe I missed something. I will have to assume that it's either the memory that limits me or the motherboard that limits me, and I tend to go with the memory, because the computer boots, just never makes it into windows.
What do you think is the issue? Am I simply limited by the 800MHz memory? Is there anything I can do with the RAM timings, or is it unrelated?

Ah, by the way, when I set the RAM voltage to "Auto", it actually gives the stick about 2V of ram (it's supposed to operate @ 1.8) , is that normal, or does it make the RAM burn out? When not set on Auto, but on 1.85V, I still get good stability (though to be honest, my 4h Prime95 test was with RAM @ 1.85V and MCH @ 1.33V)

And Edit #2: The BSOD error that I get for 460 FSB is BAD_POOL_HEADER (Win 10). Another BSOD that I get is kernel security check failure.

Thanks a lot for all the help, by the way!

Click to expand...

Well, I can appreciate that. I probably should have paid $120+ for my 4x2GB 1066MHz DDR2 sticks if I'd bought them at the regular selling prices at that time, but I actually only have maybe $30 invested in them. Which was because I bought half of them in a hardware combo with a motherboard and CPU, I just sold the motherboard and CPU and kept the memory, and I think they were more than free since I actually got more back from selling the motherboard and CPU than I paid for them.

It might be the motherboard, or might be the memory speed or timings being out of specifications. Hard to say without knowing more information.

Hard to say if 2v is bad or dangerous for them. Depends upon what type of memory chips were used on the memory sticks, as different brands and models of memory chips (the actual integrated circuits themselves) respond differently to voltages.

What model is your memory? What are the default timings/SPD settings for your memory sticks at 800MHz?

Also, what speed is your memory actually at when you have the CPU overclocked to 3.6GHz?

If you could post screen shots of the Memory tab and SPD tab in CPU-Z that would be helpful.

You're welcome, just trying to help out where I can. Surprised I haven't seen anyone else jump in here yet.

Tech Tweaker said:

Well, I can appreciate that. I probably should have paid $120+ for my 4x2GB 1066MHz DDR2 sticks if I'd bought them at the regular selling prices at that time, but I actually only have maybe $30 invested in them. Which was because I bought half of them in a hardware combo with a motherboard and CPU, I just sold the motherboard and CPU and kept the memory, and I think they were more than free since I actually got more back from selling the motherboard and CPU than I paid for them.

It might be the motherboard, or might be the memory speed or timings being out of specifications. Hard to say without knowing more information.

Hard to say if 2v is bad or dangerous for them. Depends upon what type of memory chips were used on the memory sticks, as different brands and models of memory chips (the actual integrated circuits themselves) respond differently to voltages.

What model is your memory? What are the default timings/SPD settings for your memory sticks at 800MHz?

Also, what speed is your memory actually at when you have the CPU overclocked to 3.6GHz?

If you could post screen shots of the Memory tab and SPD tab in CPU-Z that would be helpful.

You're welcome, just trying to help out where I can. Surprised I haven't seen anyone else jump in here yet.

Click to expand...

At 3.6GHz, I'm at a 1:1 Ratio so my RAM is at 900MHz.

All the sticks are from Kingston. If an exact model number is required, I could write down the number that is physically written on the stick itself.

Here are the screenies you asked: I've done them at 452 FSB because that's the maximum I could reach without crashing. This is the 3x800MHz 1x666MHz configuration that allows me to reach 3.6GHz:

Memory Tab:


SPD TAB:
Stick 1:

Stick 2:

Stick 3:

Stick 4 (666 MHz one):


As a reminder to the previous posts, to solve this problem I've attempted to swap the 666 stick with another 800 stick, also kingston, that has identical timings according to CPU-Z SPD Tab. However, if I increase the FSB at a 1:1 Ratio, at some point (<450) I stop getting the POST screen, so no boot. Oddly though, I can reach high FSB and still POST with a 1:1.2 Ratio, but of course the windows crashes when the memory starts running at 1000+, which it probably doesn't do well. The fact it posts with 1:1.2 and doesn't at 1:1 is pretty weird

Edit:
I've attached the SPD of the 4th 800MHz stick:

And, after manually insterting the memory timings from CPU-Z (5-5-5-15-44-2T), the 1:1 Ratio works with 450 FSB!

...But the windows still freezes on load when I try a 460 FSB. Perhaps higher CPU Voltage? I could still attempt 1.36V or higher...

May i ask what temperature you are getting with this cooler?

M@rk said:

May i ask what temperature you are getting with this cooler?

Click to expand...

Yes. My Q9400 @ 3.6GHz, Vcore @ 1.33v, after 2 hours of prime95 maximum heat test, reports maximum temperatures of 68-63-64-64. Idle is 38-32-32-34. Once I get the OC right, I'll start min-maxing the voltages, so the temperatures could possibly still drop.
I've done all sorts of checks to it, such as how the speed of the fan affects the temperature, and how noisy it gets. I don't have a shiny graph with cooling/noise ratio, but I'll just say that the difference in temperatures between 75% fan speed and 100% fan speed is at best a temperature or two, while the noise difference is very noticeable.
If you're interested in this cooler, you have to check whether the connector of the Zalman heat sink interferes with your south-bridge heat pipe or heat sink. The CPU heat sink itself isn't big, but it is attached to the mounting stage using screws which may come in contact with other motherboard components. For me, I've had to bend a few teeth of the outer parts of the motherboard heat sink. Worked great, but took some planning

yoadknux said:

Yes. My Q9400 @ 3.6GHz, Vcore @ 1.33v, after 2 hours of prime95 maximum heat test, reports maximum temperatures of 68-63-64-64. Idle is 38-32-32-34. Once I get the OC right, I'll start min-maxing the voltages, so the temperatures could possibly still drop.
I've done all sorts of checks to it, such as how the speed of the fan affects the temperature, and how noisy it gets. I don't have a shiny graph with cooling/noise ratio, but I'll just say that the difference in temperatures between 75% fan speed and 100% fan speed is at best a temperature or two, while the noise difference is very noticeable.
If you're interested in this cooler, you have to check whether the connector of the Zalman heat sink interferes with your south-bridge heat pipe or heat sink. The CPU heat sink itself isn't big, but it is attached to the mounting stage using screws which may come in contact with other motherboard components. For me, I've had to bend a few teeth of the outer parts of the motherboard heat sink. Worked great, but took some planning

Click to expand...

Ok Thanks , I was just wondering cause my 8400Q is at 60c at idle and 100 within a few seconds after i turn Prime95, And a stock cooler attached to it.
I have a thread i opened about 3 weeks ago and since then i've done nothing cause i was lazy and my parents un-motivating (If its even a word) me, So i will probably fix it soon, Maybe next friday .

@ OP- Your ram timings are too tight for the speed you're trying to run. You're at 450 @ 5-5-5-15 when technically your ram @ 400 should be 6-6-6-18. Add in your overclock and it's compounded.

Mr.Scott said:

@ OP- Your ram timings are too tight for the speed you're trying to run. You're at 450 @ 5-5-5-15 when technically your ram @ 400 should be 6-6-6-18. Add in your overclock and it's compounded.

Click to expand...

I tried changing 5-5-5-15 to 6-6-6-18, motherboard doesn't boot.

Mr.Scott said:

@ OP- Your ram timings are too tight for the speed you're trying to run. You're at 450 @ 5-5-5-15 when technically your ram @ 400 should be 6-6-6-18. Add in your overclock and it's compounded.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

yoadknux said:

I tried changing 5-5-5-15 to 6-6-6-18, motherboard doesn't boot.

Click to expand...

You may have to try them one at a time to see which one causes it to not boot. Although it likely isn't the tRAS (18) that's causing it to not boot, as that one is usually less important than the first three. Normally it's either the CAS Latency or RAS to CAS that causes issues in my experience.

For instance, try 6-5-5-15, 5-6-5-15, 5-5-6-15, 5-5-5-18.

That's odd, it shouldn't fail to boot when setting looser timings.

Unless maybe it's that 667MHz stick that doesn't like it, as it's out of spec. Frankly I'm amazed you managed to get a 667MHz stick to run at 900MHz. I've overclocked 667Mhz sticks to run at 800MHz before, but never got them to go much further than that.

More than one issue going on there. I would most definitely start from scratch on just the 2 matched ram sticks......that's providing that they're any good to start with. Memtest is your friend.

Tech Tweaker said:

Agreed.



You may have to try them one at a time to see which one causes it to not boot. Although it likely isn't the tRAS (18) that's causing it to not boot, as that one is usually less important than the first three. Normally it's either the CAS Latency or RAS to CAS that causes issues in my experience.

For instance, try 6-5-5-15, 5-6-5-15, 5-5-6-15, 5-5-5-18.

That's odd, it shouldn't fail to boot when setting looser timings.

Unless maybe it's that 667MHz stick that doesn't like it, as it's out of spec. Frankly I'm amazed you managed to get a 667MHz stick to run at 900MHz. I've overclocked 667Mhz sticks to run at 800MHz before, but never got them to go much further than that.

Click to expand...

I was able to get it to 5-6-6-18-44-2T. It seems the CAS latency is the issue. As for the 667 stick, maybe it's golden...

Mr.Scott said:

More than one issue going on there. I would most definitely start from scratch on just the 2 matched ram sticks......that's providing that they're any good to start with. Memtest is your friend.

Click to expand...

It crossed my mind and I went for it, no improvement though. Tried one stick, two sticks, three sticks. Windows 10 crashes just before it loads. However, during the less-sticks attempt, I haven't touched the RAM timings at all, so I'll re-attempt it and see how it goes.

By the way, I understand that this is a "gut feeling" question, do you guys think this is a memory issue, a processor issue or a motherboard issue?

yoadknux said:

By the way, I understand that this is a "gut feeling" question, do you guys think this is a memory issue, a processor issue or a motherboard issue?

Click to expand...

Well.....average overclock on a Q9400 on air is right around 3600, and the IP35-Pro does have a known FSB hole between 430 and 475, so........
as I said, you have more than one thing going on there.

So I've tried the stuff you guys suggested, the 2x sticks OC didn't work any better.
For the 4x sticks, The "mixed" timings (5-6-6-18-44-2T) actually went worse than the tight timings, so I went on and checked whether my system is truly stable with the 3x800Mhz 1x667 (all @ 900MHz), because my PC froze a few times recently, though it probably had to do with all the mixed stuff I was running. So I ran Prime95 Blend test for 8 hours, no errors, stopped it. Now I ran Memtest for about 11 hours and I'm not sure about the results, it runs slow - in those 11 hours it only managed to complete 5 passes (no errors though). The internal clock of memtest is also kinda funny. Is this normal?

im not sure when it was known to have that scott. i had not issues with 400mhz-450mhz on mine. granted i didnt take any pics if any at all below 450mhz, here is a few to look at.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Evilsizer/ocforums/superpi 1m runs/1m33g11p352.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Evilsizer/ocforums/superpi 1m runs/1m11218e72456.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Evilsizer/ocforums/superpi 1m runs/1me72421195.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Evilsizer/ocforums/superpi 1m runs/e72381m1317.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Evilsizer/ocforums/superpi 1m runs/gskillhz.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Evilsizer/ocforums/superpi 1m runs/p3536g11sp1m.jpg

now you may have to dig for some of my old posts or head over to www.xtrememsystems.org and look for the IP35-pro thread. a few of us noted certian types of cpus oc better on different bios's, as in using a 65nm dual core/quad core on one bios vs 45nm dual/quad core to another or two different ones dual vs quad in 45nm.

take a note in one of my pics im running 4x1gb dimms@480mhz and they are not the Gskill HZ sticks with micron D9 ic's but the HK with ELP ic's.

Well guys, I just bought a 2x2GB kit by Mushkin, which CPU-Z says can run at 533MHz @ 5-5-5-15-2T 2.1V, got it for about 33$ because I thought it was worth checking.
And, well...
460 FSB, still Win10 gets stuck on loading screen.
480 FSB, Boots, but stuck at POST screen.

This means that my problem... Has really not been the memory. The Kingston 667MHz one produced the same result as the Mushkin 1066MHz...

I have to assume that, either:
1. My Processor simply can't go higher than 3.6GHz.
2. My Motherboard isn't stable over 450 FSB.
3. I haven't been supplying enough voltage to the processor (For 3.6GHz, the BIOS CPU Voltage is set at 1.3375V. For 3.8GHz, I tried 1.3875V. Saw no reason to over-volt my CPU...
4. Related to 3, maybe my power supply (Thermaltake TR2-470) can't keep up. But is this even likely? I have no experience with what happens to a computer when the power supply doesn't give enough power.

I think this has more to do with the motherboard than the CPU, because windows won't load @ 460 FSB even if the CPU multiplier is lowered.
Now that we've eliminated the memory issue, is there anything you guys think I can do to get past 3.6GHz, other than swapping a motherboard?

Well..........that PSU is a time bomb. I've seen stranger things happen on a crappy PSU. I'd change that out and try again.