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Whats enough for my build?
- Thread starter exisss
- Start date
- Joined
- May 8, 2011
- Location
- Darlington, South Carolina
A lot has changed Earthdog in the last few years, especially in radiator design and cooling capability, we have rads today much thicker than anything tested by Martin back in 2008.
There are no updated links that I am aware of, but you already know that.
The things I share are from my own discoveries, with the setups I have in my home.
And sir I am not a liar, I do not pass on false information!
I have however experienced negativity from those that seem to think everything has to fit inside the box.
That make their claims based on Martins information and have never tried for themselves any of what I've suggested for higher overclocks.
When I first shared my ideas for chilled water cooling 4 years ago, I was blasted right and left, and if I had listened to them, I would not have a successful cooling solution today.
So just because it doesn't come from Martinsliquidlab does not mean it isn't true.
Maybe I should have asked the OP exactly what he meant by heavily overclocking.
To him maybe 200mhz is heavily overclocking, to me 1500mhz is heavily overclocking.
Silver, let's not play the roll of a martyr here. Nobody is calling you a liar. Please understand where we are coming from. We have empirically tested data by a couple of the most respected watercooling reviewers/testers out there when they were active. Then you come in and state otherwise without a lick of supporting evidence (which I did not know you wouldn't have). So again, please understand our request for data... so we can learn from it and see the empirical testing. I believe things have changed... but would just like to see some testing is all. It really is simple considering.
As far as thicker rads.... there was Thermochill prodcuts (PA series?) among others that were thick rads back then. That said, performance really hasn't improved too terribly much since that time with radiators really. Its not like they are suddenly doubling how much heat they can dissipate for the same size/FPI/fan speed. It has been incremental improvements over time. So if 'old' testing showed a max of 1-2C, and rads today are incrementally better, lets give it 20% for the same 'area/thickness' (while we both know there are other variables that would affect that...) that would mean 1.2C and 2.4C difference at most. I don't think the story changes much. What differences are you seeing from the rad inlet to its out? What flow rates and loads are in the loop? You can't take a picture/video of your inline sensors, including flow rate and show us what you are seeing in your setup? Trust me, if I had them, I would try myself... but it seems you tested this with the proper hardware so...
As far as thicker rads.... there was Thermochill prodcuts (PA series?) among others that were thick rads back then. That said, performance really hasn't improved too terribly much since that time with radiators really. Its not like they are suddenly doubling how much heat they can dissipate for the same size/FPI/fan speed. It has been incremental improvements over time. So if 'old' testing showed a max of 1-2C, and rads today are incrementally better, lets give it 20% for the same 'area/thickness' (while we both know there are other variables that would affect that...) that would mean 1.2C and 2.4C difference at most. I don't think the story changes much. What differences are you seeing from the rad inlet to its out? What flow rates and loads are in the loop? You can't take a picture/video of your inline sensors, including flow rate and show us what you are seeing in your setup? Trust me, if I had them, I would try myself... but it seems you tested this with the proper hardware so...
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- Joined
- May 8, 2011
- Location
- Darlington, South Carolina
What exactly am I stating otherwise?
That loop order really matters in performance... over the 1-2C that we have seen at Martin's with a typical setup.
That said, I am sure if you get some high FPI rad, double thick, and some 5K Delta's you can see a much more significant difference. But we are trying to talk within the context of the OP and more 'typical' setups.
That said, I am sure if you get some high FPI rad, double thick, and some 5K Delta's you can see a much more significant difference. But we are trying to talk within the context of the OP and more 'typical' setups.
- Joined
- May 8, 2011
- Location
- Darlington, South Carolina
This is what I said Earthdog.
Is the coolest water coming out of the radiator or not?
I know exactly what you said. That is correct, and also not the point we are trying to get clarity on. You asked and I told you EXACTLY what we are looking for...(post 65). For clarity...again:
Post 56 stated a minimal difference of 1-2C(max values mind you) was noted in the 'outdated' testing. You are alluding to the fact that it is more and it makes a bigger difference than what we have stated and the testing we have by telling us its old data/rads cool better, etc...are you not?
If you are not contesting that it is 1-2C difference within the loop, then say so. It was pretty clear what I was getting at. Twice.
Post 56 stated a minimal difference of 1-2C(max values mind you) was noted in the 'outdated' testing. You are alluding to the fact that it is more and it makes a bigger difference than what we have stated and the testing we have by telling us its old data/rads cool better, etc...are you not?
If you are not contesting that it is 1-2C difference within the loop, then say so. It was pretty clear what I was getting at. Twice.
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- Joined
- May 8, 2011
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Well there you verified the water temperature coming out of the radiator so what is your problem with what I stated?
I have a right to an opinion the same as you do.
Explain to me why you bunked Martin's testing, yet, if that was your point that it is simply a bit cooler out of the rads, PROVES exactly what you (and I) are saying? That is where I think things got confusing... is that you hated on the testing that actually proves your point. Thus, to readers, it seems like you bunked the point in general, particularly when you glossed over me saying that, twice. We've said 1-2C twice now and you plowed right through it...
Also, nobody said you couldn't have an opinion. Stop playing a martyr, you aren't one and its awfully unbecoming.
Also, nobody said you couldn't have an opinion. Stop playing a martyr, you aren't one and its awfully unbecoming.
- Joined
- May 8, 2011
- Location
- Darlington, South Carolina
#1 Confirms what I already alluded to regarding my opinion in a suggested loop order that the coldest coolant was coming out of the radiator.
#2 A 2nd confirmation.
#3 Is your opinion of what most users here need.
#4 Is an assumption.
All I have suggested is options, whether the OP takes that information and uses it is up to him.
- Joined
- May 8, 2011
- Location
- Darlington, South Carolina
What is this martyr commenting you're making, I'm just here to help.
IMO you are making a big deal out of nothing!
Was Martin your best friend or something?
Really, I am not trying to make a big deal out of anything. At this point, I don't understand why you bunked testing that proves your point. Because you bunked the testing:
to those reading you posts, it appeared you inferred there is MORE gains to be had the the negligible 1-2C we reference multiple times earlier. Now, you are essentially agreeing with us in that there is a 1-2C difference... which fits generically with what you initially said (coolest part of the loop is after a rad).
I have zero relationship to martin or his website. Just trying to get some clarity is all.
EDIT: Anyway, I digress, I see, for the most part, this is a simple misunderstanding.
to those reading you posts, it appeared you inferred there is MORE gains to be had the the negligible 1-2C we reference multiple times earlier. Now, you are essentially agreeing with us in that there is a 1-2C difference... which fits generically with what you initially said (coolest part of the loop is after a rad).
I have zero relationship to martin or his website. Just trying to get some clarity is all.
EDIT: Anyway, I digress, I see, for the most part, this is a simple misunderstanding.
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- May 8, 2011
- Location
- Darlington, South Carolina
My dad used to call this making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Since you have come after me with making the martyr comments, wouldn't this be considered thread disruption?
As a past moderator myself I realize the necessity of making sure that no false information is posted but you seem to be going beyond that.
You're stuck on one thing and disregarding what I actually did say, not what you assumed I was saying!
I see in much of what you've written you agree what I said is correct, but then you add additional input that I did not even say.
I have to say at this point you remind me of an old girlfriend I had, if you talked to her long enough, you would be responsible for the failures of the relationship, when she was the one that actually did the cheating.
Since you have come after me with making the martyr comments, wouldn't this be considered thread disruption?
As a past moderator myself I realize the necessity of making sure that no false information is posted but you seem to be going beyond that.
You're stuck on one thing and disregarding what I actually did say, not what you assumed I was saying!
I see in much of what you've written you agree what I said is correct, but then you add additional input that I did not even say.
I have to say at this point you remind me of an old girlfriend I had, if you talked to her long enough, you would be responsible for the failures of the relationship, when she was the one that actually did the cheating.
You bunked the testing that supported what you were saying...so it was run with... in error or not, that is clearly where the confusion started. It is has now been corrected (though the reason you bunked supporting evidence is still confusing in my head). I guess explaining what happened was just too much too much to follow.
I didn't add anything, it was alluded to with your posts. 3 people picked up on it (those that thanked my post).
The irony in your last line!!
Nice!
Anyway, its clear as mud now what happened, so, let's all move on.
I didn't add anything, it was alluded to with your posts. 3 people picked up on it (those that thanked my post).
The irony in your last line!!
Nice! Anyway, its clear as mud now what happened, so, let's all move on.
- Joined
- May 8, 2011
- Location
- Darlington, South Carolina
Thank You I agree!
If I offended you I apologize!
Have a great day Earthdog!
If I offended you I apologize!
Have a great day Earthdog!
- Thread Starter
- #78
As far as I know, the coldest water is not coming out from radiators. actually after having the system run , the water temp on every part of the loop is same degree. and for that it doesnt matter how u setup ur loop.
Thanks everyone. this forum made my puzzle completed ( for the most part )
Silver u have being great. I would like to keep this thread running till i actually close this loop.
Thanks everyone. this forum made my puzzle completed ( for the most part )
Silver u have being great. I would like to keep this thread running till i actually close this loop.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Location
- Small town Emlenton, PA
Your temp probes have a large variance or you don't have any. Or you aren't running stress tests for an hour and measuring temps. At idle or low usage your probes are not able to measure the difference in temps. Get some laboratory grade temp probes at $100 each and a interface board and the software. Spend $500 and retract your statement.
