Kaby Lake Announced

Raw speed is certainly appreciated at OCF but isn't the only criteria that Intel, or any chip designer, would be in the business of considering. Multi-core and hyper threading are examples of ways to increase compute power without increasing speed, a dynamic that engineers must consider as heat and voltage are critical considerations in large scale applications. And the silicon + the laws of physics, consumer demand (smaller less power hungry in phones, TVs, etc.) and R&D on new technologies mean that the business end of the industry will take the path of most revenue & ROI. The need for speed is pretty much localized at the enthusiast level.

I'm already curious as to how one would get more speed out of a quantum computer; what is the next word up from instantaneous?

wingman99 said:

Who said anything about 24/7 and cooling, I was making a reference to the Chinese site tossed a 5GHz bench mark number.

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Because who you were talking to mentioned a "5Ghz boost" which would be "24/7"... boost isn't 'overclocking'.

Simultaneous? It is a thing in quantum theory. Paired particles and all....

Tech Tweaker said:

Yeah, necessity is the mother of invention, and quite frankly Intel hasn't had much need to invent or innovate much lately. With AMD being on the same somewhat misguided architecture for the past 5 years or so, and with it being worse in some ways than Deneb and Thuban (Phenom II), Intel probably hasn't seen much point in investing time, energy, and money into new innovations to make their chips faster when their main competitor already hasn't been much of a threat lately.

I am hopeful that Zen will at least be worthwhile to take a look at though. Hope they've learned from their mistakes with Bulldozer, and Piledriver, and at least make something the outperforms them and the Phenom II CPU's and can at least get close to Intel's top chips on some socket type.

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I'm thinkng it won't be much more than your basic refresh of Skylake with an improved memory controller for better RAM speeds. For OC'ing itself I'm also of the thought you won't see much if anything improved over what's typically seen already except for if running it with turbo enabled for an otherwise stock setup, as in a small bump in it's turbo speeds and that's really about it. I've noted the tendency for these latest chips to top out earlier than older model chips too but as long as it's efficiency justfies it I guess that's OK.

I guess from my personal standpoint my wittle 3770K Ivy Bridge even now is still viable and if I were to just run it the chip would do well enough on it's own.

Now....
AMD could also be catching up a little because of the limitations of current CPU architecture itself in that you can't go but so far and that's it based on what we currently know - Most likely Intel is now having to squeeze the lemon hard for more juice.

AMD can however use this time to catchup and Zen is looking like it could very well bring them closer but as I've seen it said earlier that in real world terms remains to be seen. We've heard all the hype before, now they really need to deliver or this time it's gonna stick but good.

I saw speculation on other tech news sites that Intel may in the near future start reducing max performance as they optimise more for power saving. Those in the "can't have enough power" camp like myself will just have to work around it with more cores/sockets/systems.

I think the only thing that might make me get a Kaby Lake at this point is if it can indeed run 5+ GHz 24/7 with high end air cooling and non-silly volts to get there. I don't think that's likely to happen though.

I also wouldn't look at Zen to be a saviour either. While of course there are many unknowns, AMD's demo only gives the impression it is IPC competitive to Broadwell (at that task) and was that a best case? I wouldn't expect performance miracles from them, only that bang for buck will probably be better.

If AMD can pull off Broadwell IPCs at Piledriver speeds it could be an impressive chip. I love speculation. LOL

Oh I fully expect it to be haswell/broadwell/skylake IPC with clocks around 4ghz. The big question in MY head is how much are they going to charge? If the octo with HT is closer to skylake IPC than haswell, AMD could easily come in at $500 there. This would undercut the intel part by half....but is it suddenly affordable at $500? What about the quad with HT part? Where will that come in?

It will be interesting to see where AMD decides to come in price wise. It cause a long needed market shift on pricing...

EarthDog said:

Because who you were talking to mentioned a "5Ghz boost" which would be "24/7"... boost isn't 'overclocking'.

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The i7 7700K is slated for 4.5GHz Boost that dose not make sense.

People claimed.
Sandy Bridge-E claimed to reach 5GHz on air. Nope.
Haswell claimed to reach 5GHz on air. Nope.
Devils Canyon claimed to reach 5GHz on air, by everyone. Nope.
Broadwell C claimed to reach 5GHz on air. Fell a lot short.
Skylake claimed to reach 5GHz on air, by quite a lot of People. Nope.
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/typical-core-i7-7700k-overclock-guesses.2485145/#post-38452087

With the claimed improvements in the memory controller it may provide an overall nudge up in system performance, but I doubt it will be noticeable to the vast majority of users. I'm certainly not going to sell my 6700k to get a Kaby Lake. I see the main market being new Dells and HPs, etc., or people who are ready to build and want the most current chip.

This will most likely be my next CPU, an i7 hopefully. Unless Zen really surprises us that is. My 2500k is feeling its age in modern games!

So, will Haswell, Haswell-E, Devil's Canyon and Broadwell prices drop a lot?
I don't really know how well Intel chips hold their value...

Silver_Pharaoh said:

So, will Haswell, Haswell-E, Devil's Canyon and Broadwell prices drop a lot?
I don't really know how well Intel chips hold their value...

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No, unfortunately they never drop much after new chip family is introduced. I think Devil Canyon chips are still going for near original retail value. I think it has to do with Intel creating new sockets every two chip family iterations.

DoombotBL said:

I think it has to do with Intel creating new sockets every two chip family iterations.

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Which is annoying, and I run AMD in my daily rig lol.

Can't understand that. Why do they need new sockets all the time? Are they just showing off new tech and rubbing it in AMD's face?

Silver_Pharaoh said:

Which is annoying, and I run AMD in my daily rig lol.

Can't understand that. Why do they need new sockets all the time? Are they just showing off new tech and rubbing it in AMD's face?

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You said it, it's a business practice decision IMO. They really don't need a new socket every two gens.

Keeps people buying... its a racket.

That said, X99 has been around for years now. Granted, its only 2 CPU gens (and literally 2 years), but still... Skylake-E won't be here for a while so it may last 3 years.

At the same time, how do you keep adding new features in the CPU without changing the board? You could run like AMD did and have PCIe2.0 in 2016 when 3.0 came out in 2010 (spec'd) boards saw it in 2012 IIRC?

I don't think prices will drop much on the last 3 generations because the performance isn't that far off from the new chips. Unless the "latest and greatest" is a must have for somebody, I don't see a need for anything newer than Devil's Canyon for most people who aren't building a new rig. For what I do, a Haswell would have been more than enough. My 6700k is overkill, but I was building new so I went with the most recent because it has to last me a long time. I certainly didn't have a need for the last few percentage points of speed.

EarthDog said:

Keeps people buying... its a racket.

That said, X99 has been around for years now. Granted, its only 2 CPU gens (and literally 2 years), but still... Skylake-E won't be here for a while so it may last 3 years.

At the same time, how do you keep adding new features in the CPU without changing the board? You could run like AMD did and have PCIe2.0 in 2016 when 3.0 came out in 2010 (spec'd) boards saw it in 2012 IIRC?

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Ya but even you know that no one can saturate the PCI 2.0 bus yet

Silver_Pharaoh said:

So, will Haswell, Haswell-E, Devil's Canyon and Broadwell prices drop a lot?
I don't really know how well Intel chips hold their value...

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DoombotBL said:

No, unfortunately they never drop much after new chip family is introduced. I think Devil Canyon chips are still going for near original retail value. I think it has to do with Intel creating new sockets every two chip family iterations.

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Yeah, my 4690K's price is still the same as it was when I bought one last November (2015) $239.99 USD at Newegg. And used ones are still pulling in $180-220+ on ebay, which isn't a great deal compared to the new ones' pricing when you consider the probable lack of a warranty for the minimal price decrease.

I would have thought they would have come down to $200 or $180 by now, but, nope. Glad I bought it on sale at $200 though.

Pricing on older CPU's is a little more reasonable (depending upon socket type). The 4670K's are a little better value at $140-175 on ebay (but some are above $200). The hyper-threaded CPU's are a bit expensive though, when I was checking out 3770K's around 6-8 months ago the used one's were still commonly $300+ USD on ebay.

Tech Tweaker said:

Yeah, my 4690K's price is still the same as it was when I bought one last November (2015) $239.99 USD at Newegg. And used ones are still pulling in $180-220+ on ebay, which isn't a great deal compared to the new ones' pricing when you consider the probable lack of a warranty for the minimal price decrease.

I would have thought they would have come down to $200 or $180 by now, but, nope. Glad I bought it on sale at $200 though.

Pricing on older CPU's is a little more reasonable (depending upon socket type). The 4670K's are a little better value at $140-175 on ebay (but some are above $200). The hyper-threaded CPU's are a bit expensive though, when I was checking out 3770K's around 6-8 months ago the used one's were still commonly $300+ USD on ebay.

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I could get a 3770k for around $220 on Ebay or on /r/hardwareswap for ~$200 if I catch it fast enough. I'd rather put that money towards a SkyLake/KabyLake upgrade though.

Silver_Pharaoh said:

Ya but even you know that no one can saturate the PCI 2.0 bus yet

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1-2%...that was with a 980/fury x.

I'd rather not start off in the hole, even if it's barely anything, if at all possible.