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FRONTPAGE AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU Review
- Thread starter Overclockers.com
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- Jan 4, 2012
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. He just described every boost state ever, and I don't even know who he is arguing with.
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bleak, just saying, you are wrong about 'never' hitting max turbo.
I really don't get what you are trying to say. Yes turbo steals from unused cores. Yes it clocks higher. No, most people who OC don't OC via turbo boost, as tubro boost is a fickle beast, which results in reduced performance compared to a normal OC where the base clock is raised as high as possible. There is more to turbo boost than you are accounting for. IIRC intel even has limits on how long a CPU can turbo boost for, even if within the proper temperatures and/or current draw.
I really don't get what you are trying to say. Yes turbo steals from unused cores. Yes it clocks higher. No, most people who OC don't OC via turbo boost, as tubro boost is a fickle beast, which results in reduced performance compared to a normal OC where the base clock is raised as high as possible. There is more to turbo boost than you are accounting for. IIRC intel even has limits on how long a CPU can turbo boost for, even if within the proper temperatures and/or current draw.
Not arguing with anyone, someone asked me a question, i answered him.
I would just like to see someone overclock an 8 core CPU for less than 8 core work instead of down-clocking that one core the software is ACUTALLY RUNNING ON it so that windows will boot. instead of dialing down max turbo and bench-marking workloads with 2-4 threads.
Pro tip: If you have 10000 cores, and run Quake on it, a good single core CPU will beat it, doesn't matter if you run 9999 of those cores at 4.0ghz or not, if you starve the one core the game it's running on to power the others it will suffer cause of it, cause the game is single threaded, it's not hard.
I would just like to see someone overclock an 8 core CPU for less than 8 core work instead of down-clocking that one core the software is ACUTALLY RUNNING ON it so that windows will boot. instead of dialing down max turbo and bench-marking workloads with 2-4 threads.
Pro tip: If you have 10000 cores, and run Quake on it, a good single core CPU will beat it, doesn't matter if you run 9999 of those cores at 4.0ghz or not, if you starve the one core the game it's running on to power the others it will suffer cause of it, cause the game is single threaded, it's not hard.
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Pro-tip: if you are overclocking a Ryzen processor for games, the goal is to exceed the 2 core boost max
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- Jan 4, 2012
Pro-tip: if you are overclocking a Ryzen processor for games, the goal is to exceed the 2 core boost max
What if I only play red alert 2?
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- Colorado Springs, CO
Dust off your athlon XP?
Edit: I still don't get bleak's bottom line. OK, so we should only have the number of cores that one application requires? Or we shouldn't overclock our processors, as it's 'not good' on the processor and/or its performance? Turbo is cool and all, but once my better cooling arrives, I will be exceeding the 1-2 core max boost, on ALL cores
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Another tip. It's also not a "2 core boost max" it's a "2 core boost default."
Ryzen allows you to apply different settings for boosts at workloads 2, 4, 6, and 8 cores wide.
6900k lets you set up to 8 different boosts for 1-8 core wide loads.
Another pro tip. Most games don't use more than 4 cores, GTAV, Doom, so on don't even use 4 cores.
How do I know? Because while playing GTAV and Doom my 4770k boosts three cores to what I set it at, and the other core doesn't even hit min turbo.
Ryzen allows you to apply different settings for boosts at workloads 2, 4, 6, and 8 cores wide.
6900k lets you set up to 8 different boosts for 1-8 core wide loads.
Another pro tip. Most games don't use more than 4 cores, GTAV, Doom, so on don't even use 4 cores.
How do I know? Because while playing GTAV and Doom my 4770k boosts three cores to what I set it at, and the other core doesn't even hit min turbo.
The point is if you are doing a workload that will only use 6 cores, you should turbo 6 cores as high as they can go, not 8, the game/workload is only using 6 cores... put the power (watts) where the software can use it.
On AMD's previous FX processors the difference was profound, 5.0ghz on 4 cores on stock ****ty air cooling and sub 130$ boards vs 4.4ghz on all 8 cores, and burning out your VRMs or going out and buying an AIO or D15 to MAYBE hit 4.7.
Same thing with the 6900k.
I undrstand the idea seems to be "bigger coolers" and "more power" but short of l2n you're always going to have physical limitations.
On AMD's previous FX processors the difference was profound, 5.0ghz on 4 cores on stock ****ty air cooling and sub 130$ boards vs 4.4ghz on all 8 cores, and burning out your VRMs or going out and buying an AIO or D15 to MAYBE hit 4.7.
Same thing with the 6900k.
I undrstand the idea seems to be "bigger coolers" and "more power" but short of l2n you're always going to have physical limitations.
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1) do you have a Ryzen system?
2) what are you getting at?
I ask 1) because I have yet to see ANYONE able to modify Ryzen's turbo system. Much less a single core's multiplier. It's all or nothing on Ryzen at the moment.
I ask 2) because I am not the only person who cannot figure out what you are going on and on and on about turbo frequencies.
Turbo =/= 24/7 clock speed on X cores.
Turbo works when it can. Turbo does not effect the unloaded core frequency. It only effect the core when a load is put on it. Turbo does not equal overclocking. Turbo performance is generally less than a good overclock on all cores. Turbo is useless if overclocking the way to get maximum benefit from your CPU.
2) what are you getting at?
I ask 1) because I have yet to see ANYONE able to modify Ryzen's turbo system. Much less a single core's multiplier. It's all or nothing on Ryzen at the moment.
I ask 2) because I am not the only person who cannot figure out what you are going on and on and on about turbo frequencies.
Turbo =/= 24/7 clock speed on X cores.
Turbo works when it can. Turbo does not effect the unloaded core frequency. It only effect the core when a load is put on it. Turbo does not equal overclocking. Turbo performance is generally less than a good overclock on all cores. Turbo is useless if overclocking the way to get maximum benefit from your CPU.
Bluefalcon13.
No, I don't, and haven't seen anyone modify the turbo system either.
That's mostly why I'm so bitchy about it. I gotten nice results on my Intel Quad core i7 haswell (in gaming, naturally Blender Render and Cinibench is actually a little lower).
Otherwise I'd just post my results on whether it's worth the effort instead of using hypotheticals.
No, I don't, and haven't seen anyone modify the turbo system either.
That's mostly why I'm so bitchy about it. I gotten nice results on my Intel Quad core i7 haswell (in gaming, naturally Blender Render and Cinibench is actually a little lower).
Otherwise I'd just post my results on whether it's worth the effort instead of using hypotheticals.
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OK. So your bottom line up front (BLUF):
-You like to 'OC' via turbo
-Ryzen cannot 'OC' via turbo at this point
-Therefore you do not like Ryzen?
Most people on this forum do not 'OC' via turbo, as it is not considered a real overclock. Its just pushing the turbo limits. Thank you for clarifying what you were saying.
All I can say is the most I can max overclock on my 4770k (very bad bin, very bad TIM, I don't want to delid) to 4.4/4.4/4.3/4.1 easily enough on D15 air, at pretty low voltage. Gaming perf is great. Prime95 (AVX2.0 enabled) 24/7 tested. I mine dodgecoins with it like this.
I could hit 4.4ghz on all cores and game as well, performance is almost exactly the same. But in Blender or Cinebench it starts to overheat, and then crashes. No way could I mine with this.
Sure, I could reboot and change profiles at least twice a day, but gaming perf is just as good, optimized games run fine anyway, and I can still mine and render without reboots.
Without using Turbos I'd be stuck at 4.1ghz all the time, or getting a 150$ AIO. I don't like water, but even if I did do this I could just increase voltage more and theoretically get better turbos (assuming I didn't hit the perf/watt wall), vs w/e I wanted to run the base OC at.
I see friends with 6900k they are in the same situation, but it's compounded/multiplied by having twice the cores.
Whether or not AMD R7 behaves different I honestly dunno, but I see most people are running into thermal bottlenecks at full load not blue screens in narrow loads.
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Ryzen can OC via turbo though. Ryzen Master and AMD Turbo Core software let you set turbos at varying 2-4-6-8 workloads.
I assume some boards will let you do this in BIOS as well. Asus usually allows these settings.
Just nobody does it, has tried it, or has reviewed it. That's what i'm moaning about.
I could hit 4.4ghz on all cores and game as well, performance is almost exactly the same. But in Blender or Cinebench it starts to overheat, and then crashes. No way could I mine with this.
Sure, I could reboot and change profiles at least twice a day, but gaming perf is just as good, optimized games run fine anyway, and I can still mine and render without reboots.
Without using Turbos I'd be stuck at 4.1ghz all the time, or getting a 150$ AIO. I don't like water, but even if I did do this I could just increase voltage more and theoretically get better turbos (assuming I didn't hit the perf/watt wall), vs w/e I wanted to run the base OC at.
I see friends with 6900k they are in the same situation, but it's compounded/multiplied by having twice the cores.
Whether or not AMD R7 behaves different I honestly dunno, but I see most people are running into thermal bottlenecks at full load not blue screens in narrow loads.
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Ryzen can OC via turbo though. Ryzen Master and AMD Turbo Core software let you set turbos at varying 2-4-6-8 workloads.
I assume some boards will let you do this in BIOS as well. Asus usually allows these settings.
Just nobody does it, has tried it, or has reviewed it. That's what i'm moaning about.
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- Jun 28, 2012
Then get a system and do it.
If Ryzen turbo is a 2-core-wide or nothing deal I'm honestly supersized.
I thought it was just the configuration, Intel does the same thing on some models, 4/4/2/2 and so on, two states, but you could still go in and alter them.
Power stealing made a lot of sense on x99 CPUs, granted Quad cores not so much.
I was sure I'd read on Anand or Toms that Ryzen let you set turbos in groups of 2.
Ugh, never-mind then.
/thread
I thought it was just the configuration, Intel does the same thing on some models, 4/4/2/2 and so on, two states, but you could still go in and alter them.
Power stealing made a lot of sense on x99 CPUs, granted Quad cores not so much.
I was sure I'd read on Anand or Toms that Ryzen let you set turbos in groups of 2.
Ugh, never-mind then.
/thread
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I haven't dove into Turbo yet but I do know that with Ryzen, on the CHVI motherboard you can set custom P-states essentially setting P0 as max stable clock that you tested as working. Allowing the system to cycle up and down when it fells it's necessary. ON all cores. It's a bit iffy for everyone and not that self explanatory needs some hex input but it is possible to modify all P-states
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That's not what he is talking about. He is talking about modifying the max turbo frequency for a given number of cores. I barely got my system up and running, and last night stopped at Ryzen master not launching. I didn't see anything in my BIOS for changing the turbo boost levels. Right now I am working on some other stuff. I just couldn't figure out what this guy was saying. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle!
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