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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ||Console|| View Post
    Why does everyone hate w10 I haven't had one problem with it. If I can't get my key to transfer to a new system I might even buy it (last os I bought was windows 95).
    But will probably be one of those online one keys you can get for 20$
    There's literally hundreds (if not more) of Win10 bashing threads scattered through all the forums on the web, but mainly for the updates and privacy issues. There's ways to go around it but envolves messing around with parts of the system M$ doesn't want you to access let alone modify (and certain updates reset your modifications).
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  2. #22
    c(π*199780) Senior Member c627627's Avatar
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    Well put.
    I would clarify that *all* major new Windows 10 builds reset many modifications.

    Kenrou's thread from September of 2016 is actually very informative as far as this thread's topic goes:
    http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...nly-Windows-10

    This thread and the old thread should be merged since the old thread had particularly informative posts made by Dolk for example.
    Or this one made by Gautam.
    [Both these fellows actually work(ed) with AMD and Intel CPU designs (!)]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gautam View Post
    C6 asked me to comment, but I'm afraid I don't have much more to say than the usual. You won't get goodies like AVX-512 and any brand-spanking new instructions unless you're using the latest OS. You might miss out on bleeding edge power management functionality. You'll run into similar issues if you run a dated Linux kernel, if it matters to you, which it likely doesn't. None of this is at all a deal-breaker. It's ammunition for Microsoft's case in trying to get the world to always adopt their latest OS, though hardly a good enough reason in real terms to prevent people from using older OSes outright. That's just something that they want, for all the obvious reasons. Introducing new instructions and security features, though, are admittedly not somethings that can easily be patched into an OS. Not that they can't be, but it's obviously something that MS would rather not spend time and money on, which is understandable.

    On the engineering front, MS starts working with Intel and AMD very early in their product development cycles. In some sense, the CPU architecture, the compiler, and the kernel are all developed in conjunction. This also goes for Apple and Linux. The CPU does not need to be taped out to develop the software. You can bet that AMD and Intel have been as clued into Windows 10 development (and the other OSes) as they needed to be for the past few years. You can safely assume that the development cycle for both an OS from Microsoft and a CPU from Intel/AMD to be in the territory of 3-5 years, from starting as a Powerpoint presentation to becoming a retail product.
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  3. Thanks!

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  4. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenrou View Post
    There's literally hundreds (if not more) of Win10 bashing threads scattered through all the forums on the web, but mainly for the updates and privacy issues. There's ways to go around it but envolves messing around with parts of the system M$ doesn't want you to access let alone modify (and certain updates reset your modifications).
    I know people bash it all the time but besides the "spying" I love the os . If MS really wants to check what games I play the porn I watch and torrents I download it doesn't really bother me.
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  5. #24
    c(π*199780) Senior Member c627627's Avatar
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    We've covered lack of modification options and privacy concerns in Windows 10 for two years now, I think the way to go is to say "Good for you man, it's really good that you are happy with Windows 10" and get back to the thread topic which is:

    1. When someone here installs Windows 8 on Kaby Lake, please post.
    2. Can manually downloaded monthly roll-up files be applied to Kaby Lake, bypassing Windows Update altogether?
    3. Getting an idea of what advanced features would be missing under Windows 8 on Kaby Lake, because if they are minor, or not as useful to how we use our computers, then that would be good news for people who want to modify Windows and don't want to jump through hoops to limit privacy exposure / disable advertisements, etc. - all the stuff we will have to do in 2023 once Windows 8 expires, but that's half a decade from now, so sticking with [Windows 8 + Classic Shell] is just an easier way to spend the next five years for those of us that spend time modifying Windows...
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  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ||Console|| View Post
    I know people bash it all the time but besides the "spying" I love the os . If MS really wants to check what games I play the porn I watch and torrents I download it doesn't really bother me.
    That's just the tip of the iceberg, everything you do on the PC gets recorded one way or another. There was a phase where they were uninstalling supposedly cracked games, read all they ended up doing was uninstall perfectly legit games and breaking the OS in the process and let's not forget the botched updates and drivers on which you had no opinion on whether to install (screw you non-unlimited internet users). And you know what they do with the info ? sell it to 3rd party companies, you know, the ones that like to flood your email with spam. If the police thinks you might have done something wrong ? they will reveal the contents of your hard drive to them regardless of your opinion on the matter and they don't even have to notify you (this was on the "sign before you agree" part if memory serves).

    To most people this is an issue regardless if they did something or not, simply because if violates your right to your privacy. Ofc you don't HAVE to install Windows (or you can go back to Win8.1, arguably the best OS so far) but the competition is scarce and not gamer-friendly

    Quote Originally Posted by c627627 View Post
    We've covered lack of modification options and privacy concerns in Windows 10 for two years now, I think the way to go is to say "Good for you man, it's really good that you are happy with Windows 10" and get back to the thread topic.
    Sorry was halfway through my answer
    Last edited by Kenrou; 03-17-17 at 10:59 AM.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenrou View Post
    There's literally hundreds (if not more) of Win10 bashing threads scattered through all the forums on the web, but mainly for the updates and privacy issues. There's ways to go around it but envolves messing around with parts of the system M$ doesn't want you to access let alone modify (and certain updates reset your modifications).
    Recent updates have removed the ability the make those changes, like disabling ads in parts of the desktop and login ad screen (I'll look for the article), in both the Home and Pro version. Enterprise is still configurable.

    Found it: https://www.howtogeek.com/298940/mic...matic-updates/

    What was disabled recently was the ability to disable the lock screen (the one that can have ads displayed on it) in Home and Pro, as well as forced updates back again with no way to delay them in Pro as was previously.
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  8. Thanks!

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  9. #27
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    And more http://www.computerworld.com/article...atest-pcs.html

    Of interest is the part that seems to rule out manually installing updates. I would guess the updates themselves will have the necessary code embedded to punish users for not bowing to the latest virus known as Windows 10.

    That message, and another that cited error code 80240037, will be triggered when attempts to retrieve updates are made from Windows 7- or Windows 8.1-equipped devices powered by seventh-generation processors from Intel and AMD -- aka "Kaby Lake" and "Bristol Ridge," respectively -- or the next-generation Snapdragon 820 series mobile CPUs from Qualcomm.
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  11. #28
    Member Jarhead7236's Avatar
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    might be a dumb question (i'm so far out of the loop with everything these days) but if i have some pending updates that haven't been DL'd or installed, will I not be able to get those? Or does this only apply to updates after the press release about not supporting on KL/Ryzen?
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  12. #29
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    I think these are pending moves on M$' part, but now would be the time to get all your updates for W8.1/7 on KL or Ryzen.
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  14. #30
    Likes Popcorn petteyg359's Avatar
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    Just reinforces my decision to stop using Windows as of this year. The only time I really need it is to run Citrix remote desktop to work from home, because it is using some encryption or something that doesn't work with krdc. My work is even in the (very slow) process of letting employees (in the IT department, at least) choose to have Linux desktops at work instead of Windows, and I suspect they'll be ready with that before they're ready to move to Windows 10.
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  15. #31
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    Oh, it gets worse.
    From July onward the Intel Skylake processors will not support Windows 7 and 8, which means users will need to update to the latest operating system in order to receive further updates.
    Skylake processors will not support Windows 7 and 8
    Anybody want to try excusing this? https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft...124409597.html

    And it becomes clearer
    However, Microsoft did not reveal how much it would charge users of Windows 7 and 8.1 devices after the free Windows update period gets over. But users can use Windows 7 and 8.1 product keys for Windows 10 installation.
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  16. #32
    c(π*199780) Senior Member c627627's Avatar
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    That is incorrect.
    Skylake Windows 7/8 Updates will be available until Windows 7/8 End Of Life. 2020 and 2023 respectively.

    Proof:
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...tems-supported
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  17. #33
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    That is entirely possible, but in that case M$ might want to get on top fixing what that article states, because as of right now that is what is being said. And that's what M$ said 8 months ago. The July cutoff caught my attention, specifically. MS never supported KL with W7/W8 updates, did they?
    Last edited by Alaric; 03-21-17 at 04:06 PM.
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  18. #34
    c(π*199780) Senior Member c627627's Avatar
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    Way before anyone had Kaby Lake, Intel said it would be for Windows 10 only.
    This is why Kaby Lake is different. There was no cut off or change about anything. From the get-go, they said Windows 10 only. So Skylake is the way to go for Win10 haters, because it will be usable under Windows 8 until 2023.
    Yes, Microsoft floated test balloons to cut off Skylake, that's where the confusion comes from, but that came to a head last year and Microsoft unequivocally stated that Skylake goes until Win8 End Of Life.

    So in 2023 we will look at and judge Windows 10, not before, because... technically there is a (costly if you don't have a key) solution - Windows 8 - until 2023.
    But hey, Windows 10 is already better than it was two years ago, and in five years, hopefully we'll get a mandatory updates OFF switch. I think we will.
    We already know how to mod most of the privacy stuff. But none of that is necessary until 2023 if you can get a Windows 8 key.
    Windows 8 + Classic Shell is the best operating system ever and we have five years to go, actually almost six years to go with it! Skylake is just fine.

    Plus who's to say we won't get manual Windows 8 Kaby Lake updates going before the year is out?
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  19. #35
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    Either M$ is pulling shenanigans (entirely possible), or the author screwed up (seems more likely at present).
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  20. #36
    c(π*199780) Senior Member c627627's Avatar
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    Anyone claiming this needs to post a 2017 Microsoft source.

    There was *massive* confusion about this a year ago. No matter how many times I posted that Microsoft OFFICIAL link which clearly says that Skylake
    will be supported on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 with all applicable security updates through the respective end of support dates.
    people would come here and post Skylake being kicked off as "news".

    Yes Microsoft wanted it that way initially.
    But then the big wigs in the industry had a talk with Microsoft and that was the end of that wish.
    Windows 8 on Skylake goes on until 2023.
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  21. #37
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    I adjusted the thread title I started on the subject to reflect the valid doubts as to its accuracy. http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...T-get-it-wrong
    As I was passing along what I read from a (semi LOL) legitimate news source, I'll wait for a correction from them.


    Forced W10 for Skylake or did IBT get it wrong?
    I changed the thread title as it seems quite possible International Business Times (original source for the article) got it wrong, intending to say Kaby Lake and using Skylake by mistake. If I find an actual correction I'll post it here and change the thread title again to reflect that.
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  22. #38
    Member Jarhead7236's Avatar
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    so, i'm a little confused...am i NOT supposed to be able to use my KL chips with 7? At all?
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  23. #39
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    You can probably use them just fine, but M$ (so far) won't be supporting any new instruction sets from KL or Ryzen in any other OS besides W10, including updates. There is no technical reason to deny updates, that's simply to force the upgrade to W10.
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  25. #40
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    And we have the update numbers to avoid, for now.
    http://www.ghacks.net/2017/03/22/kb4...ion-detection/
    updates KB4012218 and KB4012219 introduce that functionality on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 (and the server versions).
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