MSI Calls Gigabyte's PCIe Gen3 Support "Fake"

Overclockers.com · 09-09-11, 11:12 PM

Quote:

OH SNAP! Dennis Achterberg with MSI's Product Marketing is calling out Gigabyte on their claim that all of the Gigabyte 6 series boardssupport native PCIe Gen3...

Return to article to continue reading.

thideras · 09-09-11, 11:26 PM

MSI seems to have pulled the files from the website. Guess they didn't want this to get out! Oops!

I don't think Gigabyte will like being called out like this.,

cabanaboy38 · 09-10-11, 12:58 AM

If it is true I'm glad that MSI called them out.

SuperDave1685 · 09-10-11, 01:53 AM

Very interesting. Surprising to see MSI get so specific with the part numbers on those PCI-# 3.0 chips. However, I don't quite follow their logic on the BIOS slide. What does the F5 BIOS have to do with anything?

David · 09-10-11, 05:00 AM

Interesting... I can't help but feel that there must be more to this ...

Knufire · 09-10-11, 06:39 AM

As long as the board supports Ivy Bridge, does PCIe 3.0 matter to most people?

Archer0915 · 09-10-11, 09:57 AM

I see they have something about Intel specifications. As far as PCIe Intel can say all they want but the fact is PCI-sig sets the standard not Intel alone. From the article I would say MSi is confused because they don't even know where the spec comes from.

I am not saying that those specs are not correct just that calling it Intel Gen3 specification is wrong and those specs may differ.

EDIT: http://www.pcisig.com/news_room/faqs/pcie3.0_faq/#EQ1 Some information.

EDIT 2: http://www.pcisig.com/developers/mai...8ce09ce7d9479a

EDIT 3: Pericom is not the only manufacturer of the signal conditioning retimer chips (the chip that is highlighted). I really don't want to pull my GB board to see exactly what chip is used but IDT also makes the chips. Hell I am curious though.

neliz · 09-10-11, 02:22 PM

The article hasn't been pulled, the URL has been copy-pasted wrong:

Correct URL: http://media.msi.com/main.php?g2_vie...2_itemId=68762

[QUOTE=Archer0915;6954455]I see they have something about Intel specifications. As far as PCIe Intel can say all they want but the fact is PCI-sig sets the standard not Intel alone. From the article I would say MSi is confused because they don't even know where the spec comes from.

I am not saying that those specs are not correct just that calling it Intel Gen3 specification is wrong and those specs may differ.
[/url]

We know very well where the specs are coming from, but before claiming "Gen3 enabled" on your products, you must first pass verification from Intel for its future 22nm CPUs.

If it was written in text on the slide it would say something like: "Intel requires a certain number of components before a mainboard can comply with the PCI express Gen3 standard, here is what Intel needs for socket 1155 boards"

That's also the factual basis on which we can claim that other boards will not comply since they simple don't meet the specs&requirements .

Archer0915 · 09-10-11, 02:30 PM

I have some gen 2 chips on my board (I checked). I am looking at the sig information but there again this could have simply been a marketing move by GB because the sig is so stringent on backward compatability. I think all boards with PCIe X.X will support a native 3.0 card just not at 3.0 speeds.

thideras · 09-10-11, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

The article hasn't been pulled, the URL has been copy-pasted wrong:

Correct URL: http://media.msi.com/main.php?g2_vie...2_itemId=68762

Perfect. I've got a copy in case someone wants it and it disappears.

Archer0915 · 09-10-11, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

The article hasn't been pulled, the URL has been copy-pasted wrong:

Correct URL: http://media.msi.com/main.php?g2_vie...2_itemId=68762

We know very well where the specs are coming from, but before claiming "Gen3 enabled" on your products, you must first pass verification from Intel for its future 22nm CPUs.

If it was written in text on the slide it would say something like: "Intel requires a certain number of components before a mainboard can comply with the PCI express Gen3 standard, here is what Intel needs for socket 1155 boards"

That's also the factual basis on which we can claim that other boards will not comply since they simple don't meet the specs&requirements .

But there are two completely diffrent things going on here.

Are the GB boards capable of supporting a Gen3 card? Well they should but only at gen 2 speeds. So yes they have gen 3 native support. They may not have the gen 3 speeds though.

I have one of those boards and I bought it before the announcement of native gen 3 support but if I had bought it because I thought it had the support I would be peed.

I dont call it fraud but there is a marketing issue here and I expect they will be getting some boards back. I also do my own investigating and reach my own conclusions. I dont really see MSi as being anything but truthful at this point.

EDIT: Are you saying that even if they perform at gen 3 speeds and meet all of the SIG requirments it is not gen 3 because Intel does not say so? Perhaps I should say it can not be 3.0 because "Intel requires a certain number of components before a mainboard can comply with the PCI express Gen3 standard, here is what Intel needs for socket 1155 boards"? The SIG is not Intel. The Sig sets the standards not Intel or MSi. Are they in full compliance with the 3.0 standard for all ports? It does not look like it at this point.

That is a matter of semantics though because to me it is not 3.0 if it does not support the speeds.
So you must work for msi then

Bobnova · 09-10-11, 03:02 PM

It's dubious marketing on both sides, really.
MSI as they don't mention that gbt's first 8x really will (most likely) work at full PCIe3.0), gigabyte for claiming full compliance.

neliz · 09-10-11, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobnova

It's dubious marketing on both sides, really.
MSI as they don't mention that gbt's first 8x really will (most likely) work at full PCIe3.0), gigabyte for claiming full compliance.

Since x8 Gen3 has less bandwidth than x16 Gen2, in most (if not all) situations it will stay at x16 Gen2.
At least tested on boards using Gen2 switches, the CPU will stay in Gen2 mode (and then there's those cases it will fall back to Gen1

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer0915

EDIT: Are you saying that even if they perform at gen 3 speeds and meet all of the SIG requirments it is not gen 3 because Intel does not say so? Perhaps I should say it can not be 3.0 because "Intel requires a certain number of components before a mainboard can comply with the PCI express Gen3 standard, here is what Intel needs for socket 1155 boards"? The SIG is not Intel. The Sig sets the standards not Intel or MSi.

Long story short SIG controls all requirements there, no doubt about it. Intel sets the requirements for running Gen3 on their 1155 boards.
We specially adjusted our (G3) boards to comply with Intel's requirements for Gen3 support.

Quote:

Are they in full compliance with the 3.0 standard for all ports? It does not look like it at this point.

Who? what ports etc?[/quote]

Quote:

So you must work for msi then

I guess so

and thanks.

EarthDog · 09-10-11, 03:33 PM

Neliz, you are a part of MSI, correct?

neliz · 09-10-11, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthDog

Neliz, you are a part of MSI, correct?

According to this article, I'm "MSI Man"

http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/9/9/msi-...e-gen3-boards/
(not sure if that's Title worthy)

Archer0915 · 09-10-11, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

Who? what ports etc?

GB PCIe ports/slots.

I am personally looking forward to the much needed 3.0 spec. With all the lane sharing and switching and potential bottle necks for some of us who use more than the x16 slot and are rather heavy on the SATA and USB use.

neliz · 09-10-11, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer0915

GB PCIe ports/slots.

Right now, from what I can gather from both the evidence and technical descriptions, no they don't except for the G1.sniper2

Quote:

I am personally looking forward to the much needed 3.0 spec. With all the lane sharing and switching and potential bottle necks for some of us who use more than the x16 slot and are rather heavy on the SATA and USB use.

Yeah, the first (and most unexpected) performance benefits came for PCI Express based SSD controllers like the Photofast PowerDrive LSI which increased read/write performance by about 10%
Mind you that is a current PCIe2.0 card on our Gen3 boards.

Also plenty of GPGPU applications are going to benefit as bandwidth in the scientific world though today's games are built on the restraints of current tech. The only game engine that seems to scale well with bandwidth is the Id engines used in games like the Call of Duty series.

I'm really looking forward to benching the new games and see how they respond

bing · 09-14-11, 10:52 PM

Just heard from our local gigabyte's representative that GB HQ is planning to launch a legal action soon.

neliz · 09-15-11, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bing

Just heard from our local gigabyte's representative that GB HQ is planning to launch a legal action soon.

http://it.oc.com.tw/ocitview.asp?gitid=1861314

bing · 09-15-11, 02:32 AM

Rather than us going through the head-ache using google translation, why not help us what is that all about ?

Just the summary.

09-09-11, 11:26 PM	#2
thideras Banned Neckbeard Moderator Premium Member #3 Join Date: May 2006 Location: South Dakota	MSI seems to have pulled the files from the website. Guess they didn't want this to get out! Oops! I don't think Gigabyte will like being called out like this., __________________ Desktop: Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H \| 3570k 4.6 GHz \| 32 GB GSkill Ares \| GTX 570 \| 180 GB Intel & 2 TB total \| Arch Linux and Windows 7 Main server: 30 TB raw disk \| 2x Opteron 6134 \| Asus KGPE-D16 \| 128 GB RAM \| IBM M1015 \| CentOS 6.2 VM Server: Dell R710 \| 2x E5645 \| 288 GB RAM \| 8x 300 GB Velociraptor \| Xen Cloud Platform (XCP) "That's not overkill, or a lot. That's just thiderastic." -txus.palacios Current projects: Rackmount Overkill (New) \| 30/45 hard drive server Articles: Rack Mounting 101 \| Dell Perc 5/i Throughput Benchmarks Past projects: Software RAID \| The Dragon Case My Website *Want to talk directly to all* the moderators at once? Call the Mod Hotline!**
	QUOTE Thanks

09-10-11, 12:58 AM	#3
cabanaboy38 New Member Join Date: Dec 2010	If it is true I'm glad that MSI called them out.
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09-10-11, 01:53 AM	#4
SuperDave1685 Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USMC.. OoRah!!	Very interesting. Surprising to see MSI get so specific with the part numbers on those PCI-# 3.0 chips. However, I don't quite follow their logic on the BIOS slide. What does the F5 BIOS have to do with anything? __________________ ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) *Main Rig-i7 920 D0 @ 4.2Ghz (1.17v), ASUS Rampage II Extreme, 12 GB Patriot DDR3 1600, ATI HD5970 @ 775/1100, SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer, OCZ Revo X2 Drive SSD, 500GB, 1TB SATA, PCP&C Silencer 750W , D5 pump, Thermochill PA 120.3 w/ 3 Yate Loon Mediums, Swiftech Apogee XT*, Lian-Li PC-G75, ASUS VW226H 25.5", Logitech Z-5300e THX 5.1 Speakers My Massive PC Cleaning Thread! Heatware \| If the Army and the Navy Ever look on Heaven's scenes, They will find the streets are guarded By United States Marines. OoRah!
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09-10-11, 05:00 AM	#5
David Forums Super Moderator Overclockers.com Lead Editor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hiding from Americans and making pretty colours in a drybox in St Andrews	Interesting... I can't help but feel that there must be more to this ... __________________ David J. Nelson MChem(Edin) PhD(Strath) AMRSC [Academia Profile] OC Forums Super Moderator // Overclockers.com Editor The Workhorse: [Lenovo W510] Intel Core i7-720QM / 8 GB DDR3 / nVidia Quadro FX880M / Crucial M4 256 GB SSD / Windows 7 The HTPC/Server: AMD Phenom X4 9650 / 6 GB DDR2 / nVidia 8300 / 5 TB of HDDs / Antec Solo II Case / Windows 7 The Gaming Rig: AMD Llano A6-3650 / 4 GB DDR3 / nVidia GTX260 / 2x 500 GB HDD in RAID0 / Antec Dark Fleet DF-85 Case / Windows 7 The Benchmarking Setup: Various LGA775 chips / Asus Rampage Formula / 2 GB OCZ 1066 MHz DDR2 / nVidia Quadro NVS 285 / 320 GB HDD / Windows 7 My research fellowship is eating all my time, so I may be slow to reply to emails and private messages.
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09-10-11, 06:39 AM	#6
Knufire Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI	As long as the board supports Ivy Bridge, does PCIe 3.0 matter to most people? __________________ i7-920 3.8 Ghz \| Venomous-X w/ Panaflo HS \| Sapphire Vapor-X 4890 EVGA X58 SLI LE \| 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600 \| 500GB Samsung OEM \| Rosewill 850w \| Thermaltake Armor Series \| OCZ Vertex 2 60GB Secondary Rig: CM Elite 430 \| A8-3870K stock \| Radeon HD 6670 \| 500GB WD Caviar Blue \| 4GB G.SKILL DDR3-1333 \| ASUS A55 HEATWARE
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MSI Calls Gigabyte's PCIe Gen3 Support "Fake"

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09-10-11, 09:57 AM	#7
Archer0915 "The Expert" Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: In Nashville NC setting up a monster of a money pitt.	I see they have something about Intel specifications. As far as PCIe Intel can say all they want but the fact is PCI-sig sets the standard not Intel alone. From the article I would say MSi is confused because they don't even know where the spec comes from. I am not saying that those specs are not correct just that calling it Intel Gen3 specification is wrong and those specs may differ. EDIT: http://www.pcisig.com/news_room/faqs/pcie3.0_faq/#EQ1 Some information. EDIT 2: http://www.pcisig.com/developers/mai...8ce09ce7d9479a EDIT 3: Pericom is not the only manufacturer of the signal conditioning retimer chips (the chip that is highlighted). I really don't want to pull my GB board to see exactly what chip is used but IDT also makes the chips. Hell I am curious though. __________________ People that buy OEM systems think Linux was a Charlie Brown character, a registry is something you see at target to buy shower gifts, RAM is a Dodge truck and a hard drive is DC at rush hour. Knowing your usage habits can help you save money and get the fastest system for you! Current Active Fleet: Daily Driver - i7@3.8, 16GB Ram, 6770 GFX Bedroom PC - SB Celerey @ 1.6, 4GB Ram Entertainment Room HTPC & Madia/File Server - 661@3.5, 4GB Ram, On Chip GFXLiving Room HTPC - E-450@1.9 GHz, 4GB Ram Game Rig - 2500K@4.5, 12GB Ram, 465GTX + 9800GT (PhysX) using intel SRT Test Bed - 3570K with various components and a TT 750w PSU HEAT Last edited by Archer0915; 09-10-11 at 01:40 PM.
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09-10-11, 02:22 PM	#8
neliz New Member Join Date: Sep 2011	The article hasn't been pulled, the URL has been copy-pasted wrong: Correct URL: http://media.msi.com/main.php?g2_vie...2_itemId=68762 [QUOTE=Archer0915;6954455]I see they have something about Intel specifications. As far as PCIe Intel can say all they want but the fact is PCI-sig sets the standard not Intel alone. From the article I would say MSi is confused because they don't even know where the spec comes from. I am not saying that those specs are not correct just that calling it Intel Gen3 specification is wrong and those specs may differ. [/url] We know very well where the specs are coming from, but before claiming "Gen3 enabled" on your products, you must first pass verification from Intel for its future 22nm CPUs. If it was written in text on the slide it would say something like: "Intel requires a certain number of components before a mainboard can comply with the PCI express Gen3 standard, here is what Intel needs for socket 1155 boards" That's also the factual basis on which we can claim that other boards will not comply since they simple don't meet the specs&requirements .
	QUOTE Thanks

09-10-11, 02:30 PM	#9
Archer0915 "The Expert" Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: In Nashville NC setting up a monster of a money pitt.	I have some gen 2 chips on my board (I checked). I am looking at the sig information but there again this could have simply been a marketing move by GB because the sig is so stringent on backward compatability. I think all boards with PCIe X.X will support a native 3.0 card just not at 3.0 speeds. __________________ People that buy OEM systems think Linux was a Charlie Brown character, a registry is something you see at target to buy shower gifts, RAM is a Dodge truck and a hard drive is DC at rush hour. Knowing your usage habits can help you save money and get the fastest system for you! Current Active Fleet: Daily Driver - i7@3.8, 16GB Ram, 6770 GFX Bedroom PC - SB Celerey @ 1.6, 4GB Ram Entertainment Room HTPC & Madia/File Server - 661@3.5, 4GB Ram, On Chip GFXLiving Room HTPC - E-450@1.9 GHz, 4GB Ram Game Rig - 2500K@4.5, 12GB Ram, 465GTX + 9800GT (PhysX) using intel SRT Test Bed - 3570K with various components and a TT 750w PSU HEAT
	QUOTE Thanks

09-10-11, 03:02 PM	#12
Bobnova Air Superiority Senior Member Benching Team Leader Join Date: May 2009 Location: Humboldt	It's dubious marketing on both sides, really. MSI as they don't mention that gbt's first 8x really will (most likely) work at full PCIe3.0), gigabyte for claiming full compliance. __________________ "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -- Einstein (maybe) How to check your PSU with a multimeter. 17bXw5t51rEBXGavJFMJsC8g7HQgThUGc7 Heatware.
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09-10-11, 03:33 PM	#14
EarthDog Senior PITA Member Overclockers.com Editor Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Stuck in Maryland...	Neliz, you are a part of MSI, correct? __________________ Should I R0 my SSD? / Sandy/Ivybridge Overclocking Guide / Haswell Overclocking Guide / AMD Overclocking Guide / Power Supply Guide SSD Reliability/Write Endurance / JOIN THE BENCHING TEAM! / Bulldozer Overclocking Guide Want to see your writing featured on the overclockers.com Front Page? PM me, I can help! "We have more information and more ways of accessing it than ever, yet seem increasingly less inclined to do so."- Michael Wilbon
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09-14-11, 10:52 PM	#18
bing Low Profile Senior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Indonesia	Just heard from our local gigabyte's representative that GB HQ is planning to launch a legal action soon. __________________ █ DIY Fan Controller for 4 Wires PWM Fan \| █ Inductors are hotter than mosfets \| █ Are you HHH ? █ DIY 90 Watt Fan Controller \| █ Vintage OC-ing Gears Anyone ?
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09-15-11, 02:32 AM	#20
bing Low Profile Senior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Indonesia	Rather than us going through the head-ache using google translation, why not help us what is that all about ? Just the summary. __________________ █ DIY Fan Controller for 4 Wires PWM Fan \| █ Inductors are hotter than mosfets \| █ Are you HHH ? █ DIY 90 Watt Fan Controller \| █ Vintage OC-ing Gears Anyone ?
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