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Old 09-24-11, 09:44 AM   #21
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Possible if the OEMs provide the means to do so. If they don't.... well, that's the issue.

For desktop PCs we can build our own, but this is much harder for laptops.

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Old 09-24-11, 10:15 AM   #22
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I wonder how much leverage Microsoft really has with the OEM computer market. Would all these manufacturers like ASUS, EVGA, Gigabyte, MSI, and even Intel want that kind of decreased market share because Microsoft wants Exclusivity like Apple.

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Old 09-24-11, 10:29 AM   #23
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it would create a 3rd form of anti-piracy in that they could code windows so it required this "lock out" on the machine to be installed, and this lock out can only be installed via a working key

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Old 09-24-11, 11:40 AM   #24
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I think this will ONLY make it harder to pirate windows. Installing linux and OS X should still be possible.
Idk, it seems every piece of software the world over has been pirated or hacked. Hell even locked consoles like x360, ps3 and wii. Granted it might take time but i doubt much time.

EDIT Then again getting a copy of someone elses windows would contain their key and just like registering a program online, it then could lock out that key if its widely used. I think I see what he's

saying.


Its kinda like torrenting a program with a key and then running it and it says this key is already in use. The key could be blacklisted. No updates to the program or maybe it stops from even working.

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Old 09-24-11, 01:47 PM   #25
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Just like the "unbreakable" dongles touted by the industry to stop piracy of high end CAD software, this too, shall be circumvented. If it can be made, it can be unmade. I've lost count of the number of times that I've had to use a cracked version of a program/game I BOUGHT, because the protection kept interfering with my actual use of it.

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Old 09-24-11, 05:16 PM   #26
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From what I've seen it's nearly impossible to crack most modern online multi player games and still keep the multi player functionality. Maybe Microsoft will take a similar approach.

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Old 09-24-11, 08:24 PM   #27
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simple run a "fake" ******** ******on your machine or a machine in your LAN and in your host file tell the computer to go to your********************************************** ********* *************this is how people played SC2 beta with no beta key

Removed items to make it more ambiguous (thanks Archer). No hard feelings; see below and the 'above reproach' position. -hokie

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Old 09-26-11, 10:48 AM   #28
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This sounds like fodder for a Government anti-trust suit.

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Old 09-26-11, 11:29 AM   #29
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Looks like you can disable the option.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20...ure-boot-issue

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Old 09-26-11, 11:58 AM   #30
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The problem may also stretch beyond just the OS, according to Garrett. Since any hardware in the PC also needs to be authenticated, installing new components in a Windows 8 PC may pose a challenge.
"A hardware vendor cannot run their hardware inside the EFI environment unless their drivers are signed with a key that's included in the system firmware," wrote Garrett. "If you install a new graphics card that either has unsigned drivers, or drivers that are signed with a key that's not in your system firmware, you'll get no graphics support in the firmware."


Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20...#ixzz1Z4w1jzpu
This is a direction I dislike.
From what I am reading it is the UEFI that has laid the path for this type of enforcement & not windows 8.

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Old 09-27-11, 07:27 PM   #31
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Well in terms of an OEM PC I can see how this could actually be helpful.

If Joe Six Pack has an OEM PC with Win8 and can't install crap ware because it's not signed that's probably a good thing. I know I've had some programs that create virtual devices/drivers and they won't install on a copy of Win7 HP (laptop). I think it might be possible to work around the security policy if I had Pro, but I don't really care that much. As far as another OS, I can see how this becomes a little dicey.

Example, Dell. They have several models that come with either Linux or Windows installed. Now either the system has to be designed to accept keys at the factory, or both sets of keys will have to be in the system when it's built. I'm betting on the former. Given that, I bet someone will make a flash that could erase the keys (assuming you can disable the safe boot option).

And how much pull does MS have with the OEMs? I think a better question is how much pull does MS have with Foxconn. I'd wager to say more than 50% of desktop systems have components from Foxconn. So if they play, then I think everyone else won't have much choice but to follow suit.

This just appears to be another step closer to the whole Trusted Computing model. So far I've seen a lot of ideas put out there, but not a lot in the way of useable hardware. Maybe this will be different, but if it has the potential to hurt the bottom line then I think it just won't be a installed without some serious consideration.
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Old 09-27-11, 07:55 PM   #32
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Nice info Jymtyra...Win 7 doing all I want right now...I'll sign up when Win 9 gets here

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Old 09-27-11, 08:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanise View Post
simple run a "fake" ******** ******on your machine or a machine in your LAN and in your host file tell the computer to go to your********************************************** ********* *************this is how people played SC2 beta with no beta key
This is frowned upon my many of the christmas guys round here. Green and red. I would suggeat an edit.

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Old 09-27-11, 08:45 PM   #34
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well TBH archer i didnt link anythign or give any specifics, as i see it; it is common knowledge for people that dont know, why try to hide information that everyone should know exists.

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Old 09-27-11, 08:59 PM   #35
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well TBH archer i didnt link anythign or give any specifics, as i see it; it is common knowledge for people that dont know, why try to hide information that everyone should know exists.
Because this site may deal with software vendors and some of us do deal with them. It is fine to mention that there may be a work around for software that you paid for but it can be used in other ways as well.

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Mentioning that there have been cracks and the like is one thing and discussing some things is fine and though your post is not a how to guide it is a little TMI.

I personally do not want MS to think I am hacking the software and I really do not want this site to get a bad name either.

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Old 09-27-11, 09:27 PM   #36
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Aye, Archer is right. For anything having to to with getting around EULA's / legit software verification / etc, we take an 'above reproach' position. It's not necessarily anyone's personal view or whatever, but is simply to protect the site. Sorry, the post has to go.

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Old 09-27-11, 10:12 PM   #37
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Yeah I don't want to seem like a prude and honestly I did not know anything about what arcanise was talking about. I really never think about those types of things and in a way this was new to me so that is to say it is not common knowledge and I have been going around the software block since the late 80s.

Arcanise it was all about the details given and I cant really recall seeing things put that way before. It is for the protection of us all and the way Big Brother has been suing people as of late I do not want to be included in a lawsuit.

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Old 09-27-11, 11:12 PM   #38
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OK Ill bite... why do you feel this way?
Uhh ok? And because it sounds like the key will be associated / intergrated with the hardware (motherboard). Harder to pirate windows, because it will have more hardware interaction relating to licensing, but why would it be hard to get rid of windows? Anywho, I'm not worried. There'll be a way around it. I mean jeeze, wasn't there a lawsuit against microsoft because they included media player and IE with windows xp? If that's considered wrong by bundling those programs then forcing the use of windows certainly will be.
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Old 09-28-11, 02:32 AM   #39
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Quote:
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I mean jeeze, wasn't there a lawsuit against microsoft because they included media player and IE with windows xp? If that's considered wrong by bundling those programs then forcing the use of windows certainly will be.
It isn't Microsoft forcing it, as they did with the bundling of preinstalled apps with windows. It's the OEM locking it to windows, if the OEM chooses to do so.

So long as there isn't Microsoft coercion upon the OEMs, I don't foresee any antitrust issues with Microsoft on this for that reason.

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Old 09-28-11, 03:51 AM   #40
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Should also make clear that buy saying OEM that means company's that sell whole computers, not just parts-manufacturers.

As I would highly doubt a manufacturer like ASUS would ever say that their boards can only be used with one OS. That would cut a huge chunk out of their revenue. But for a company like Dell however that would be perfectly reasonable.

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