Notices

Overclockers Forums > Hardware > Cooling
Cooling Discussion of fans, heatsinks, thermal pastes and putting it all together to keep your rig cool
Forum Jump

Fan in Series.

Post Reply New Thread Subscribe Search this Thread
 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-09-12, 10:43 PM Thread Starter   #1
bluezero5
Winner, Rig-o'-the-Quarter
Fourth Quarter 2012



 
bluezero5's Avatar 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tokyo

 
Fan in Series.


Just want to get some second opinion.

I have a H80 cooler.

which has a PuLL -> RAD -> Push Fan configuration.

statis temps around 86'C on stress.

I been experimenting with an extra fan, making it:

Pull -> Pull -> Rad -> Push

and temps came off by around 1'C...

on that logic, I wonder..

if I go : Pull -> Pull -> Rad -> Push -> Push

will it be able to drop the temp any further?

__________________

CM Storm Trooper Chassis - ASUS Rampage 4 Extreme
Core i7 3930k 5.0Ghz (1.52Vcore) <= 24mths! no decaying!
select1: GTX680 3x SLI @1280Mhz
select2: HD7970 GE @ 1300Mhz
32Gb Trident 2400 DDR3 10-10-12-30 T1
Motto: I didn't go water-cooling for an air-cooling Vcore!!

My Rig's build log ::: Fans 101: Going Scientific ::: Water Cooling FAQ
bluezero5 is offline Benching Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-09-12, 10:49 PM   #2
Cigarsmoker
Member



Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

 
Only way to know is to try it. At some point though the volume of air passing over the heatsink do not matter. The heatsink can only conduct heat at a certain rate. I suspect you'll get 2-3 deg temp benefit at best.
Cigarsmoker is offline   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-09-12, 11:47 PM   #3
thideras
Destroyer of Empires and User Accounts, El Huginator
Premium Member #3

 
thideras's Avatar 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Dakota

 
Unless the fan are specifically designed to be run next to each other (i.e. counter rotating blades, etc), you are only creating more noise. Just run two fans in a push/pull configuration. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few threads here that discuss this exact topic and explain exactly why it doesn't work.

__________________
Desktop: Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H | 3570k | 32 GB | GTX 770 Classified | 1 TB Samsung Evo & 2 TB HDD | Windows 3.1 | 4x 2560x1400 Monitors
VM Server 1: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 128 GB RAM | 8x 300 GB Savvio | IBM M1015 | 34 TB Raw disk | XenServer
VM Server 2: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 288 GB RAM |
8x 300 GB Savvio | XenServer
"That's not overkill, or a lot. That's just thiderastic." -txus.palacios
"Clouds are silent, cold, and wet. Servers are none of these things." -Bobnova

Current project: Rackmount Overkill (New)
Articles: Rack Mounting 101 | Dell Perc 5/i Throughput Benchmarks
My Website


Want to talk directly to all the moderators at once? Call the Mod Hotline!
thideras is offline Author Profile Benching Profile Heatware Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 12:04 AM   #4
muddocktor
Retired

 
muddocktor's Avatar 

Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Iberia, LA

10 Year Badge
 
^^^^^

What he said.

I have actually done some testing on this myself and like Thiddy said, you will just be making more noise unless you can find fans that turn in opposite directions. And since the only fans that turn in opposite direction from most normal 7-9 blade case fans are server fans generally made by Delta or Nidec, you have plenty of noise with them too.
muddocktor is offline Author Profile Benching Profile Folding Profile SETI Profile Heatware Profile Rosetta Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 12:35 AM   #5
Cojac92

 
Cojac92's Avatar 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South Carolina

 
Rather than adding fans. Try changing fans... What fans are you currently using?

__________________
CPU: i7-2700k @ 5.0GHz
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V GEN3
RAM: Mushkin Redline DDR3 1600 | 6-8-6-24 8GB.
Video Card: Sapphire 7970 OC - Dual X
Case: Corsair 650D
PSU: Corsair TX850w.
Boot: 2 x OCZ Vertex 4 128GB in RAID 0.

3x ASUS 21.5" LED IPS panels in Eyefinity @ 6024x1080

My water cooling loop, Dangerden M6 1155 block, Dangerden 800lph pump, XSPC bay reservoir, and a Black Ice Pro II 240 Radiator.
Cojac92 is offline Benching Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 07:42 AM   #6
mjw21a

 
mjw21a's Avatar 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Australia, Brisbane

 
Check out some Sanyo Denki San Ace fans. I picked up one of those monsters which will output 260CFM full bore but will also spin as low as 500RPM so it can be run quietly too. I believe they also make a 300CFM monster.

__________________
CPU & HSF: AMD FX-8120 & Noctua NH-D14
Mobo: Asus M5A97-EVO
RAM: 16GB (4Gx4) DDR3 2133 G.Skill RipjawZ F3-17000CL11Q-16GBZL
Storage: 1x 120GB OCZ Vertex II SSD, 1x 250GB Samsung 830 SSD, 1x 1.5TB Samsung Silencer Series HDD
GFX: 4GB Gigabyte ATI R9 270X OC Edition + Yamakasi Catleap Q270 SE 27" IPS LED LCD
Audio: Asus Xonar DX, Senheiser CX270 earbuds + UltraDisk 4016 Condenser Lavelier Microphone
Case & Lighting: Silverstone Temjin TJ04-E w/ Side Window + Red CCFL's
PSU: 550W Antec EarthWatts Platinum
My rig piccies & links

"Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right." H.L. MENCKEN
mjw21a is offline   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 09:13 AM Thread Starter   #7
bluezero5
Winner, Rig-o'-the-Quarter
Fourth Quarter 2012



 
bluezero5's Avatar 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tokyo

 
today I learned that Fan in Series CLEARLY improve the air flow.

by adding one more fan in my pull -> rad -> push config, I lowered the temp by 1-2 'C
(and that's my spare fan.. kinda a P.O.S.)

I plan to buy a good fan and add to it.
hopefully I can drop by 3-4 'C. then I can try to challenge a higher clock.

__________________

CM Storm Trooper Chassis - ASUS Rampage 4 Extreme
Core i7 3930k 5.0Ghz (1.52Vcore) <= 24mths! no decaying!
select1: GTX680 3x SLI @1280Mhz
select2: HD7970 GE @ 1300Mhz
32Gb Trident 2400 DDR3 10-10-12-30 T1
Motto: I didn't go water-cooling for an air-cooling Vcore!!

My Rig's build log ::: Fans 101: Going Scientific ::: Water Cooling FAQ
bluezero5 is offline Benching Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 09:17 AM   #8
thideras
Destroyer of Empires and User Accounts, El Huginator
Premium Member #3

 
thideras's Avatar 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Dakota

 
Correlation does not mean causation. You could have lower ambient temps or different load, for example. A couple hours can easily equate to 1c difference in the room, which would mean a ~1c difference in CPU temps. If everything was exactly the same, I'm guessing that it is increasing the turbulence, which is making the deadspot in front of the fan smaller or causing more air to hit the fins directly. Two fans in series will not ever increase air flow, it can increase pressure if done right (which yours is not).

__________________
Desktop: Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H | 3570k | 32 GB | GTX 770 Classified | 1 TB Samsung Evo & 2 TB HDD | Windows 3.1 | 4x 2560x1400 Monitors
VM Server 1: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 128 GB RAM | 8x 300 GB Savvio | IBM M1015 | 34 TB Raw disk | XenServer
VM Server 2: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 288 GB RAM |
8x 300 GB Savvio | XenServer
"That's not overkill, or a lot. That's just thiderastic." -txus.palacios
"Clouds are silent, cold, and wet. Servers are none of these things." -Bobnova

Current project: Rackmount Overkill (New)
Articles: Rack Mounting 101 | Dell Perc 5/i Throughput Benchmarks
My Website


Want to talk directly to all the moderators at once? Call the Mod Hotline!
thideras is offline Author Profile Benching Profile Heatware Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 09:28 AM   #9
mjw21a

 
mjw21a's Avatar 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Australia, Brisbane

 
Both Thid and Mudd know what they're talking about. I've been on here for years and generally listen whenever they have something to say. By all means experiment, though I've never really seen either wrong about something. I believe you're better off just going to better fans myself.

__________________
CPU & HSF: AMD FX-8120 & Noctua NH-D14
Mobo: Asus M5A97-EVO
RAM: 16GB (4Gx4) DDR3 2133 G.Skill RipjawZ F3-17000CL11Q-16GBZL
Storage: 1x 120GB OCZ Vertex II SSD, 1x 250GB Samsung 830 SSD, 1x 1.5TB Samsung Silencer Series HDD
GFX: 4GB Gigabyte ATI R9 270X OC Edition + Yamakasi Catleap Q270 SE 27" IPS LED LCD
Audio: Asus Xonar DX, Senheiser CX270 earbuds + UltraDisk 4016 Condenser Lavelier Microphone
Case & Lighting: Silverstone Temjin TJ04-E w/ Side Window + Red CCFL's
PSU: 550W Antec EarthWatts Platinum
My rig piccies & links

"Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right." H.L. MENCKEN
mjw21a is offline   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 10:23 AM Thread Starter   #10
bluezero5
Winner, Rig-o'-the-Quarter
Fourth Quarter 2012



 
bluezero5's Avatar 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tokyo

 
http://www.achrnews.com/articles/mul...s-and-parallel

a more technical piece on Fans in series and parallel.
mostly:

Two fans in series are normally rated as a single unit in order for AMCA rating definitions and practices to apply. To simplify selection and control, two fans of the same size are typically used with the required flow rate defined by the inlet conditions of the first fan. The combined total pressure across both fans will be the sum of the individual total pressure of each fan. Total pressures are used instead of static pressure because the fans can actually be different sizes and a change in fan or connecting duct areas has an influence upon static pressure values.

__________________

CM Storm Trooper Chassis - ASUS Rampage 4 Extreme
Core i7 3930k 5.0Ghz (1.52Vcore) <= 24mths! no decaying!
select1: GTX680 3x SLI @1280Mhz
select2: HD7970 GE @ 1300Mhz
32Gb Trident 2400 DDR3 10-10-12-30 T1
Motto: I didn't go water-cooling for an air-cooling Vcore!!

My Rig's build log ::: Fans 101: Going Scientific ::: Water Cooling FAQ
bluezero5 is offline Benching Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 10:41 AM   #11
thideras
Destroyer of Empires and User Accounts, El Huginator
Premium Member #3

 
thideras's Avatar 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Dakota

 
That is exactly what I said.

Putting fans in series will increase pressure. It will not increase air flow. But again, since the fans you are bolting together are not not made to be bolted together, it isn't going to do anything but create more noise. You need counter-rotating fans that are precisely spaced to do it effectively, you have neither.

__________________
Desktop: Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H | 3570k | 32 GB | GTX 770 Classified | 1 TB Samsung Evo & 2 TB HDD | Windows 3.1 | 4x 2560x1400 Monitors
VM Server 1: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 128 GB RAM | 8x 300 GB Savvio | IBM M1015 | 34 TB Raw disk | XenServer
VM Server 2: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 288 GB RAM |
8x 300 GB Savvio | XenServer
"That's not overkill, or a lot. That's just thiderastic." -txus.palacios
"Clouds are silent, cold, and wet. Servers are none of these things." -Bobnova

Current project: Rackmount Overkill (New)
Articles: Rack Mounting 101 | Dell Perc 5/i Throughput Benchmarks
My Website


Want to talk directly to all the moderators at once? Call the Mod Hotline!
thideras is offline Author Profile Benching Profile Heatware Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 11:01 AM Thread Starter   #12
bluezero5
Winner, Rig-o'-the-Quarter
Fourth Quarter 2012



 
bluezero5's Avatar 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tokyo

 
no. i wasn't disagreeing, just pointing out that the increase of pressure (not flow) in fact did assist. This might be due to the increased pressure meant the same flow hits the rads, seeping into deeper cracks, or whatnot..

regardless though, I went 2 fans, 1 fan, 2 fans, 1 fan and again.

result was consistent.. 2 fans lower temp under same load.
of course, ideally.. if I have a means to increase the air flow.. all the better...

__________________

CM Storm Trooper Chassis - ASUS Rampage 4 Extreme
Core i7 3930k 5.0Ghz (1.52Vcore) <= 24mths! no decaying!
select1: GTX680 3x SLI @1280Mhz
select2: HD7970 GE @ 1300Mhz
32Gb Trident 2400 DDR3 10-10-12-30 T1
Motto: I didn't go water-cooling for an air-cooling Vcore!!

My Rig's build log ::: Fans 101: Going Scientific ::: Water Cooling FAQ
bluezero5 is offline Benching Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 11:23 AM   #13
thideras
Destroyer of Empires and User Accounts, El Huginator
Premium Member #3

 
thideras's Avatar 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Dakota

 
Ok, that makes a lot more sense.

With the numbers that you are seeing (1c), the increase in noise probably isn't worth it. You'd be better off getting 38m thick fans for the increased pressure. It will be quieter and you will see the same (if not better) temps, compared to what you have now.

__________________
Desktop: Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H | 3570k | 32 GB | GTX 770 Classified | 1 TB Samsung Evo & 2 TB HDD | Windows 3.1 | 4x 2560x1400 Monitors
VM Server 1: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 128 GB RAM | 8x 300 GB Savvio | IBM M1015 | 34 TB Raw disk | XenServer
VM Server 2: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 288 GB RAM |
8x 300 GB Savvio | XenServer
"That's not overkill, or a lot. That's just thiderastic." -txus.palacios
"Clouds are silent, cold, and wet. Servers are none of these things." -Bobnova

Current project: Rackmount Overkill (New)
Articles: Rack Mounting 101 | Dell Perc 5/i Throughput Benchmarks
My Website


Want to talk directly to all the moderators at once? Call the Mod Hotline!
thideras is offline Author Profile Benching Profile Heatware Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 12:19 PM Thread Starter   #14
bluezero5
Winner, Rig-o'-the-Quarter
Fourth Quarter 2012



 
bluezero5's Avatar 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tokyo

 
i am considering that..
the only toss up is not new fans might now be compatible with Corsair H80 fan controller, which is plugged directly to the CPU top.

would it work if I just by pass it completely?
I am worried the pump would stop working if the fans aren't compatible..

__________________

CM Storm Trooper Chassis - ASUS Rampage 4 Extreme
Core i7 3930k 5.0Ghz (1.52Vcore) <= 24mths! no decaying!
select1: GTX680 3x SLI @1280Mhz
select2: HD7970 GE @ 1300Mhz
32Gb Trident 2400 DDR3 10-10-12-30 T1
Motto: I didn't go water-cooling for an air-cooling Vcore!!

My Rig's build log ::: Fans 101: Going Scientific ::: Water Cooling FAQ
bluezero5 is offline Benching Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 12:20 PM   #15
thideras
Destroyer of Empires and User Accounts, El Huginator
Premium Member #3

 
thideras's Avatar 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Dakota

 
I don't know for sure, but going into a panic mode because the fans aren't connected seems a bit silly. I'm guessing they are there for convenience, but I would test this before I bought anything.

__________________
Desktop: Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H | 3570k | 32 GB | GTX 770 Classified | 1 TB Samsung Evo & 2 TB HDD | Windows 3.1 | 4x 2560x1400 Monitors
VM Server 1: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 128 GB RAM | 8x 300 GB Savvio | IBM M1015 | 34 TB Raw disk | XenServer
VM Server 2: Dell R710 | 2x E5645 | 288 GB RAM |
8x 300 GB Savvio | XenServer
"That's not overkill, or a lot. That's just thiderastic." -txus.palacios
"Clouds are silent, cold, and wet. Servers are none of these things." -Bobnova

Current project: Rackmount Overkill (New)
Articles: Rack Mounting 101 | Dell Perc 5/i Throughput Benchmarks
My Website


Want to talk directly to all the moderators at once? Call the Mod Hotline!
thideras is offline Author Profile Benching Profile Heatware Profile   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 12:54 PM   #16
johan851
Insatiably Malcontent
Senior Member

 
johan851's Avatar 

Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Seattle, WA

10 Year Badge
 
It shouldn't cause any problems to unplug the fans from the controller for a moment while things are running. If the pump does stop, just plug them back in. If you're worried, then make sure the CPU is at idle before trying it. You shouldn't have any trouble even if the pump stops for a few seconds.

__________________
ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 | 2500K @ 4.6GHz | 2x4GB Samsung DDR3 | GTX460 768mb
120GB Crucial M4 | 2x 2TB Samsung F4 | Seasonic S12 600w
y2 DAC --> Custom M^3 --> Custom LM3875 ChipAmp --> Modula MTs
Dual Dell 2007WFP | Watercooled
johan851 is offline   QUOTE Thanks
Old 04-10-12, 04:39 PM   #17
mjw21a

 
mjw21a's Avatar 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Australia, Brisbane

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluezero5 View Post
i am considering that..
the only toss up is not new fans might now be compatible with Corsair H80 fan controller, which is plugged directly to the CPU top.

would it work if I just by pass it completely?
I am worried the pump would stop working if the fans aren't compatible..
Not really an issue. The controller in the H80 and H100 are PWM based controllers. A number of more powerful fans on the market use molex connectors to plug straight into the PSU for power, yet have a separate connector to be used to fan speed control. I'd suggest looking into something like that.

As always I like the Sanyo Denki San Ace series though you may have an easier time coming by some of the higher end Scythe Gentle Typhoons, these can be modded to be PWM fans without much trouble.

__________________
CPU & HSF: AMD FX-8120 & Noctua NH-D14
Mobo: Asus M5A97-EVO
RAM: 16GB (4Gx4) DDR3 2133 G.Skill RipjawZ F3-17000CL11Q-16GBZL
Storage: 1x 120GB OCZ Vertex II SSD, 1x 250GB Samsung 830 SSD, 1x 1.5TB Samsung Silencer Series HDD
GFX: 4GB Gigabyte ATI R9 270X OC Edition + Yamakasi Catleap Q270 SE 27" IPS LED LCD
Audio: Asus Xonar DX, Senheiser CX270 earbuds + UltraDisk 4016 Condenser Lavelier Microphone
Case & Lighting: Silverstone Temjin TJ04-E w/ Side Window + Red CCFL's
PSU: 550W Antec EarthWatts Platinum
My rig piccies & links

"Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right." H.L. MENCKEN
mjw21a is offline   QUOTE Thanks

Post Reply New Thread Subscribe


Overclockers Forums > Hardware > Cooling
Cooling Discussion of fans, heatsinks, thermal pastes and putting it all together to keep your rig cool
Forum Jump

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Mobile Skin
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
You can add these icons by updating your profile information to include your Heatware ID, Benching Profile ID or your Folding/SETI profile ID. Edit your profile!
X

Welcome to Overclockers.com

Create your username to jump into the discussion!

New members like you have made this the best community on the Internet since 1998!


(4 digit year)

Why Join Us?

  • Share experience
  • Max out your hardware
  • Best forum members anywhere
  • Customized forum experience

Already a member?