FRONTPAGE Ivy Bridge Temperatures - It's Gettin' Hot in Here

Robert17 · May 12, 2012

Bobnova said:
+1 to this.

Plus, they OC just fine. Intel doesn't care how far they OC, they just want the extra $XX for the ability to OC at all.

I think what everybody is forgetting is that Intel exists for the benefit of Intel. Not us. Not the end user. Intel will do what is best for Intel.
Given that AMD cannot compete, or even come close, to Intel in any way right now there is absolutely no reason for Intel to spend more money on soldering the chips or using a better TIM.
Leave aside the fact that you want them to, and ask yourself "why would they?".

There is no disagreement from me on this. Call me naive. When our company can produce better, safer, more enduring products, we do, cost of production becomes a matter for the customer to determine whether they want or not in the improved product. It's called Best Practices. I guess I shouldn't assume that Intel would engage in such. :shrug:

SF101 · May 12, 2012

so charge us back the 10 cents to put better tim on the cpu then.. or the 50 cents to put solder on it.

i have a feeling in 6 months intel will release the ivybridge -e's which will be no more than a soldered ivy for the 2011 platform.

txus.palacios · May 12, 2012

They should have had at least soldered the K CPUs.

xander89 · May 12, 2012

txus.palacios said:
They should have had at least soldered the K CPUs.

i think that is the general consensus of everyone here.

bmwbaxter · May 12, 2012

I was hoping retail chips would have been.

But maybe intel did this for a reason (besides profit), like maybe the new chips had too high a failure rate after the solder process?

Bobnova · May 12, 2012

Robert17 said:
There is no disagreement from me on this. Call me naive. When our company can produce better, safer, more enduring products, we do, cost of production becomes a matter for the customer to determine whether they want or not in the improved product. It's called Best Practices. I guess I shouldn't assume that Intel would engage in such.

Thing is, it works fine at stock. It's fine in practice.
It's us misusing it that causes higher temps, and even then it's fine really.
If it tended to explode and injure people best practices would be rather important. I doubt your company spends an extra 10% to allow 0.1% to push things a little further beyond the warranty.

SF101 · May 12, 2012

I don't think I'd put it that way bob your calling overclockers the 0.1 % but overclocking in general is become pretty common now id say the 0.1% are the people going sub ambient and those people don't seem to be having any issues pushing the chips. its the regular joe who bought a good air cooler or a liquid cooling system experiencing the heat.

And the majority of the people having problems are the average wc/aircooled people.

and out of the people that buy K specific chips id say they are 90% or so of the K sales

I.M.O.G. · May 12, 2012

I get the point bobnova is making.

At the same time its a K CPU specificly for the unlocked multi. It would look better to its target market if temps were better when raising multi and vcore.

I would think Intel would prefer everyone talking about how good the performance is, not "the performance is pretty good against sandy but temps can be trouble". In that sense, I think they made an unintended mistake.

wingman99 · May 12, 2012

The K CPU's are so popular they sold out across the US and they run hot OC.

+1 the k is number 1 in sales for retail CPU

Janus67 · May 12, 2012

wingman99 said:
The K CPU's are so popular they sold out across the US and they run hot OC.

+1 the k is number 1 in sales for retail CPU

I would imagine it would be, especially for early adopters, how many people build their own PCs that aren't enthusiasts in some manner? Sure some, but most will likely be buying the most expensive or 'special-looking-one'.

Robert17 · May 12, 2012

Bobnova said:
Thing is, it works fine at stock. It's fine in practice.
It's us misusing it that causes higher temps, and even then it's fine really.
If it tended to explode and injure people best practices would be rather important. I doubt your company spends an extra 10% to allow 0.1% to push things a little further beyond the warranty.

I understand your point. It works fine. Does just what the spec sheet says. Great. But I tend to think that before release 'K' chips were pushed pretty hard, tested against various solders, TIMs, temps, and cooling solutions. It seems they released a product that has more potential that they could have released with some more thought to performance and market perception.

As to our company: we actually have lost some substantial market share to cheaper products that should be made to the same specs but definitely aren't. A recent sample of a "competitor's" product failed during testing; in the product it was employed within damage, injury and death were a distinct possibility. Our product costs 20% more, not 10% more. So, yeah, considering the tens of millions of dollars involved in market share, to say nothing of the millions in liability, we are taking some hits but sleep well at night.

Frakk · May 12, 2012

Bobnova said:
+1 to this.

Plus, they OC just fine. Intel doesn't care how far they OC, they just want the extra $XX for the ability to OC at all.

I think what everybody is forgetting is that Intel exists for the benefit of Intel. Not us. Not the end user. Intel will do what is best for Intel.
Given that AMD cannot compete, or even come close, to Intel in any way right now there is absolutely no reason for Intel to spend more money on soldering the chips or using a better TIM.
Leave aside the fact that you want them to, and ask yourself "why would they?".

This, they are a money making machine, not a public service.

They have no reason to improve there products, so why bother? especially if they can make more money by cutting a few corners.

[Smaller DIE + cheaper TIM = more profit]

They have shareholders which they have to pay big dividend and bonuses

Archer0915 · May 13, 2012

Well monitoring says I am close to 100º @ 4.6 but the Heat pipes are cool. This makes my head hurt. Could we have bad sensors or pathetic heat transfer?

MattNo5ss · May 14, 2012

High temp measurement doesn't mean high heat output.

MattNo5ss said:
Heat is energy, temperature (F, C, K) isn't a direct measurement of energy, Joules and Watts (Joules/second) measure heat/energy. Temperature is just a number that relates to average molecular motion.

I'm just saying that higher temperature doesn't necessarily mean more heat.

MattNo5ss said:
I'm not a guru at thermodynamics by any stretch.... I know a little about a lot and a lot about a nothing

Typically, as energy increases, molecular motion increases. However, the rate at which increasing energy increases molecular motion will determine how high temps will get and how fast they will get there.

Here are four theoretical situations:

High wattage and slow molecular motion = high heat and low temps

High wattage and fast molecular motion = high heat and high temps

Low wattage and fast molecular motion = low heat and high temps

Low wattage and slow molecular motion = low heat and low temps

I believe Ivy falls into the third situation.

Archer0915 · May 14, 2012

MattNo5ss said:
High temp measurement doesn't mean high heat output.

Oh I understand this but my point that I did not make was perhaps we have reached a point where pumping cold in will be more effective than getting the heat out.

MattNo5ss · May 14, 2012

Based on the sub-zero benching results, pumping cold in definitely helps more on Ivy than it did on Sandy

White_Pawn · May 14, 2012

Archer0915 said:
Oh I understand this but my point that I did not make was perhaps we have reached a point where pumping cold in will be more effective than getting the heat out.

based on the chinese report. Reseating the ihs was enough to make the cpu run 15-20 degrees Celsius cooler at 4.6ghz+ and definitely helped with the overclocking. They also reported that it helped them use lower voltages as well. I am sure with a reseating ihs plus water or naked die + storm rev2 (or similar) will yield 5ghz+ with very acceptable temperatures.

Additionally, as per the cold comment, i've seen fairly high CBB and CB, but it does seem to scale well.

GoD_tattoo · May 14, 2012

Up on Engadget this morning. Well sort of. The page says overclockers.net, yet the source is overclockers.com. Damn Engadget. Even the pictures are from here...

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/14/intel-ivy-bridge-thermal-paste/

Archer0915 · May 14, 2012

When I see some other people here who bought their CUP delid and get some results I may do the same but until then I will deal with it.

Honestly I feel that a few hundred MHz is worth the sacrifice for the technology.

At the moment I am messing with the voltages to see where I can cut some heat.

I can not say I am impressed with the clock-ability/heat of the CPU but I also can not say I am unsatisfied with the package as a whole.

I.M.O.G. · May 14, 2012

Archer, be careful what you watch for when people delid. Some results going both ways good and bad, depending on how the cooler attaches and other factors when delidding. Doing it, and doing it right are different things. It seems like lately people are getting the best results by replacing the TIM then replacing the IHS - I imagine thats mainly a contact thing with the die/cooler.

GoD_tattoo said:
Up on Engadget this morning. Well sort of. The page says overclockers.net, yet the source is overclockers.com. Damn Engadget. Even the pictures are from here...

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/14/intel-ivy-bridge-thermal-paste/

Thanks, they fixed that for us.

FRONTPAGE Ivy Bridge Temperatures - It's Gettin' Hot in Here

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