Overclockers

Cathar · 01-28-04, 04:06 PM

There's a full review to follow, but Phaestus @ Procooling has posted some preliminary results here:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...39&postcount=8

Test CPU load was a T'Bred B @ 2200MHz/1.81v running BurnK7. Hotter CPU's will yield larger differences.

Full review, along with the documented test procedure, which is very good through a lot of good equipment and assistance from BillA and others, should be coming at the Procooling front page in the next week.

Joe Camel · 01-28-04, 04:17 PM

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. Cather, any TEC WB thoughts? (former Dtec WW user)

felinusz · 01-28-04, 04:21 PM

Finally a comparison of the three.

Very interesting info is blatently shown on the graph so far, I'm really looking forward to reading the entire coverage article!

Quote:

posted by pHaestus on the Pro/Forums

Note (a) the excellent performance of Cascade throughout (b) the poor low flow performance of the RBX (c) the crossover point around 2.25GPM where the RBX (essentially a modified whitewater) finally performs better than the standard whitewater. Most users don't have pumps like mine and so relative performance would be Cascade>Whitewater>RBX.

crimedog · 01-28-04, 04:25 PM

glad i have a mag3

Joe Camel · 01-28-04, 04:28 PM

i wonder what plate # was used in the RBX for this test....

nikhsub1 · 01-28-04, 05:46 PM

And my suspicions have been verified. pHaestus is the man, and has possibly the best test bench other than BillA. Now I need to see the original WW vs. the D-Tek.

crimedog · 01-28-04, 06:58 PM

what's the GPH of a "typical" system (with one of these rather restrictive blocks in it).
Like mine for example!

pauldenton · 01-28-04, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by felinusz
Finally a comparison of the three.

Very interesting info is blatently shown on the graph so far, I'm really looking forward to reading the entire coverage article!

Quote:

posted by pHaestus on the Pro/Forums

Note (a) the excellent performance of Cascade throughout (b) the poor low flow performance of the RBX (c) the crossover point around 2.25GPM where the RBX (essentially a modified whitewater) finally performs better than the standard whitewater. Most users don't have pumps like mine and so relative performance would be Cascade>Whitewater>RBX.

Hmm: given that the Whitewater is less restrictive than the Cascade, which aiirc is less restrictive than the RBX?? - then presumably the "true" crossover must be higher still, since a system that'd do 2.25GPM through an RBX would do more than 2.25GPM through a whitewater.....

can't wait for this....

nikhsub1 · 01-28-04, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crimedog
what's the GPH of a "typical" system (with one of these rather restrictive blocks in it).
Like mine for example!

With the mag 3, a heater core and the RBX I would imagine you would be somewhere around 7.5 - 8lpm or 1.8GPH or so.

Cathar · 01-28-04, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crimedog
what's the GPH of a "typical" system (with one of these rather restrictive blocks in it).
Like mine for example!

At 1GPM, the pressure-drop for each block is:

Cascade: 1.02PSI
White Water: 0.67PSI
RBX #1 Nozzle: 0.59PSI

With an Eheim 1048 and a DTek Pro core, I estimate around:

Cascade: 1.15GPM
White Water: 1.3GPM
RBX #1: 1.35GPM

With an Eheim 1250 and DTek Pro core, I estimate around:

Cascade: 1.55GPM
White Water: 1.75GPM
RBX #1: 1.83GPM

With a Mag 3 and a DTek Pro core, I estimate around:

Cascade: 1.75GPM
White Water: 2.0GPM
RBX #1: 2.1GPM

Cathar · 01-28-04, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikhsub1

With the mag 3, a heater core and the RBX I would imagine you would be somewhere around 7.5 - 8lpm or 1.8GPH or so.

You had the LPM right. 8LPM = 2.11GPM

1 (US) GPM = 3.785LPM

Voodoo Rufus · 01-28-04, 07:54 PM

Hmm, they all have nice results, as expected.

Nice to see performance graphs of them finally.

Biglipzits · 01-28-04, 08:36 PM

Wow cathar i would neer have thought that the cascade and WW would be more restrictive than the RBX.. So is it really just the thin design in the block that makes it require more GPH to perform as well as a WW? And was there any difference between your WW and Dteks own now?? When you said the cascade was 1 degree cooler than the WW was it your own or Dteks and if your WW performs better what really is the reason for that??? I always had confidence in the WW over the RBX and these results prove that i made the right choice. cathar your the man

squeakygeek · 01-28-04, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biglipzits
Wow cathar i would neer have thought that the cascade and WW would be more restrictive than the RBX.. So is it really just the thin design in the block that makes it require more GPH to perform as well as a WW? And was there any difference between your WW and Dteks own now?? When you said the cascade was 1 degree cooler than the WW was it your own or Dteks and if your WW performs better what really is the reason for that??? I always had confidence in the WW over the RBX and these results prove that i made the right choice. cathar your the man

The cascade and whitewater ARE more restrictive than the RBX:

Quote:

At 1GPM, the pressure-drop for each block is:

Cascade: 1.02PSI
White Water: 0.67PSI
RBX #1 Nozzle: 0.59PSI

With an Eheim 1048 and a DTek Pro core, I estimate around:

Cascade: 1.15GPM
White Water: 1.3GPM
RBX #1: 1.35GPM

With an Eheim 1250 and DTek Pro core, I estimate around:

Cascade: 1.55GPM
White Water: 1.75GPM
RBX #1: 1.83GPM

With a Mag 3 and a DTek Pro core, I estimate around:

Cascade: 1.75GPM
White Water: 2.0GPM
RBX #1: 2.1GPM

and welcome to the forums!

johan851 · 01-28-04, 09:15 PM

Looks interesting. Nice to have a good performance review on those blocks! Cathar, the flow restriction stuff for the RBX you provided are using nozzle #1 - does that mean the review is using nozzle #1 as well? Also, will the full review have different RBX nozzles?

pauldenton · 01-28-04, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar

With a Mag 3 and a DTek Pro core, I estimate around:

Cascade: 1.75GPM
White Water: 2.0GPM
RBX #1: 2.1GPM

so my previous guess about the RBX was wrong then - looking at the points on the graph it looks as if that Mag 3 might be about the crossover (esp as presumably the procore would be slightly better at 2.1GPM than 2GPM)

wonder what kind of flow an MCP600 + pro core would give?

calvin · 01-28-04, 09:48 PM

Without identifying nozzle used on RBX the data loses relevance. Also I have to question why only a single rbx curve given the range of nozzle options available with this block? This aspect by itself can call objectivity into question.

In no way defending RBX or suggesting something amiss in the data or intent of the investigator. Just that these results as presented raise additional questions. Perhaps the full review addresses all these points in which case these comments can be taken as premature.

The fact BurnK7 employed is a good sign though, so will wait with interest on full review.

nikhsub1 · 01-28-04, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar

You had the LPM right. 8LPM = 2.11GPM

1 (US) GPM = 3.785LPM

ha! even for a yank I know my lpm's better than my GPM's!

Cathar · 01-28-04, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan851
Cathar, the flow restriction stuff for the RBX you provided are using nozzle #1 - does that mean the review is using nozzle #1 as well? Also, will the full review have different RBX nozzles?

I don't know.

Quote:

Originally posted by pauldenton

so my previous guess about the RBX was wrong then - looking at the points on the graph it looks as if that Mag 3 might be about the crossover (esp as presumably the procore would be slightly better at 2.1GPM than 2GPM)

Yep, a Mag3 would give about the same performance between the White Water and RBX, so long as there were no additional blocks in the system.

Quote:

Originally posted by pauldenton
wonder what kind of flow an MCP600 + pro core would give?

I estimate:

Cascade: 1.6GPM
White Water: 1.75GPM
RBX #1: 1.8GPM

pauldenton · 01-28-04, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by calvin
Without identifying nozzle used on RBX the data loses relevance. Also I have to question why only a single rbx curve given the range of nozzle options available with this block? This aspect by itself can call objectivity into question.

In no way defending RBX or suggesting something amiss in the data or intent of the investigator. Just that these results as presented raise additional questions. Perhaps the full review addresses all these points in which case these comments can be taken as premature.

The fact BurnK7 employed is a good sign though, so will wait with interest on full review.

iirc #1 is the nozzle that comes as standard? some stores (at least in here in the UK) don't even stock the others....

pauldenton · 01-28-04, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar

I estimate:

Cascade: 1.6GPM
White Water: 1.75GPM
RBX #1: 1.8GPM

hmm - either these of the 1250 one must be out...

Quote:

With an Eheim 1250 and DTek Pro core, I estimate around:

Cascade: 1.55GPM
White Water: 1.75GPM
RBX #1: 1.83GPM

Cathar · 01-28-04, 10:14 PM

...and as a further indication of how high-head pumps could really care less about the block's restrictiveness (within reason):

Iwaki MD20-RZ (US spec 60Hz) + DTek Pro Core.

Cascade: 2.35GPM
White Water: 2.56GPM
RBX #1: 2.61GPM

Cathar · 01-28-04, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pauldenton

hmm - either these of the 1250 one must be out...

The 1250 + Cascade would be more like 1.50GPM upon reviewing the curves. The rest of the data points look to be fairly good. Trying to maintain consistency between GPM and the LPM on the graphs I'm looking at, and expressing them to the closest 0.05GPM.

Take my values as ±0.1GPM in any event.

vonkaar · 01-28-04, 10:29 PM

Beautiful... 'finally' is all I'm thinking at the review... finally a 'trusted' source compares the 'top' blocks. Awesome.

pauldenton · 01-28-04, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar

The 1250 + Cascade would be more like 1.50GPM upon reviewing the curves. The rest of the data points look to be fairly good. Trying to maintain consistency between GPM and the LPM on the graphs I'm looking at, and expressing them to the closest 0.05GPM.

Take my values as ±0.1GPM in any event.

and the whitewater? (getting a cascade not being an option atm...)
why do i always leave things too late

)

Home-Chicken · 01-29-04, 01:40 AM

DOH! Is my cascade being underpowered by my Danner Mag 2?

Cathar · 01-29-04, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Home-Chicken
DOH! Is my cascade being underpowered by my Danner Mag 2?

Hmmm. Predict around 1.35GPM with the Cascade, Mag2 and a heater-core.

Looking a Pheastus' graph, that puts the Cascade still ahead or equal to either the RBX or White Water, no matter what pump you stick on them. Factoring in the extra pump heat to push those blocks to perform at their best, and the Cascade would still be in front.

xsmid4 · 01-29-04, 06:25 AM

what kind of flow you estimate with Eheim 1046?

Cathar · 01-29-04, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xsmid4
what kind of flow you estimate with Eheim 1046?

Using a low-restriction radiator (DTek Pro), roughly:

Cascade: 0.9GPM
White Water: 1.0GPM
RBX #1: 1.05GPM

DayUSeX · 01-29-04, 09:31 AM

wow that was probaly one of the most usefull reviews ever, how cool. ALl the "high" end blocks dueling it out, though i still love my maze 4 xeons.

STill good to see a clear graph.

01-28-04, 04:17 PM	#2
Joe Camel Senior Camel Kicker Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ---> NEW HOUSE 7/17/09 !! <---	THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PS. Cather, any TEC WB thoughts? (former Dtec WW user) __________________ -->> Help US fight: CANCER, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's & MORE with YOUR computer <<-- Joe Camel is FOLDing for Team 32 with 100+ GHz! R.I.P pete_scout I wish we could have FOLDed a cure, for you. HEAT "So you see, it's not at all pointless, you just have to look for a different point" ... hafa 5/17/04 6800 EX Conroe @ 4740 MHz (395 x 12) - - Dry-Ice in The Camel Pipe - - X1900 CrossFire @ 846/945 - - MachII Slave, D-Ice Master - - 2x gig Corsair XMS 6400 CAS3 @ 494 MHz 4-4-3-1 - - ASUS P5W-DH - - 700w "Mr Zippy" PSU Last edited by Joe Camel; 01-28-04 at 04:23 PM.

01-28-04, 04:25 PM	#4
crimedog Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Orlando	glad i have a mag3 __________________ 930 & P5WD2 (vcore + droop, mch vdd, ddr2 vdd) 7900gto 720/1680 2x300gb samsung spinpoint sata2 in raid0 I love to volt mod i'm packing heat

01-28-04, 04:28 PM	#5
Joe Camel Senior Camel Kicker Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ---> NEW HOUSE 7/17/09 !! <---	i wonder what plate # was used in the RBX for this test.... __________________ -->> Help US fight: CANCER, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's & MORE with YOUR computer <<-- Joe Camel is FOLDing for Team 32 with 100+ GHz! R.I.P pete_scout I wish we could have FOLDed a cure, for you. HEAT "So you see, it's not at all pointless, you just have to look for a different point" ... hafa 5/17/04 6800 EX Conroe @ 4740 MHz (395 x 12) - - Dry-Ice in The Camel Pipe - - X1900 CrossFire @ 846/945 - - MachII Slave, D-Ice Master - - 2x gig Corsair XMS 6400 CAS3 @ 494 MHz 4-4-3-1 - - ASUS P5W-DH - - 700w "Mr Zippy" PSU

01-28-04, 05:46 PM	#6
nikhsub1 Mostly Useless Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Los Angeles	And my suspicions have been verified. pHaestus is the man, and has possibly the best test bench other than BillA. Now I need to see the original WW vs. the D-Tek. __________________ :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-: Q6600 @ 3.6Ghz / Asus Maximum Forumula X38 / 4GB Crucial Ballistix 8500 / X1950XTX PC Power & Cooling 750W Silencer Mountain Mods U2-UFO Cube Storm G5 --> MCW30 --> MCW60 --> PA 120.3 --> PA 160.1 --> 2x DDC Ultras in Series --> Custom Clear Res XP 64 FTW "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." :-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:'``':-.,_,.-:

01-28-04, 06:58 PM	#7
crimedog Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Orlando	what's the GPH of a "typical" system (with one of these rather restrictive blocks in it). Like mine for example! __________________ 930 & P5WD2 (vcore + droop, mch vdd, ddr2 vdd) 7900gto 720/1680 2x300gb samsung spinpoint sata2 in raid0 I love to volt mod i'm packing heat

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01-28-04, 04:06 PM	#1
Cathar Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia	White Water vs RBX vs Cascade - prelim results @ Procooling There's a full review to follow, but Phaestus @ Procooling has posted some preliminary results here: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...39&postcount=8 Test CPU load was a T'Bred B @ 2200MHz/1.81v running BurnK7. Hotter CPU's will yield larger differences. Full review, along with the documented test procedure, which is very good through a lot of good equipment and assistance from BillA and others, should be coming at the Procooling front page in the next week.

01-28-04, 07:54 PM	#12
Voodoo Rufus Browncoat Moderator Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Evanston, WY	Hmm, they all have nice results, as expected. Nice to see performance graphs of them finally. __________________ "I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar!" Serious Gamers Halo Custom Edition Green Leaves!

01-28-04, 08:36 PM	#13
Biglipzits New Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Lucia	Wow cathar i would neer have thought that the cascade and WW would be more restrictive than the RBX.. So is it really just the thin design in the block that makes it require more GPH to perform as well as a WW? And was there any difference between your WW and Dteks own now?? When you said the cascade was 1 degree cooler than the WW was it your own or Dteks and if your WW performs better what really is the reason for that??? I always had confidence in the WW over the RBX and these results prove that i made the right choice. cathar your the man

01-28-04, 09:15 PM	#15
johan851 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Seattle, WA	Looks interesting. Nice to have a good performance review on those blocks! Cathar, the flow restriction stuff for the RBX you provided are using nozzle #1 - does that mean the review is using nozzle #1 as well? Also, will the full review have different RBX nozzles? __________________ Asus P5K-Deluxe WiFi \| Intel Q9400 \| 2x2GB GSkill PC6400 \| Radeon HD 4670 60GB OCZ Agility \| 2x 1.5TB Samsung F2 in RAID 1 AV-710 --> Zhaolu DAC 1.3 --> Custom M^3 --> Custom LM3875 ChipAmp --> Modula MTs Dual Dell 2007WFP's \| Watercooled

01-28-04, 09:48 PM	#17
calvin Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada	Without identifying nozzle used on RBX the data loses relevance. Also I have to question why only a single rbx curve given the range of nozzle options available with this block? This aspect by itself can call objectivity into question. In no way defending RBX or suggesting something amiss in the data or intent of the investigator. Just that these results as presented raise additional questions. Perhaps the full review addresses all these points in which case these comments can be taken as premature. The fact BurnK7 employed is a good sign though, so will wait with interest on full review. __________________ ASUS A8N32SLI Deluxe Opteron 170@3.0 ghz, wc'd Memory: Shikatronics 8800GTS, wc'd Case: Chenbro SR107 Rad: Thermochill PA120.3

01-28-04, 10:14 PM	#22
Cathar Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia	...and as a further indication of how high-head pumps could really care less about the block's restrictiveness (within reason): Iwaki MD20-RZ (US spec 60Hz) + DTek Pro Core. Cascade: 2.35GPM White Water: 2.56GPM RBX #1: 2.61GPM

01-28-04, 10:29 PM	#24
vonkaar Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Flower Mound, TX	Beautiful... 'finally' is all I'm thinking at the review... finally a 'trusted' source compares the 'top' blocks. Awesome. __________________ -->>Ranked #1 of all folders in the world!!<<-- named Vonkaar... I7 920 D0 @ 4.2Ghz // MSI X58 Pro-E // Sapphire 5870 // 6x Seagates in RAID0 // Microsoft Keyboard Overclocked to 18 WPM (STOCK COOLING!) Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittamj

01-29-04, 01:40 AM	#26
Home-Chicken Registered Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA	DOH! Is my cascade being underpowered by my Danner Mag 2?

01-29-04, 06:25 AM	#28
xsmid4 Registered Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Brno, Czech Rep.	what kind of flow you estimate with Eheim 1046?

01-29-04, 09:31 AM	#30
DayUSeX Member Join Date: Aug 2003	wow that was probaly one of the most usefull reviews ever, how cool. ALl the "high" end blocks dueling it out, though i still love my maze 4 xeons. STill good to see a clear graph. __________________ 2x Xeons HT 3.23ghz load 29C 4gb Dual Channel CAS 1.5!!!! BH5 2x 80gb WD 8mb HD 2x 250gb WD 8MB Plextor 42x CDRW NEC 4x DVD+-R DL NV40 Quadro Comming Soon!! Audigy 2 ZS