hey ryan have you asked about the 14ga inductor at PE on the forums? there are lots of people including the PE staff that might be more able to help you at this point.... i say that cause they may point you torwards say either the 16ga or the 12ga .... baffle step has to do with how you mont the drivers wiether they are flush monted or surface monted... how they are monted changes the sound of the speaker so you would use baffle step help the sound(sorta speak)... at the time when i was DIY digging some did not consider vifa that good till the put out the PL mid/woffer.. really nice from what people said from using them in projects...
*note*
i have been DIY for 3+ years but took a break from all the reading and what not for a while so if im wrong, please correct me ..... seeing your post ryan only makes me want to go back and reread eveything i have found....i hate giving people wrong info.
baffle step has to do with how you mont the drivers wiether they are flush monted or surface monted... how they are monted changes the sound of the speaker so you would use baffle step help the sound(sorta speak)..
I just did a quick search on PE for the term baffle step heres what I got.
"Baffle Step: An increase in the high frequency output of a loudspeaker as the radiation pattern changes from 4-pi space to 2-pi space. At wavelengths shorter than half the width of a baffle, the waves "bounce" off the front baffle and are reinforced due to reduced acoustic impedance. At wavelengths longer than half the baffle width, the waves no longer are reinforced off of the front baffle and radiate in all directions. The result is a 6dB increase (step) in the output above the baffle step frequency.
Baffle Step Compensation: A circuit that is used in a speaker crossover to "compensate" for the increase in output at higher frequencies due to the baffle step. Typically the change in output across the baffle step is 6 dB. Baffle step compensation can be achieved by using a low-pass filter at or near the baffle step frequency to counter the natural rise. However, this will only be successful in speakers that have relatively low crossover points where excessive attenuation above the baffle step is not a problem. Baffle step compensation can also be achieved by using an inductor and resistor in parallel with a second resistor shunting to ground. Resistor values are generally on the order of the nominal impedance of the driver and the inductor is generally in the .5-1.0 mH range. "
I think I remeber someone making a comment about round baffles and that causeing problems with baffle step compensation. But I can sorta understand what they are talking about with the compensaiton circuit but have no clue how to build one for my speakers. I guess I'll have to do a lot more reading up on it
Also as far as I know the midbasses are ment to be mounted without a router reccess into the baffle. The frame is polymer and is molded at an angle. Looking at the diriver I could sink it in a little less than a 1/8". The tweeter will be either mounted flush with the baffle or on top of the enclosure. Once I finally get my hands on it and test a few different things I'll make my final decision.
I'm gonna look into renting a router and using that to make the baffles. If I do that I will proably try to cut a reccess into the baffle for the woofers. Even though it will be a very very small one I can imagine it would help a bit.
My goals for this design arnt too high. I just want a decent set of speakers for my computer. I had a set of Logitechs but I wasnt pleased with there music performance so I thought i'd have ago at designing a set. So far i've been very pleased with the vifa midbasses. They sound very natural with the testing i've done so far. There not quite as clean as my AV 1's but I think there pretty darn close so far.
baffle step has to do with how you mont the drivers wiether they are flush monted or surface monted... how they are monted changes the sound of the speaker so you would use baffle step help the sound(sorta speak)...
Bafflestep deals with the transistion period of the driver radiating from a 2pi to 4pi environment like the article Ryan posted said. That doesnt have to do with wheather you flush or surface mount the drivers (that aids in improving or deceasing diffraction). How you mount the speakers on the enclosure (the orientation) wont change the bafflestep either (unless you change the driver to another surface).
The reason we use baffle step compensation is to make sure that the frequency response of the speaker remains linear as we decrease frequency. If we had an infinite sized baffle, there would be no reason to implement the electrical compensation circuit, as the speakers would be radiating in a 2pi space. So as you can see, the frequency baffle step compensation needs to start is dependent on the height and width of your speakers front baffle. A larger baffle needs to start at a lower frequency than a higher one. Subwoofers dont need bafflestep compensation, because they only play very low frequencies, where the entire range is in a 2pi space (unless you have a REALLLLLY BIG subwoofer )
You can account for bafflestep in a passive crossover design using simply an inductor in parallel with a resistor. This network is placed in series with the midwoofer. So, at low frequencies, the inductor has a low reactance, and passes audio frequencies with not much attenuation. But once you get higher in frequency, the inductor becomes more and more reactive to the point where the majority of the power is going through the resistor. The resistor value sets the amount of bafflestep compensation you want, and the inductor sets the frequency that it starts 'kicking in'
Also, in many cases, baffle step compensation isnt always necessary. First of all, it's gonna drop the efficiency of your midrange driver, so you are going to have to pad the tweeter more to match. Second, if you place the speakers near the walls, the amount of compensation needed will decrease, as you are getting reinforcment from the walls. Few speakers used indoors need the full 6dB compensation, and most speakers that implement bafflestep use more like 3-4dB.
Thanks azzkiller. Thats what I love about this hobby you learn something new everyday . Is there any formula or calculator that would give me the proper values for the resistor and inductor? As it is right now the speaker doesnt have much of a baffle at all so I guess it would be a higher freq baffle step needed? Also would crossing the speakers over at 5000 Hz hurt or help in this situation?
BTW I asked about the inductors on PE tech talk board and heres the response I got from one of the PE guys
Personally, unless there's a good reason not to, I would just use the Janten 18 gauge inductors. They offer better quality than the perfect lay's, at a better price.
If there is some reason that you need a very low DCR or high power handling, then consider stepping up to the 15 gauge Jantzens. But, I would guess that they probably aren't needed for your application.
Thanks azzkiller. Thats what I love about this hobby you learn something new everyday . Is there any formula or calculator that would give me the proper values for the resistor and inductor? As it is right now the speaker doesnt have much of a baffle at all so I guess it would be a higher freq baffle step needed? Also would crossing the speakers over at 5000 Hz hurt or help in this situation?
If your baffle is very small, then if you considerably dropped the crossover frequency, you could build that in to your baffle step. But I doubt the tweeter will go that low, so no, changing the crossover point wont affect the baffle step compensation needed. If you liked the way the speakers sound now, then they might be ok without it, especially if they are up against the wall or in corners.
I agree with the PE guys. For the baffle step inductor (should you choose to do that) it could make a positive difference to use a low dcr coil, but since your crossover frequency is between 2khz and 5khz, it shouldnt be too big of a deal using 18awg inductors for the low and highpass sections. I used 15awg Jansen inductors on my speakers lower woofer (they are a 2.5 way) as they are pretty high power, and a 18awg coil would have too high a dcr for the inductance I need. Your baffle step inductor value would likely be half or even less, so IMO you probably could get away with a 18awg coil. The size of a 15awg coil is quite large too, and you might have problems fitting it into your enclosure.
I guess for now I'm not gonna worry about the baffle step then. I will see how they sound once they are completed and probably try them with some BSC. I'm thinking about rounding MDF on the front and back baffle. I'm gonna try and rent a router saturday and buy some bits. Then I'll recut the baffles. With the router I should be able to get pretty dang close so I shouldnt have to sand too much. I'll post another up date when I got the new baffles done.
Sorry its been so long since I gave and update. I went back to my pervious post and cleaned them up a bit. I deleted some of the images to save on some bandwidth.
Anyways I got the tweeters in today! After messing with them I decided that the MTM was gonna be a bit more of a hassle than I thought. For some reason the tweeters have a grill over the dome and I really didnt want that in between the midbasses. I think it would look really funny. So I think for now I'll spend the extra money on a plate amp for my small subwoofer. I still might try the MTM some time later. I have a TON of left over PVC pipe cause i had to buy a 10' length. But for now I'm just gonna stick with the first TM design.
It took me a while to figure out how to mount them. The mount is a small peice with three holes in it. The middle hole is for the lead wires. Then theres a hole in front of and behind the lead wires.
It took me about 20 minutes to get the tweeters mounted on both speakers. Heres what they look like
So far i've not decided which crossover i like the best. I am compareing a 1st order at 5,000 hz and a 2nd order at 2,300 Hz. I think I like the overall sound of the 2nd order best but the tweeter seems to over power the midrange just slightly. The 1st order crossover sounds too dark. I think asking the midbasses to play up that high is just a little too much. So I think I'm gonna buy parts for another 2nd order crossover and maybe pad the tweeters down 1 dB.
Once I get the right crossover I'm gonna sand and prep the PVC pipe and MDF then cover it with laminate. I know they look REALLY ugly right now but I'll just have to live with it for a while longer .
I got my last PE order made. I padded the tweeters down 1.5 dB and they still seemed a tad bit too loud. So I ordered parts for a 2.5 dB L pad. once it gets here (on thursday) i'll compare the two and make my final desicion. I went ahead and shortened the PVC pipe to 4". I wanted to go sealed instead of ported so I had too make the total volume smaller. The final Q is .63 i believe.
I'm currently waiting on all the crossover parts and the laminate (should get here thrusday). Once that parts arrive I can assemble the other crossover and seal the enclosures. Then I'm gonna sand them down and apply wood filler then re sand. I had very limited space to work with insde the enclsoures. so i used a peice of PVC and hot glued the parts to it.
Anyway I should have the speakers finished next weekend. So look for a new update then .
there really coming along a LOT better than I tought. I compared them to my AV 1's and I was quite supprised. Even though the tweeter is still a bit too bright they are very clean sounding. Obvously they dont have much bass but they are very small speakers. They are still pretty ugly but once i get them laminated I think they will look very good .
I'm also putting together a little post on Flexy rack building. I know its pretty basic stuff but you can build some very nice equipment racks using the flexy style. I'll have to see the red maple laminate in person before I decide what to do with the shelfs on the flexy rack. Its either the red maple or black paint . I'm also thinking of laminateing the Titanic sub. I only have 2' x 10' roll to work with so I dont think i'll have enough to do the flexy and the sub. Everything still a bit up in the air right now but I'm hopeing to get everything done next weekend.
I've just finished the speakers! so this project is DONE!!
Sorry, I'm pretty happy right now. I've been working on this project for about 3 months now and I'm thriled with how it turned out. The speakers sound GREAT. I've done some A/B testing against my AV 1's and they are right up there. They still lack that little extra "life like" sound (compared to the AV 1's) but for the money spent I am very pleased.
I got the PE shipment this afternoon and finished sanding and smoothing out the satilite speakers. It took me about 6 hours of work today just to get them finished. Anyway I got home around 10 PM and worked till 2 AM with the laminate. Tomorrow i'll post a lot more photos of the construction. But for now heres a spoiler pic
Been a while since I checked out this thread. Looks great, man!
I'm curious (just yell at me if this is obvious or you already mentioned it, I don't have the time to read the whole thread ), are you planning on making more of those speakers?
As promised heres a little how to on the wood filler and laminate .
I started off applying wood filler to the front and rear endcaps. I went way overboard cause i wanted it to be very smooth and fill all the gaps. One of the end caps was about 1/8" shorter than the PVC. It took me about 4 coats of wood filler to build it up.
This is after sanding down with medium grit then switching to fine grit sand paper. It seemed to work best to sand from the front to the back. Its hard to explain but if your sanding the rear endcap sand from the the middle towards the back of the endcap. It worked OK to just sand along the encap but it seemed to be more level in my case to sand towards the end cap.
Heres the front endcap attached and ready to sand. Both front endcaps were very close to mathcing the PVC so I only have a very small amount of sanding to do. It only took one coat of wood filler.
Now were ready to apply the laminate. Its very important to get all the dust and particles from sanding off the speaker. The wood filler and MDF both make a TON of dust.
Just cut a length of laminate and leave at least 1" of over hang on the sides. Then line it up and roll the laminate around the speaker and then cut to the proper lenght. Then peel off a bit of the wax paper backing and place the laminate evenly on the bottom. Make sure you start on the bottom so the seem isnt on the top .
Now we have the laminate applyed and were ready to cut off the excess. I used a razor blade and find that it works great. My method is to trim all but about 1/4" off then trim it flushly. I find the best way is just go VERY slow and keep the razor blade at and angle against the wood. It will slice through the laminate with ease once you get the right angle of the blade.
Just finished trimming the front and this is what it looks like. I would like to comment on the order which you apply the laminate. I did the front and back last so they would overlap the sides. There is no way to make a perfect seemless edge but the laminte corner blends in very well. You could apply the front and back first but then you would see the slight edge when looking straight at the speakers.
Got the front on and trimmed off. I like to try and match up the laminate on top but it is really hard to get a match with a round speaker . When trimming the front and back you have to be super careful. Cause the razor is sliding over the laminate on the side. If you dig it in too deep it will cut the laminate on the sides and cause a very ugly corner.
Once its all said and done with the laminate you gotta hook up all the wires and drivers and your good to go. (you can see a very slight overhang of laminte on the back of the speaker. That is now taken care of )
Again here's the finished speaker but from the back.
And finnaly heres from then top.
Now moving on to the titanic subwoofer. I stupidly didn't order enough laminate so the i had to skip laminate on the bottom :/. Its no huge deal but kinda dumb of me . I'll get some more later down the road but for now i'll live with it. Anyway here's the laminating process of the titanic sub. I did a lot of work on the titanic enclosure as well to get it ready for laminate. I used a several coats of wood filler in some spots to clean it up. Then along all the seems I put a small amount on then sanded right off.
Heres all the parts for the sub (minus the plate amp) waiting to be laminated and assembled.
I was really bummed cause i had to butcher the back of the enclosure. I didnt have any laminte left over that was wide enough to go on the back. So I folded the side pieces over (instead of trimming flush) and wrapped their edges around to the back. Then applied a piece over them. It looks OK but not nearly as clean and nice as a full trimmed piece would. The only reason i did this was cause its the back of the sub and you will never see it. Still a bummer though :/.
Heres another close up of the front. You can see the little stands for the satilites. They were really an after thought but seem to work great!
Thats about it for this project. I'm very pleased with how it looks and sounds. I think it really does rival my AV 1's. Still not quite up there but they are close . If i had to do it over I might change to a bigger midbass. But other than that I think my first self designed speaker system turned out great!
I'm still working on the flexy rack post. I'm gonna either paint it black or buy some more textured black laminate. I'm still not 100% sure at this point.
can we say BADASS! holy moses from egypt that is awsome, some of the best laminate i have ever seen, and a damn good job of it! i give 11/10 for this one Ryan!
Thanks guys, I'm just amazed they turned out so well. The laminate is the PE red maple. Its really nice looking. A little more red/orange in real life. They do sound very good with the new network. Obvously they are a lot more for near field. They do lack in the bass department but the sub picks up right there and together they sound awesome. A lot better than any PC speaker set i've heard.
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