Going Green.....

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 19, 2013

I think this is the right place to post this? (Mods move it if need be.)

I have an alternator that can make 65 Amps I was told, and I have 3 batteries. 1 "factory defect" AcDelco car battery and 2 "truck" batteries.
The truck ones are a standard / deep cycle hybrid mix. (They are a "car battery" but can be used like a deep cycle)

I'd like to go off the grid with my sig rig, but I need to know 2 1 thing:

~~How can I regulate the amperage that the alternator produces? I'll be charging 3+ batteries at the same time with it...~~

And how can I power the alternator? I suppose I could hook a belt up to my bike and pedal...

Here's some pics of what I got so far:

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 19, 2013

UPDATE:

It turns out, that most new alternators have voltage regulators in them, so I don't need to regulate the amps anymore! :thup:

I still need to find a way to turn ("power") the alternator...

How about this:
If I use a 5 amp DC motor to "power" the alternator and run the DC motor off the batteries, will the alternator produce enough amps to charge the batteries??

Or would the motor draw as much power as the alternator can produce?

synthetic_fenix · Dec 19, 2013

Using grid power to power a motor to run the alternator really isn't going off the grid, or going green. This just produces a complicated UPS.

Your best bet would be to run the alternator off of a gas engine, but at this point would be nothing more than a low power generator as 65 amps isn't a lot for an alternator and would probably have problems charging those batteries to use that inverter. A lot of newer vehicles have 100 to 120 amp alternators to power everything and that is with out high power amps or inverters.

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 19, 2013

synthetic_fenix said:
Using grid power to power a motor to run the alternator really isn't going off the grid, or going green. This just produces a complicated UPS.

Your best bet would be to run the alternator off of a gas engine, but at this point would be nothing more than a low power generator as 65 amps isn't a lot for an alternator and would probably have problems charging those batteries to use that inverter. A lot of newer vehicles have 100 to 120 amp alternators to power everything and that is with out high power amps or inverters.

Well, that DC motor was to be powered off of the batteries it was going to charge like this:

Batteries --> DC motor powers Alternator --> Charges |
^__________________________________________|

I also have 2 alternators (3 if my dad lets me have another one he has lying around) So I can produce a lot of amps.

I'm trying to figure out if the DC motor will draw more power than the alternators can produce.

The laws of physics won't allow me to make energy out of nothing

(physics class was really cool

)

TiZakit · Dec 19, 2013

Silver_Pharaoh said:
The laws of physics won't allow me to make energy out of nothing (physics class was really cool )

This is exactly what you are describing though.

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 19, 2013

TiZakit said:
This is exactly what you are describing though.

Just thought of that.......
So, I need some external source of energy to power the alternators it seems.

Other than hooking the alternators up to my bike, there must be some other way to turn the alternators fast enough to produce enough current.

Any idea's?

TiZakit · Dec 19, 2013

Trust me when I say I'm not trying to be an ***.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_generation

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/science-questions/question658.htm

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 19, 2013

TiZakit said:
Trust me when I say I'm not trying to be an ***.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_generation

What are you saying? That the alternators are not enough to charge my batteries???

I understand what you are saying. I can't run a motor off the same batteries I'm trying to charge--They will never charge like that. I get it.

I'm still find a way to turn the alternator to charge the batteries. Be it physical energy or not, I need a way to spin the alternator fast enough to produce current.

TiZakit · Dec 19, 2013

Craigslist for a horizontal shaft engine. Or by one from northern tool or something? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200514290_200514290
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-hp-79cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-69733.html

You would need some pullys to run from the alternator to the engine and some sort of frame the mount the whole contraption in.

You would also probably need a clutch, so you can start the engine with out a load on it. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...inibike-parts-accessories+clutches-components

You would need some sort of jack-shaft setup. Engine connected to clutch, clutch on shaft, pully on shaft, pully connected to alternator.

In the end, it would be cheaper to use a cheap generator to power everything. http://www.harborfreight.com/900-peak800-running-watts-2-hp-63cc-gas-generator-60338.html

wagex · Dec 19, 2013

you're gonna be pedaling a bike for a while get a stationary bike pull the rubber off the back wheel and find a belt that will go around the tire and the alternator, you will also need a way to hold the alternator very still and very tight so probably a bracket welded to the bike frame. youd be surprised how much strength it takes to turn an alternator fast enough to produce those 65 amps. for instance you can hear the engine change tone when the thing starts charging from the load its puting on it.

your best bet is going to be to get some solar panels. but either wya your gona need alot more batteries if you plan to take even just the pc off the grid. think you have to go atleast 8 hours a night with no light. or you dont want to be pedaling the whole time your playing or the whole time you arent playing.

TiZakit · Dec 19, 2013

Not sure about alternator circuitry, but would you need to find a way to prevent over charging as well?

wagex · Dec 19, 2013

TiZakit said:
Not sure about alternator circuitry, but would you need to find a way to prevent over charging as well?

depends if its a single wire or has the vreg built in, if its either one of those its fine, if it has a pair of wires going to the ECM then most likely he will neeed to find some way to do excite it or else it shal never charge.

PenguinParlor · Dec 19, 2013

Wind...?. seriously it will most likely end up costing more to do what you suggest than you would probably want to spend. I would say that if it is something you are interested in. I would recommend learning more about it before attempting anything.

wagex · Dec 19, 2013

PenguinParlor said:
Wind...?. seriously it will most likely end up costing more to do what you suggest than you would probably want to spend. I would say that if it is something you are interested in. I would recommend learning more about it before attempting anything.

did you join the forums to post this helpful post?
guys i think we got a most helpful person of the forums award 2014!

TiZakit · Dec 19, 2013

Sounds like a fun project if I had the money/time/energy to spend on it though.

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 19, 2013

TiZakit said:
Craigslist for a horizontal shaft engine. Or by one from northern tool or something? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200514290_200514290
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-hp-79cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-69733.html

You would need some pullys to run from the alternator to the engine and some sort of frame the mount the whole contraption in.

You would also probably need a clutch, so you can start the engine with out a load on it. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...inibike-parts-accessories+clutches-components

You would need some sort of jack-shaft setup. Engine connected to clutch, clutch on shaft, pully on shaft, pully connected to alternator.

In the end, it would be cheaper to use a cheap generator to power everything. http://www.harborfreight.com/900-peak800-running-watts-2-hp-63cc-gas-generator-60338.html

I have all of those in my dad's workshop. (He run's his own small engine shop)

wagex said:
you're gonna be pedaling a bike for a while get a stationary bike pull the rubber off the back wheel and find a belt that will go around the tire and the alternator, you will also need a way to hold the alternator very still and very tight so probably a bracket welded to the bike frame. youd be surprised how much strength it takes to turn an alternator fast enough to produce those 65 amps. for instance you can hear the engine change tone when the thing starts charging from the load its puting on it.

your best bet is going to be to get some solar panels. but either wya your gona need alot more batteries if you plan to take even just the pc off the grid. think you have to go atleast 8 hours a night with no light. or you dont want to be pedaling the whole time your playing or the whole time you arent playing.

Yeah, I'd need a bike with lots of gears to pedal it fast enough....

TiZakit said:
Not sure about alternator circuitry, but would you need to find a way to prevent over charging as well?

wagex said:
depends if its a single wire or has the vreg built in, if its either one of those its fine, if it has a pair of wires going to the ECM then most likely he will neeed to find some way to do excite it or else it shal never charge.

This alternator came off a Rigmaster APU, used for all sorts of things on big rigs.... "IC Regulator built in" it says, I'd also monitor the voltage during charging as well.

PenguinParlor said:
Wind...?. seriously it will most likely end up costing more to do what you suggest than you would probably want to spend. I would say that if it is something you are interested in. I would recommend learning more about it before attempting anything.

Not a chance. Not even once.
Not enough wind to even break even around here.

NiHaoMike · Dec 19, 2013

Up north, you can do CHP. Which is basically a generator that runs from heating fuel, and the heat it gives off is put to good use. Just get a water cooled engine, mount a generator to it, and pipe the cooling water through a radiator located indoors. For better efficiency, use the exhaust gas to also heat the cooling water.

BTW, a small car engine and an induction motor (working as a generator) works nicely for that. Gear it so that the engine runs at about 1000 RPM.

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 19, 2013

NiHaoMike said:
Up north, you can do CHP. Which is basically a generator that runs from heating fuel, and the heat it gives off is put to good use. Just get a water cooled engine, mount a generator to it, and pipe the cooling water through a radiator located indoors. For better efficiency, use the exhaust gas to also heat the cooling water.

BTW, a small car engine and an induction motor (working as a generator) works nicely for that. Gear it so that the engine runs at about 1000 RPM.

Hmmmmmmm. Like a Stirling Engine?

I have plans (and tried) to build one--it failed, too many air leaks.
I have plans and supplies for a 3rd attempt at building a Lamina Flow engine....

That was the original idea--build a Stirling to power the alternator!
I'm just not sure if the Stirling or Lamina Flow engine can spin it fast enough, they were not meant to power any loads right?

MechE · Dec 19, 2013

The motor will draw more power than the alts will produce, first law I think. I tried to build something like that when I was a freshman in high school. Learned a bit about the various laws of conservation. I like the idea of solar panels myself. The laminar engine is awesome too, I remember you chatting about that earlier in a different post. If I wasn't busy with school and had a shop I would definitely give that a shot. Sounds like you like to build stuff, I say go for it. Best way to learn is hands on and by making your own mistakes. Not the quickest way though...

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 19, 2013

MechE said:
The motor will draw more power than the alts will produce, first law I think. I tried to build something like that when I was a freshman in high school. Learned a bit about the various laws of conservation. I like the idea of solar panels myself. The laminar engine is awesome too, I remember you chatting about that earlier in a different post. If I wasn't busy with school and had a shop I would definitely give that a shot. Sounds like you like to build stuff, I say go for it. Best way to learn is hands on and by making your own mistakes. Not the quickest way though...

Wait, didn't I promise you some pic about Lamina engines or something?

Sorry if I did, things did not work out so I didn't bother taking pics, I just wanted to get it running...

Yeah, I love to build stuff, it's fun and teaches you more than reading about it. :thup:

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