Phenom II X6 1100T in an Asus M3N-HT Deluxe

Kegs0540 said:

So what if my voltage appears to be at the max, but temps are well below the 55c mark even at full load?

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I don't believe the voltage is at a max. Your getting shut downs under TDP?

I'd be a failure to say more OC requires more voltage. You apply more voltage the system shuts down. Not restarts.

Your at the limits it seems for this particular set up....

SOooo, we'll say it's good for about 4ghz (equive to a 5ghz octa core) and call it a day.

And then at this point encourage you to break hardware (at your own risk) and push for a maximum Cpu-z and see what's the biggest number you can hit from what you've learnt! Hint! when submitting, hit the about tab in cpu-z, then validation tab, bottom right, new window pops up and there's a tab to save validation file. This prevents the browser from opening and submitting automatically which will create a crash at super high speeds. In order to submit the validation file, go here. http://valid.canardpc.com/

And you can even run the Cpu with cores shut down. Perhaps it'll OC further using less power requests from the VRMs and PSU?

I'm thinking I have maxed out the potential for my current motherboard. Do I go with the crosshair or the sabertooth?

ShrimpBrime said:

I don't believe the voltage is at a max. Your getting shut downs under TDP?

I'd be a failure to say more OC requires more voltage. You apply more voltage the system shuts down. Not restarts.

Your at the limits it seems for this particular set up....

SOooo, we'll say it's good for about 4ghz (equive to a 5ghz octa core) and call it a day.

And then at this point encourage you to break hardware (at your own risk) and push for a maximum Cpu-z and see what's the biggest number you can hit from what you've learnt! Hint! when submitting, hit the about tab in cpu-z, then validation tab, bottom right, new window pops up and there's a tab to save validation file. This prevents the browser from opening and submitting automatically which will create a crash at super high speeds. In order to submit the validation file, go here. http://valid.canardpc.com/

And you can even run the Cpu with cores shut down. Perhaps it'll OC further using less power requests from the VRMs and PSU?

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I'm not getting shutdowns anymore at my current settings.

Kegs0540 said:

I'm thinking I have maxed out the potential for my current motherboard. Do I go with the crosshair or the sabertooth?

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Well my Antec 850w and 1000w Continous Power series have been around a few years now. Both monsters, I've fan modded the 1000 watter purely for benchmarking with LN2 while trying to pump 2.0v into FX cores for ultimate overclocks.

If the system shut down with that particular power supply, I'd pull it from use immediately because I'm not going to hit that big 7ghz mark I'm looking for

My brother had the Crosshair and I had a Sabo Rev 1.0 - you want Sabo rev 2.0 or Crosshair. I personally like my brother's motherboard better.

Kegs0540 said:

I'm thinking I have maxed out the potential for my current motherboard. Do I go with the crosshair or the sabertooth?

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Right now the Thubans are over 2.5 years old. Most have come and long gone here in the AMD cpu forum section. Oh we see some trickle in off and on again. I used to keep sort of a running log of what the 1090T and 1100Ts were doing at least from the segment we saw in here.

If I remember correctly the majority of users got 3.8/3.9Ghz pretty readily with those two top end Thubans. Then a lot hit the 4.0Ghz again pretty readily. Over 4.0Ghz was a crapshoot in general and those that were seen in here to bust over 4.2Ghz were counted likely on one hand or maybe use part of the fingers on the other hand also.

So a new motherboard and DDR3 Ram for maybe a 100Mhz if you are really lucky and don't own a crap cpu...well it would not make good sense to me. YMMV.
RGone...

So I was just wondering if anybody has any idea or experience on what the "safe" high end of the following setting are.

NF 200 Chip Voltage
1.2V HT Voltage(Im guessing this one is 1.2v?)
NB Chip Voltage

Would any of these help me get more performance out of my setup?

Any input would be appreciated.

You really don't need to adjust any of those, the NF 200 is the onboard video chip and the other two are fine at your clock.

If your still running the same thing as the last screen shot you took which happens to be on my desktop.... The HT and NB are both under 2000mhz and would run as such on stock voltage all day.

ShrimpBrime said:

If your still running the same as the last screen shot you took which happens to be on my desktop.... The HT and NB are both under 2000mhz and would run as such on stock voltage all day.

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Where do you think I'd have to raise the voltage to if i wanted to push my CPU a bit more?

If it were me I would leave the Cpu where it is and work on raising the Nb Freq. This will lead to a more efficient overclock. I would rather have it at 4.1 with the Nb Freq at around 2600 then have it at 4.2 with the Nb Freq at 2k.

Mandrake4565 said:

If it were me I would leave the Cpu where it is and work on raising the Nb Freq. This will lead to a more efficient overclock. I would rather have it at 4.1 with the Nb Freq at around 2600 then have it at 4.2 with the Nb Freq at 2k.

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I agree here, although I had this uncanny want for 3ghz NB and HT links, not All processors can do it, but most of the Phenom II's I've clocked up could do it including the 940BE on DDR2..... The HT always seemed to be the biggest struggle past 3ghz.

Never go over 1.3v HT unless chilling (imo)

No need for more than 1.25v NB core and 1.45v CPU/NB voltage.

ShrimpBrime said:

I agree here, although I had this uncanny want for 3ghz NB and HT links, not All processors can do it, but most of the Phenom II's I've clocked up could do it including the 940BE on DDR2..... The HT always seemed to be the biggest struggle past 3ghz.

Never go over 1.3v HT unless chilling (imo)

No need for more than 1.25v NB core and 1.45v CPU/NB voltage.

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From what I've seen these Thubans can do up to and sometimes over 3k, I would just try and push it up as high as you can get it stable. My 960T will do 2800 stable and has been as high as 3100+ non stable.

The HT always seemed to be the biggest struggle past 3ghz

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Just curious Shrimpy, what benefit does raising the Ht that high have I don't recall ever seeing much from my Phenoms/Thubans.

Mandrake4565 said:

Just curious Shrimpy, what benefit does raising the Ht that high have I don't recall ever seeing much from my Phenoms/Thubans.

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Meh I dunno....

Best case scenario, your running a mulitple processor system and high HT links increase performance. If your running multiple GPU system, can also raise performance.

Ok so I thought I understood the NB and HT link. But, I was apparently completely wrong. Where can I read up about it, or can someone educate me. It's starting to confuse the ***** out of me!

The following from AMD themselves...

...since the Thuban series of processors was leaning toward the 'coming' FX processors, the terminology is very much in play for Thubans as well as FX type processors.

What is or can be different is the motheboard itself. Different motherboard brands may call the same setting by 'another' name that they choose. Often older boards running later cpus may not have every setting available either. And lastly the cheaper motherboards may not have every possible feature either in the bios or working well from bios.

I found this Glossary of terms from AMD to be very informative in my dealings with AMD cpus.


Glossary of Terms
HyperTransport™ Reference Clock (HT ref. clk): The base clock for various clock domains on the AMD “Scorpius” platform technology. HT ref. clock is 200MHz by default. CPU, CPU NB, HT Link and Memory clocks are all LINKED to HT ref. clock. HT ref. clock adjustment is a good tool for fine tuning the various clocks to optimal values. The HT ref. clock value itself doesn’t have any impact on performance.

CPU:
Central Processing Unit – the engine of the AMD “Scorpius” platform technology. CPU core clock frequency has the biggest impact on overall performance of the system. It’s the primary target of tuning.

CPU NB:
CPU NorthBridge (should not be confused with NorthBridge chipset, such as the AMD 990FX chipset) – part of the CPU that has its own clock domain and voltage plane. CPU NB clock frequency determines the Memory controller and L3 cache speed. CPU NB has a notable impact on overall system performance.

CPU FID:
CPU Core Clock multiplier. In the case of the FX-8150 CPU, the default, base-level CPU multiplier is x18 (18x200MHz = 3600MHz). CPU Multiplier can be adjusted on the fly with AMD OverDrive™ utility in steps of 0.5x. CPU Multiplier is unlocked on all of the AMD FX-series CPUs.

CPU NB FID:
CPU NB Clock Multiplier. Determines the CPU NB frequency. In the case of the AMD FX-8150 CPU, the default value is x11 (11x200MHz = 2200MHz). CPU NB Multiplier adjustment requires a reboot (it can not be adjusted on the fly). Can be adjusted in steps of x1. Note that CPU NB clock should be 2x Memory clock
or higher (e.g. DDR3-2400 (1200MHz) would require at least 2400MHz CPU NB clock). CPU NB Multiplier is unlocked on all of the AMD FX-series CPUs.

HT Link Multiplier:
This multiplier determines the clock speed of the HT Link. In the case of the AMD FX-8150 CPU, the default value is x13 (13x200MHz = 2600MHz). In most cases a reboot is required for HT Link Multiplier value adjustment. The maximum value of HT Link Multiplier is x13. HT Link Multiplier is unlocked on all of the AMD FX-series CPUs.

CPU VID:
CPU Voltage Identification Digital – a register value that programs the motherboard voltage regulator (VR) to a specific value. In short, the CPU VID determines the CPU Core Voltage level. In the case of the AMD FX-8150BE CPU, the default CPU base clock VID is usually from 1.250V to 1.350V. The Maximum
CPU VID value is 1.550V.
NOTE: VID value may not always equal to the actual voltage level(see “Voltage OFFSET”). VID value can be adjusted on the fly withAMD OverDrive utility.

CPU NB VID:
CPU Voltage Identification Digital – a register value that programs the motherboard voltage regulator (VR) to a specific value. In short, the CPU NB VID determines the CPU NB Core Voltage level. In the case of the AMD FX-8150BE CPU the default CPU NB VID is usually 1.100V. The Maximum CPU NB VID value is 1.550V.
NOTE: VID value may not always equal to the actual voltage level(see “Voltage OFFSET”). VID value can be adjusted on the fly with the AMD OverDrive™ utility.

Glossary of Terms – continued
CPU / CPU NB Voltage OFFSET:
Most AMD “Scorpius” platform technology motherboards have a BIOS option that allows Voltage adjustments beyond the CPU VID Voltage range. This voltage offset is added on top of the VID value. Voltage offset could be negative or positive. Actual voltage level = CPU or CPU NB VID + OFFSET.
Example: VID 1.350V + 0.100V OFFSET = 1.450V actual voltage level.

One of the following options will be available in the BIOS menu (depending on motherboard model):
•
“CPU Voltage” and “CPU NB Voltage” item that includes both VID and OFFSET values merged into one
voltage adjustment item (the range can go to over 2.0V)
•
Separate items for CPU VID and CPU Voltage – here the “CPU Voltage” value starts from the VID value and then adds Offset on top of the VID
•
CPU and CPU NB “OFFSET” items that control the amount of Voltage offset
In all cases the voltage level can be tuned on the fly with AMD OverDrive utility (VID sliders). Please monitor the actual voltage level via the Hardware Monitoring. CPU / CPU NB Voltage OVERRIDE:
Some AMD “Scorpius” platform technology motherboards (such as the ASUS Crosshair 5) have a BIOS option that allows the motherboard to override the CPU VID value requested by the CPU by directly programming the voltage regulator. In this case the CPU Core Voltage and/or CPUNB Voltage will remain at a fixed voltage level. The motherboard BIOS may call this option as “manual voltage mode”. VID Override (or VID Bypass) may allow voltage levels that exceed the range of CPU VID values.
In the case of AMD FX-8150 the VID range enables voltages of up to 1.550V – VID OVERRIDE may allow over 2.0V.
Note: If VID OVERRIDE / Bypass has been activated the CPU VID value adjustments via AMD OverDrive (or
other software) will no longer have any impact on the actual voltage level. The only way to adjust the voltage is
by directly programming the voltage regulator. The motherboard vendor may provide a software for this purpose.

AMD Turbo Core Technology
: AMD Turbo Core Technology and Application Power Management (APM) allow the CPU cores to run above the CPU Base clock value as long as the CPU remains within the thermal and power limits. As an example the AMD FX-8150 CPU has a base clock of 3600MHz but it can run at 3900MHz when up to 8 cores are active and at 4200MHz when up to 4 cores are active assuming it stays within the power and thermal limits. Under very heavy workloads the CPU will return to the base clock – 3600MHz in the case of AMD FX-8150 CPU.

Since APM sets a predefined TDP limit it is usually recommended to disable both AMD Turbo Core Technology and APM features when increasing the CPU frequency and voltage above the default levels. The AMD TurboCore Technology and APM can be disabled via AMD OverDrive utility or from the motherboard BIOS menu.

RGone..

Big thanks to RGone for this information.

The HT ref. clock value itself doesn’t have any impact on performance.

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The problem is that they don't tell you WHY it doesn't increase performance.

The main reason why is because a single processor simply cannot use all the bandwidth available. HT is designed more for multi-P and G system for some real hardcore calculations far beyond that of which the normal user needs.

Although through benchmarking through the years, I can tell you it does impact scores in a positive way when combining BIG OCs Cpu HT and NB all together, HT being the least giving by itself many times needing 500mhz increase or better to actually get scores to show that change.

These FX and Phenom II processors would have been fine with 1000mhz link speeds, no one would have known the difference.

So here's a 960T unlocked to the 5 cores, same one that was run daily on the M5A78L MX PLUS. I pulled off a really nice PCMark04 score with this set up. These Phenom II chips with the PH-EO steppings really humped hard TBH.

Wish I had another Phenom II to de-lid and run daily like this one.



14113 PCMarks on daily clocks. 3300mhz HT/NB

HT Link Multiplier:
This multiplier determines the clock speed of the HT Link. In the case of the AMD FX-8150 CPU, the default value is x13 (13x200MHz = 2600MHz). In most cases a reboot is required for HT Link Multiplier value adjustment. The maximum value of HT Link Multiplier is x13. HT Link Multiplier is unlocked on all of the AMD FX-series CPUs.

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I have found this funny. Because a lot of boards post and run (stock clear cmos) 2000mhz HT link speeds when advertised at 2600mhz. This is a result of the motherboards bios, not the Cpu. And for some strange reason, the Cpu doesn't force bios to run this 2600mhz speed either, it has to be manually input.

The HT ref. clock value itself doesn’t have any impact on performance.

They did not say HT Link Speed but the HT Reference Clock Frequency which is by default on most later AMD cpus; 200. What maybe messing with "Kegs" to some extent is that >> HT ref. clock is 200MHz by default. CPU, CPU NB, HT Link and Memory clocks are all LINKED to HT ref. clock. HT ref. clock adjustment is a good tool for fine tuning the various clocks to optimal values.

Four other pretty important busses do accelerate IF we increase that HT Ref Clock/Frequency above the standard 200 value.

Raising the HT Ref Freq above 200 makes the cpu run faster.

Raising the HT Ref Freq above 200 makes the CPU_NB run faster. Helpful in increasing ram thru-puit tweaking and increasing the speed of the L3 cache at least.

Raising the HT Ref Freq above 200 makes the HT transfer link run faster, governs speeds across the I/O busses or anything else not ram related which is governed by the CPU_NB since ram has direct access to the cpu thru the IMC. It might be possible that increasing HT Transfer Link speed could aid with 2 x Nvidia Titans in SLi or 3 x 780Ti's in SLi (or similar) but the general consensus is that measuring any real gains by increasing the HT Transfer Link speed is pretty difficult.

Raising the HT Ref Freq above 200 makes the ram run faster and is useful when trying to get the ram speed itself adjusted to its' best speed.

So the HT Ref Clock/Freq is by itself not going to be a performance enhancer except by the fact that raising/increasing it will have a direct multiplied effect on 4 other bus speeds.
RGone...

So you are saying....

HT reference clock (in earlier years Bus clock) is linked from Cpu to HT to NB.

The moving from 200 RC to 300 RC makes no performance impact.

The Speed of the actual HW does make an impact. So HT/NB link speeds from 2000mhz to 3000mhz is where performance increase comes in.

Good thing there's a multiplier or we'd be overclocking calculators, which technically we already are any ways.

And if not mistaken, SB and PCI-E are set to 100mhz reference clock locked (or would want them to be) No real performance gain and plenty of data loss.