Need Help Figuring Out How to Quickly Cool A Few Gallons of Warm Water

Hey guys. This is not computer related, although i have been hard pressed to locate the information elsehwere, and i was really hoping some of you tech guru's could help me out. First i will start out with what the system is and how it works:

I have a turbohcharged vehicle which compresses air and heats up the air on its way to the motor. Between the turbocharger and the motor, there is an intercooler very similar to a radiator, except the liquid is cooling the air on its way to the motor. The liquid comes from a tank (typically in the trunk) which houses 3-5 gallons of water. So the water flows from the tank to a pump, to the intercooler, to a heat exhanger, then back to the tank. Usually, i will not be under load(highest temps) for more then 7-10 seconds at a time. The air temps from the turbo can reach 400*f.

my idea:
2 part system.

1.Water to intercooler, out to heat exchanger, to copper coil, to pump, back to intercooler to complete cycle.
2.Reservoir with x amount of gallons of liquid, out to pump, out to secondary heat exchanger, back in to reservoir to complete cycle

With this, the copper core will be sitting in a bath of cool water which will have its separate heat exchanger and pump to keep the coolant cool while the already cooled(but probably warmer) water comes through from the main HE through the copper coil. And back out to the intercooler. This allows an additional level of cooling.


thoughts?

Any ideas?

Have you tried a CAR forum?

There are plenty of air to water intercoolers that you could mount to accomplish this.

ATMINSIDE said:

Have you tried a CAR forum?

There are plenty of air to water intercoolers that you could mount to accomplish this.

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yes i have. but i am looking for more creative/tech ways outside the spectrum of typical car guy knowledge. Finding the intercooler is not a problem as there are tons in million different sizes and shapes, maximizing the system is what i am trying to do. These systems will never be able to cool the water below ambient temp, which is what i would like to do if possible.

You won't get sub-ambient without some sort of refrigeration system or other cooling device.

ATMINSIDE said:

You won't get sub-ambient without some sort of refrigeration system or other cooling device.

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I understand that, thats why i posted in this forum.

The idea i posted above does not utilize any refrigeration or cooling device, simply because i am not familiar with it.

You need more radiators through which the water will circulate after the intercooler and before returning to the reservoir.

You never thought of a simple intercooler and spraying it with water or alcool as petrolheads usually do? The evaporation effect is much more efficient at taking away heat than a radiator.

dostov said:

You need more radiators through which the water will circulate after the intercooler and before returning to the reservoir.

You never thought of a simple intercooler and spraying it with water or alcool as petrolheads usually do? The evaporation effect is much more efficient at taking away heat than a radiator.

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thanks for the info. i have thought about that, although idealy i would like a maintanence free system.

But if i cant manage to figure anything else out, i will likely do this. Some guys run their AC through the unit to cool it down, although my car does not have AC

I don't do performance car things but from what I understand of your situation, you need super quick cooling for a few seconds every once in a while. Right? If so, some sort of evaporative system is what you're looking for. Heat exchangers like radiators are for dissipating large quantities of heat but they need more time. If you want to go the radiator way, you'd have to find space to mount one (or more) and put big fans on it (them).

Do you know what is the temperature of the liquid when it exits the intercooler?

Typically people toss a few pounds of ice cubes into the reservoir.
Anything you mount on the car will likely be heavy enough that you'll pay a price in speed.

Did not read the thread ( I will after supper ) but if you use a bong cooler you can get below ambient temp .

Have you researched using alcohol injection? Far less complicated than redundant cooling systems. Only down side is it will require having fuel control to de-tune a bit. I ran alc for a while when I owned an RX7, worked like a charm, even in AZ heat.

dostov said:

I don't do performance car things but from what I understand of your situation, you need super quick cooling for a few seconds every once in a while. Right? If so, some sort of evaporative system is what you're looking for. Heat exchangers like radiators are for dissipating large quantities of heat but they need more time. If you want to go the radiator way, you'd have to find space to mount one (or more) and put big fans on it (them).

Do you know what is the temperature of the liquid when it exits the intercooler?

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Well, kind of. I need both really, if i am doing spirited driving, i need the system to be able to cool down the water relatively quick, so the intercooler does not heat soak. At the same time, i want to have the coldest liquid possible flowing through my intercooler when i am on the throttle to acheive the lowest possible intake temps. I do not have the data yet for the liquid temps. i do plean on using a heat exhanger between the intercooler and the tank. tank->intercooler->HE->tank.

Bobnova said:

Typically people toss a few pounds of ice cubes into the reservoir.
Anything you mount on the car will likely be heavy enough that you'll pay a price in speed.

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typically yes, and that is very easy. but i am trynig to see if something else can be done. weight is always an issue yes, but i am not racing. this will be a straight up street car.

||Console|| said:

Did not read the thread ( I will after supper ) but if you use a bong cooler you can get below ambient temp .

Click to expand...

i looked into that, and it seems like a great idea. but i wonder how i could set one up in a car....also, i think the cooling will take too long. any way around that?

bamato said:

Have you researched using alcohol injection? Far less complicated than redundant cooling systems. Only down side is it will require having fuel control to de-tune a bit. I ran alc for a while when I owned an RX7, worked like a charm, even in AZ heat.

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thanks for the suggestion, although i am looking for something that i dont have to fill up every now and then. there is also water injection which i'd rather use. but i am trying to see how i can maximize this water to air intercooling system. water injection is a good option tho.

My friends just run ALC injection to fix this problem .

Some PPL use this system for cooling the water in their loop down .

They take a normal camping cooler and then take apart a window ac unit then put the condenser in the cooler filled with glycol and run the loop through that .

NOX !
(actually N2O - "nitro")

Intercooler functions like a radiator and is relative slow.

Water has an enormous capacity, but is "slow" , you are looking to find the equivalent of "flash-freezing" water.. which is not easy to do.
Plus to many intermedium steps, therefore...

Just inject N2O (if possible preferably) after the turbo (or after the intercooler).
If too difficult, inject N2O at the intake.

Use sparingly!
See if you find something in a dragracing forum

Cool Can full of DIce.
Old skool drag racing tip.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/65...&cagpspn=pla&gclid=COL4lJaB6rgCFQ2Z4Aodsl8Anw

If you have a/c on the car, you could do some sort of custom loop to a evap coil in the liquid tank or some sort of a liquid chiller with a pump to recirc and chill the whole tank.
Think chiller system, but run with a belt instead of an electric compressor.

Before everybody gets carried away with convoluted solutions, there is one thing to take into account: those charge air coolers (not intercooler) have a limited range; especially the cheap after market ones. And most factory installations are already on the limit on what can be achieved. -see also Shelby GT
Read up on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_air_cooler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger

Those charge air coolers serve to bring down the air temp in the final stage, preferably knocking off a few degree to get closer to ambient. The air is cooled by the liquid loop.

The multistage submerged copper coil proposed by OP does not work -too much "lag" in the HX-, the best which could be achieved is ambient for the liquid in the res, and thus it would be easier & more efficient to just bolt in an extra bigger radiator into the already existing charge air cooler loop.


Now, to (rapidly) cool the liquid loop which has to pass through the charge air cooler there are a few ways:
-a larger charge air cooler so that there is more time for the liquid to extract heat from air.
Problem: larger = heavier, too large and the "drag/friction" on the air causes it to warm up again, not to mention mechanical issues like stronger pump etc needed.
-larger or more radiators to cool the liquid that leaves the charge air cooler down again to ambient
Problem: larger = heavier, too large and the "drag" slows down the car.
-some convoluted systems like evaps, dry ice injection, etc to supercool or flash cool the liquid loop
Problem: convoluted, heavy & a tendency to be fragile or to have limited operating range

Some working solutions were found in aviation a while ago already - Messerschmitt or FockeWulf. Unfortunately some of these solutions only work at speeds (& altitudes) which you cannot attain on 4 wheels

Therefore, the most to be gained for us mere mortals is from cooling down the air BEFORE it enters the turbo which means using N2O (nitro). It can be also done after the turbo & after the charge air cooler, but it requires MUCH higher pressures. Drilling holes into (soft) alu, bolting in 1/8" compression fittings, running 1/8" pipe and then pushing +3000 psi through tends to go wrong every now and then

But, if you want to be adventurous, you can try to inject something like MW50
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MW_50

Anyways, there is no (easy) solution to cool down the charge air coolers liquid (fast).

PS: my previous expression of NOX is technically wrong, its slang. One should use the correct N2O or Nitrous Oxide or "nitro".
NOx or NO² CAN be used in combustion, but the side effects are that it frequently goes BANG, and is very very bad for your health.

Check out www.snowperformance.net.

thanks guys for the information! sorry for the delay on that.