Advice on new Matrix RAID setup -- 4 x 640GB WD Caviar Blacks -- Good choice?

Revivalist · Sep 23, 2009

I would like to have 1TB of storage with higher read/write performance than a single drive. I would also like to have the data on part of that 1TB be redundant for back up purposes. So here's my idea. . . .

I was thinking of buying four 640GB drives and then setting up four RAID arrays with the 4 x 640GB WD Blacks mentioned above.

In other words, could I do this:

• 20GB RAID 0 (4 x 5GB sliced from each drive) for the system
• 80GB RAID 0 (4 x 20GB sliced from each drive) for programs
• 860GB RAID 0 (4 x 215GB sliced from each drive) workspace for video editing
• 800GB RAID 0+1 (4 x 400GB from each drive) for data

Can anyone confirm if this plan will work? Does the Matrix RAID have a limit on how many arrays can be setup across the same drives?

EarthDog · Sep 23, 2009

Not sure it will work or that I know waht you are talking about!!!

I would do it this way...

1 Raid0 partition for systems/programs/workspace for video edititng
1 Raid1 partition for data/backups.

The size is up to you.

Revivalist · Sep 23, 2009

Why not use RAID 0+1 for the data so that it's backed up by the mirror and the performance is also boosted by the striping?

jgv115 · Sep 23, 2009

I think you can only create two arrays for those set of drives.

If you wanted to make a RAID0 array of 80gb and wanted to fill the rest of the space with a RAID1 array. The bootrom will fill the rest of the space with the RAID1 array.

You could do RAID0 then do a RAID10 array. Or you could do RAID0 then do a RAID5. Then you can partition it down into smaller blocks.

fritzman · Sep 23, 2009

jgv115 said:
I think you can only create two arrays for those set of drives.

If you wanted to make a RAID0 array of 80gb and wanted to fill the rest of the space with a RAID1 array. The bootrom will fill the rest of the space with the RAID1 array.

You could do RAID0 then do a RAID10 array. Or you could do RAID0 then do a RAID5. Then you can partition it down into smaller blocks.

Exactly right and what I was going to suggest...

Matrix tech atm only allows you to have two arrays with a given set of drives...

The Raid0 / Raid10 mix is probably going to work best for you... 4 x drive raid0 for O/S & apps, & raid10 for the rest., breaking each up as you wish with partitions.

Neuromancer · Sep 23, 2009

You can create more than 2 partitions as per OPs post. 4 primaries is max for mechanical drives (not sure if SSD is also limited)

Maybe I am misreading, but it seemed like some of the responses were confusing partitions with arrays, big difference and ANY motherboard with raid support can make multiple partition on a raid array. Matrix only implies mixing arrays on the same drives. (This gets confused alot as well)

GrimX9 · Sep 23, 2009

Dont you need the RE3 drives? The black drives have a "deep recovery cycle"

Some RE3's
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...EPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=RE3&x=0&y=0

fritzman · Sep 23, 2009

GrimX9 said:
Dont you need the RE3 drives? The black drives have a "deep recovery cycle"

Please explain... I'm using 4 x 1Tb Blacks in a raid5 array atm

jason4207 · Sep 23, 2009

I agree w/ fritzman.

I'd just create a RAID0 array and a RAID10 array. Then partition the RAID0 array as needed.

WD recommends their server HDDs (RE3) for RAID, but the Blacks should work fine.

burningforce · Sep 23, 2009

fritzman said:
Please explain... I'm using 4 x 1Tb Blacks in a raid5 array atm

according to western digital, their desktop drives are not suited for enterprise raid setups due to a deep recovery cycle. when there is a hard drive problem, the hard drive tries to correct it by going into this cycle. But it may take long and the raid may drop the hard drive if it takes to long.

apperently there is a western digital tool going around that allows you to lower teh time it takes the hard drive to recover from the error. the tool is called WDTLER
and to get the tool i believe you can email WD for it..

here is the wiki explaining the deep recovery cycle in detail

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-Limited_Error_Recovery

Revivalist · Sep 24, 2009

Thanks for all the great input guys! . . .

Ok, so only two arrays are allowed on the Matrix RAID. Then I think I will set up a RAID 0 array and a RAID 0+1 array.

The RAID 0 array will be 560GB. Then I think I’ll partition this drive with 20GB for Windows, 80GB for programs, and 460GB for workspace.

The RAID 1+0 array will be 2TB (1TB available for usage due to the mirroring). This will be the data drive.

Does that seem like a wise setup? . . .

I have a few remaining questions from the things you guys mentioned. . . .

1. Does it make a difference whether I setup RAID 0+1 or RAID 1+0? Are both supported?

2. When the Caviar black goes into deep cycle and is dropped from the RAID array, does the array have to be setup all over again with all the data being lost? Or does the RAID controller just recognize the drive when it’s available again and simply reinitiate the array again.

The reason I ask is because I have had a few instances on my current system when a drive was dropped from the array for whatever reason, but as soon as it is detected again, the RAID controller simply reinitiates the RAID array on reboot and the array is perfectly fine. I don’t have to do anything and no data is lost. Would it be the same way with the WD Blacks after they go through their deep recovery?

AceNZ · Sep 24, 2009

jason4207 said:
WD recommends their server HDDs (RE3) for RAID, but the Blacks should work fine.

The Blacks work fine with RAID... until they don't. They can stop working immediately after you install them, or maybe never. If a second drive fails during a RAID 5 array rebuild, you could lose your data. Oh, and if they stop working in RAID, they aren't covered under warranty.

Unpredictability can be fun for girls, not so much for disk drives.

fritzman · Sep 24, 2009

Revivalist said:
I have a few remaining questions from the things you guys mentioned. . . .

1. Does it make a difference whether I setup RAID 0+1 or RAID 1+0? Are both supported?

You can do it either way... but if you want to use the fastest part of the drives for your Raid0 (and I presume you do) you must do the Raid0 1st.

sk11vengeance · Sep 24, 2009

I thought Id post my 4x 640 black benchmark results here since this is the newest topic on them. Some numbers seem lower than maybe they should be but I havent seen many comparisons to 4x blacks in raid 0. These are on Intel ICH10R P5Q Deluxe Asus board. Btw these drives are very fast and im glad I bought them to upgrade from my old 2x 74gb raptors. The only downside I can tell you is they are nosier(at idle) than I would like but I guess thats what I get for having 4 of them.

jgv115 · Sep 24, 2009

That's magnificent!

Revivalist · Sep 24, 2009

That pretty much says it all for me!

By the way, do you have the entire 4 x 640GB in RAID 0, or did you use the Matrix RAID to setup a RAID 0 volume and then also a separate volume with some other configuration?

If you used the Matrix RAID, how large is the RAID 0 volume?

Joeteck · Sep 24, 2009

fritzman said:
Exactly right and what I was going to suggest...

Matrix tech atm only allows you to have two arrays with a given set of drives...

The Raid0 / Raid10 mix is probably going to work best for you... 4 x drive raid0 for O/S & apps, & raid10 for the rest., breaking each up as you wish with partitions.

Would be nice to see a step-by-step instructions for that... RAID 10. (WITH PICTURES)

Never done this before with matrix raid... SAS and SCSI, yeah...

jason4207 · Sep 24, 2009

Revivalist said:
Thanks for all the great input guys! . . .

Ok, so only two arrays are allowed on the Matrix RAID. Then I think I will set up a RAID 0 array and a RAID 0+1 array.

The RAID 0 array will be 560GB. Then I think I’ll partition this drive with 20GB for Windows, 80GB for programs, and 460GB for workspace.

The RAID 1+0 array will be 2TB (1TB available for usage due to the mirroring). This will be the data drive.

Does that seem like a wise setup? . . .

I have a few remaining questions from the things you guys mentioned. . . .

1. Does it make a difference whether I setup RAID 0+1 or RAID 1+0? Are both supported?

2. When the Caviar black goes into deep cycle and is dropped from the RAID array, does the array have to be setup all over again with all the data being lost? Or does the RAID controller just recognize the drive when it’s available again and simply reinitiate the array again.

The reason I ask is because I have had a few instances on my current system when a drive was dropped from the array for whatever reason, but as soon as it is detected again, the RAID controller simply reinitiates the RAID array on reboot and the array is perfectly fine. I don’t have to do anything and no data is lost. Would it be the same way with the WD Blacks after they go through their deep recovery?

I think there are some semantics that need to be worked out. When I say RAID10 I'm referring to 4 drives (or 4 slices from 4 different drives) where they are grouped together into 2 pairs. Each pair is in RAID0 (for performance), and the 2 pairs are mirrored (for redundancy). RAID10 or RAID0+1 or RAID1+0 are the same thing as this afaik...someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

So, if you have 4x640GB Blacks...

Go into the Intel RAID BIOS (cntrl-I during boot) and first create a 560GB RAID0 array. Then create a RAID10 array w/ the remainder (2TB).

While installing the OS you can create all your partitions on the RAID0 array...make sure your first partition is OS for the best performance.

fritzman · Sep 24, 2009

Joeteck said:
Would be nice to see a step-by-step instructions for that... RAID 10. (WITH PICTURES)

Never done this before with matrix raid... SAS and SCSI, yeah...

There's a sticky that shows the step-by-step (with pictures) for this process, but does raid0/raid5... all you do differently is select raid10 instead of raid5 for the 2nd part of the drive creation process.

That is a pretty awesome result for the 20Gb drive... well done OP.

Here's some 3 & 4 x drive results done with 1Tb Blacks... http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=6112052&postcount=1847

BTW Jason.. you might want to try trimming everything away from the screenshots a bit. It's a whole lot easier on the eyes.

sk11vengeance · Sep 24, 2009

Revivalist said:
That pretty much says it all for me!

By the way, do you have the entire 4 x 640GB in RAID 0, or did you use the Matrix RAID to setup a RAID 0 volume and then also a separate volume with some other configuration?

If you used the Matrix RAID, how large is the RAID 0 volume?

I have all the space in raid 0. Two volumes, one 20gb for the os, the rest is 2364.6gb raid 0. I tried raid 10 and raid 5 but they are too slow for me. Raid 1 wont work because of the number of drives. Raid 10 and 5 dont use all the available space as well.

Advice on new Matrix RAID setup -- 4 x 640GB WD Caviar Blacks -- Good choice?

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