P10 Power and Rendering

Penguin4x4 · Jul 2, 2002

Maximum PC, July 2002
In current architectures like the GeForce 4, small shader programs can be used to manipulate pixel and vertex data. The simple programs are restricted to just a few instructions, and are limited in overall functionality. The P10 will allow game developers to write much more complex program with unlimited instructions. In fact, the P10 will function more like a CPU. Instead of treating onboard memory as a simple frame buffer like current GPU's, the P10 uses the onboard RAM as an L2 cache more main system memory. Caching schemes intelligently shuttle data between the onboard cache and main system memory, enabling an addressable memory size of 16GB. The upshot is that developers who code for the P10 will be able to implement larger textures and increased complexity in 3D scenes.

There may also be 10-bit per channel RGB rendering, output, frame buffer mode for ARGB (2:10:10:10), DVD playback & output, filtering & scaling and RAMDACs with full gamma correction, along with quad vertex shader array and four vertex shader units, same as the Parhelia's rendering capabilites. Just as long as 3DLabs keeps the speed @~360/750.

Here is their VPU explained:
(BTW: the reason the new Parhelia is so slow is because they packed too many transistors into the core

)

Penguin4x4 · Jul 2, 2002

---X--- · Jul 2, 2002

It all depends on how they deploy it to the gamer market, which means how much $$$ and how much performance is hit to reach acceptable $$$ limits. I don't think many will pay $1000+ for that, at least not many who frequent these boards...

Penguin4x4 · Jul 2, 2002

cackle · Jul 3, 2002

I got the MaximumPC issue today as well. The card looks nice, but I need to read up on the ATI and nVidia cards before I make too many judgements.

CrystalMethod · Jul 3, 2002

I find that's the problem here. Most of you guys are looking at vid card performance in terms of gaming. Load up 3D Studio, make what ever you want, apply lots of texture, then try to pan it 180° . Most likely your vid card is going to be choppy as all hell. Do that with a ATI FireGL 8800, Nvidia Quadro4, or the Parhelia, and I bet it will scroll smoothly. Run 3Dmark with those cards, and your score will be the pits. It's all about what you use your card for.

cackle · Jul 3, 2002

Well, I don't exactly plan on making high end 3d models with any of my cards. Gaming is still my #1 priority. But I agree. If I was an artist, I would have gone with the Parhelia.

Maxvla · Jul 3, 2002

CrystalMethod said:
I find that's the problem here. Most of you guys are looking at vid card performance in terms of gaming. Load up 3D Studio, make what ever you want, apply lots of texture, then try to pan it 180° . Most likely your vid card is going to be choppy as all hell. Do that with a ATI FireGL 8800, Nvidia Quadro4, or the Parhelia, and I bet it will scroll smoothly. Run 3Dmark with those cards, and your score will be the pits. It's all about what you use your card for.

i realize that... but since i don't do any of that... its not important to me. and if you notice, i don't slam these cards you mentioned for their performance cause i know each card has its strengths.

bigfoot · Jul 3, 2002

Well... I'm not totally positive but isn't the Nvidia Quadro4 just derived from the G-Force 4 to begis with...

I do know that all cards have there strengths and weakneses... but wouldn't a card aimed at gameing at least be decent at 3D animation or maybe vice-versa, besides, isn't that what games are in the first place?

futura2001 · Jul 3, 2002

Hell No!
Gaming cards are meant to render on the fly and produce extreme speed so that any mistakes are not visible.
Rendering cards produce the best image but not at the highest speed because they focus on quality and not quantity.
The P10 is taking an entirely different approach with a 100% programmable chip. Now developers can set the card to their apps and not the apps to the card.
Futura

Penguin4x4 · Jul 3, 2002

futura2001 said:
Hell No!
Gaming cards are meant to render on the fly and produce extreme speed so that any mistakes are not visible.
Rendering cards produce the best image but not at the highest speed because they focus on quality and not quantity.
The P10 is taking an entirely different approach with a 100% programmable chip. Now developers can set the card to their apps and not the apps to the card.
Futura

Which is why I want one!!!

bigfoot · Jul 3, 2002

Alright, I got it, but still isn't the Nvidia Quadro4 derived from the G-Force 4, because I've seen hacks to turn GeForce's (any version) into Quadro cards?

Penguin4x4 · Jul 3, 2002

You are correct bigfoot. Its a simple resistor mod.

chemmajik · Jul 4, 2002

Another want to be is all I see, it may look good on paper but if you cannot go down to best buy & buy it, its all just wishes & hopes. I just think Creative is trying to get numbers thrown around to prevent it from loosing sales to the new Radeons soon, because you will be able to go buy them instead of read about them much less GF4's.

Check-X · Jul 4, 2002

P10 WildCat cards are alredy out from 3D Labs, gamers are just waiting for the Creative Labs tweaked version to come to the market... since I double many will spend $1199 USD(For WildCat P10 VP 970) on a video card for a non-professional application

futura2001 · Jul 4, 2002

ummm...
hate to break it to you, but the consumer version is not going to be sold for 1199. Try at most $399. We are talking about cards optimized for 3D apps for $1199, not consumer app cards. So the consumer version won't have all the rendering quality that the pro versions have and thus will be better for gaming.
Futura

---X--- · Jul 4, 2002

chemmajik said:
Another want to be is all I see, it may look good on paper but if you cannot go down to best buy & buy it, its all just wishes & hopes.

Best Buy is evil please don't buy there just go to New Egg, though I understand your point like with the Parhelia, however, don't jump to conclusions in ANY direction, good or bad

Originally posted by futura2001
ummm...
hate to break it to you, but the consumer version is not going to be sold for 1199. Try at most $399. We are talking about cards optimized for 3D apps for $1199, not consumer app cards. So the consumer version won't have all the rendering quality that the pro versions have and thus will be better for gaming.
Futura

Check-X was saying the pro version is out for 1199, and they still have to come out with the tweaked version for us commoners

MospeadasDark · Jul 4, 2002

Tweaked. Striped down. Totally changed. They can't be the same card. You simply cannot make the architecture the same for the two audiences.

Yes, there are those who use Quadros and Radeons for 3D rendering, but for higher quality, only use the real cards.

I doubt they're the same cards. No more the same than the GF4Ti is to the GF4MX.

futura2001 · Jul 5, 2002

Oh, I have no doubts of that, the card is still going to have the exact same processor inside, but will not have all the adding rendering hardware that will be present on the pro versions. It will have different hardware that will optimize it for games. So, expect it to be a very powerful card. It is not going to be stripped down at all, just optimized for something else. 100% programmable remember?
Futura

cackle · Jul 5, 2002

futura2001 said:
It is not going to be stripped down at all, just optimized for something else. 100% programmable remember?
Futura

That's probably right. The pro version has good (stable) hardware for rendering that gets pristine images, while the gamer version will probably have fast (but more unstable) memory and a faster core. And the delay for getting the product out isn't just different parts, it's also drivers and marketing and everything else. The P10 looks promising tho.

P10 Power and Rendering

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