case cooling

jordan · 12-31-00, 01:48 PM

hello :-)
I have a 1Gig athlon unlocked and running at a multiplier of 12 on a abit kt7 board- it has no problems or glitches, but I am running a average temp of 54C when the cpu is used heavily- I have the thermaltake silver orb over it, a 40mm case fan on the rear of the case blowing in almost directly on the cpu cooler, as well as a 40mm fan on the front of the case blowing in, there are also (2) 30mm fans on heatsinks (coolermasters) blowing in the case (there is no intake from them, thay are bolted to the side case door blowing on the video card and basically moving arir around in there)- anyway, how can I cool things down? I am not sure of the best setup for the fans I have in there already. I was thinking of cutting out a hole on the side of the case and putting a 80mm or even a 120mm, but the only place to put it would be on the bottom of the case under the hard drive due to all the cards, wires, etc. Then again, I could remove the two fans I have bolted to the side and place the new fan there, but would a 80/120mm fan blowing straight down on the cpu cooler help or throw the cpu coolers sync off- sorry for the book, thanks in advance for your replies- Jordan

dimmreaper · 12-31-00, 02:00 PM

Buy an Alpha PEP66 and watch you CPU temps drop 5-10C easy.

$.02

sleddog · 12-31-00, 02:23 PM

But cooling the CPU is not that effective if you don't get the hot air out of the case.

Jordan: of all the fans you described I didn't see mention of an exhaust fan. The standard practice is fresh air in at lower front and hot air out at top rear. I just installed two 80mm fans in a case like this and the results were amazing. You need good air flow -- there's no sense in just adding fans blowing into the case. An 80mm (or bigger) exhaust fan near the CPU cooler is very effective.

dadx2mj · 01-01-01, 12:23 AM

Sledog is right you need to get the hot air out not just blow it around. I would try to fit two 80mm fans in the back of case has exhaust fans and one or two if possible 80 mm fans in front for intake. Just remember getting hot air out is more important than bolwing air in.

Metaxas · 01-01-01, 12:57 AM

Quote:

jordan (Dec 31, 2000 01:48 p.m.):
hello :-)
I have a 1Gig athlon unlocked and running at a multiplier of 12 on a abit kt7 board- it has no problems or glitches, but I am running a average temp of 54C when the cpu is used heavily- I have the thermaltake silver orb over it, a 40mm case fan on the rear of the case blowing in almost directly on the cpu cooler, as well as a 40mm fan on the front of the case blowing in, there are also (2) 30mm fans on heatsinks (coolermasters) blowing in the case (there is no intake from them, thay are bolted to the side case door blowing on the video card and basically moving arir around in there)- anyway, how can I cool things down? I am not sure of the best setup for the fans I have in there already. I was thinking of cutting out a hole on the side of the case and putting a 80mm or even a 120mm, but the only place to put it would be on the bottom of the case under the hard drive due to all the cards, wires, etc. Then again, I could remove the two fans I have bolted to the side and place the new fan there, but would a 80/120mm fan blowing straight down on the cpu cooler help or throw the cpu coolers sync off- sorry for the book, thanks in advance for your replies- Jordan

Hmmm....hahahaha...what a mo...

kn7671 · 01-01-01, 01:12 AM

Jordan, think of it this way. If you are cooking something in the oven, you keep the door closed to keep that heat in, and if you have a fan inside a closed oven, you just blow around hot air. To cool the inside of the PC you need to bring fresh cool air in, and remove the hot air by an exhaust fan. The fan inside the power supply is to cool the power supply, not your PC. You need at least an 80mm fan as intake fan to bring cool air in the front of the PC, positioned close to the bottom for best results. You might be better off finding a case that is larger and is equipped with mounting for fans. As for the CPU, that is running a little hot, but is still within AMD specs. Most people will prefer cooler temps, therefore look into a good Heatsink for you machine.

jordan · 01-01-01, 01:31 PM

how about a 80mm on the rear blowing in, a 80 mm on the front blowing in and cutting a big hole on the side of the cpu case to put a 12V 120mm (or larger) right on the middle of the case side blowing out?

Deviant · 01-01-01, 02:02 PM

Yeah, any new setup will be better than the one you have at the moment. Try it and see.

kn7671 · 01-01-01, 02:39 PM

Jordan, the reason you put a fan in the Upper Rear portion on the case is because HEAT RISES. If you blow cool air in the back upper area of the case the heat will still just be distributed, blown, throughout the case. Some heat will escape from openings, but not as much as if the rear fan was an exhaust fan, pulling the heated air out of the case. This also follows as to why fans in the front are usually at the bottom bringing cooler air inwards. This assists in what the air is already doing, hot air rising. This is the principle applied to Hot Air Balloons. The hot air rises, the balloon traps it, the balloon rises, as the air cools, the balloon falls, more heat is needed to continue rise. Now when these balloons need to come down they just blow non-heated air into the balloon, or allow it to cool or escape, the temp drops, the balloon falls. Science 101 for you.

sleddog · 01-01-01, 05:24 PM

Quote:

jordan (Jan 01, 2001 01:31 p.m.):
how about a 80mm on the rear blowing in, a 80 mm on the front blowing in and cutting a big hole on the side of the cpu case to put a 12V 120mm (or larger) right on the middle of the case side blowing out?

Before cutting up your case try:

80mm rear top - blowing OUT.
80mm front bottom - blowing IN.

Clear up all your cabling. Especially get IDE cables out of the airflow. Get them laying flat or tucked away, so that there are the fewest possible obstructions to airflow across the motherboard. This is important!

Now monitor your temperature for awhile.

If you really want to cut your case, try this. Your 80mm fans are probably blowing/sucking through a pattern of holes drilled in the case. This reduces the amount of air the fan can move (and adds noise). Cut 80mm circles so the fans blow completely unobstructed. This will siginicantly increase airflow. You can get a fanguard to put on the one at rear to keep fingers out.

Monitor your temps again. I'd be surprised if your case was running hot after doing all this.

Additional airflow could be achieved by going to hi-performance 80mm fans, or even replacing the 80mm's with 92mm or 120mm fans if space permits.

jordan · 01-02-01, 07:07 AM

sledog- just to explore all options, what about just running a open case? the sides and top of my case come off independantly of each other

sleddog · 01-02-01, 12:45 PM

Well, an open case is great for cooling provided again there's some airflow. How drafty is your room?

You'd probably need a common household fan on the floor (or table) blowing into the case.

An open case has drawbacks... dirt, accidental damage (watch out for that vacuum cleaner...). Any young children in the house? Pets? I once left the side cover off a machine that was one the floor, running. Came back several hours later and found one of my cats asleep inside ("hey... what a nice warm, private place for a nap!")

WyrmMaster · 01-02-01, 05:38 PM

I know its been said, but good airflow is a must. I have 2 90mm fans in the front of my case blowing in, and one 90mm in the rear blowing out, and my case stays within 1C of ambient temp. I you want to look there are some really good articles on this subject on the main overclockers.com page.

dimmreaper · 01-02-01, 05:48 PM

Jordan-

How about ditching the case all together in exchange for liquid nitrogen cooled florient submersion?

meatcutter · 01-02-01, 11:01 PM

Holy Sheepdip Jeff...how in GAWDS name would you be able to utilize a watercooler in conjunction with that?!?

Quote:

Jeff Evans (Jan 02, 2001 05:48 p.m.):
Jordan-

How about ditching the case all together in exchange for liquid nitrogen cooled florient submersion?

klosters64a · 01-03-01, 10:53 AM

Hope I didn't miss this if it was already brought up in the thread. Frankly, Orbs ain't good HSF's. Even the Super Orb can't cut it when serious heat needs to be removed form a CPU. The best bang for buck is the GW FOP-32. For a really hot Duron/T-Bird, the FOP-38 is indicated. Caution. Attaching these is serious business. If you're stupid(ask the guy who is--oops, knows) crushing your glass CPU is easily done.

WizardCalledJosh · 01-03-01, 11:45 AM

Jordan,
Everyone here has you on the right track. I used to have 6-8 fans in my machines, but then I got smart and let the heat work for me. Intake in the low front exhaust in the top rear. I only need two case fans and a power supply fan (not counting the CPU fans) and it runs cool, and much quieter too. I discovered if you get a really big fan like a 120mm and run it as 5volts it will push a lot of air and you it puts out like 20decibles(very quiet). Here are some pics of my machine maybe it can help.
http://www.geocities.com/thedrod
I took the harddrive fan off just after the pics.

Torch · 01-03-01, 01:30 PM

Lookin for a little advice on cooling ... I have a 800Mhz Blue Meanie that's @ 950 stable right now. I have a Chrome Orb cooling it, one of the super slot fans exhausting from just under the voodoo3 3000, an 80mm intake fan on the front, and the PS exhaust fan near the top. My case is a Tiger case, and has 2 spot for 60mm fans on the back very near the CPU socket.

I have 2 60mm fans on the way, but my question is ... intake or exhaust at that location? Should I try to draw the heat directly away from the socket, or should I be blowing cool air in? I figured on just trying both ways, see what my temps are like, no big deal. I was just curious if anyone had some worthwhile thoughts...

Murphy · 01-03-01, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Jeff Evans (Jan 02, 2001 05:48 p.m.):
Jordan-

How about ditching the case all together in exchange for liquid nitrogen cooled florient submersion?

Hey Jeff, are you into aircooling again ??? did you recommend a PEP66? I almost didn't recognize you

. I agree on the pretested CPU thing (no OC'ing with side-wheels). Did the PEP change your mind on aircooling?

Torch · 01-03-01, 03:22 PM

Jordan, am I correct in assuming the fans you mounted on the side panel do not have any intake holes? They're just stuck to the side, with only one surface exposed? Nearly useless, bud. And I'd imagine this would stress the fans (not letting them breathe like that) and add to the heat rather than reduce it. That part is just conjecture. But I'm serious when I say you're wasting your time mounting the fans that way.

To answer my own question, it seems apparent that it's better to have more fans blowing cool air in that sucking the heat out. nonetheless, I'm gonna try it both ways.

12-31-00, 01:48 PM	Thread Starter #1
jordan Member Join Date: Dec 2000	case cooling hello :-) I have a 1Gig athlon unlocked and running at a multiplier of 12 on a abit kt7 board- it has no problems or glitches, but I am running a average temp of 54C when the cpu is used heavily- I have the thermaltake silver orb over it, a 40mm case fan on the rear of the case blowing in almost directly on the cpu cooler, as well as a 40mm fan on the front of the case blowing in, there are also (2) 30mm fans on heatsinks (coolermasters) blowing in the case (there is no intake from them, thay are bolted to the side case door blowing on the video card and basically moving arir around in there)- anyway, how can I cool things down? I am not sure of the best setup for the fans I have in there already. I was thinking of cutting out a hole on the side of the case and putting a 80mm or even a 120mm, but the only place to put it would be on the bottom of the case under the hard drive due to all the cards, wires, etc. Then again, I could remove the two fans I have bolted to the side and place the new fan there, but would a 80/120mm fan blowing straight down on the cpu cooler help or throw the cpu coolers sync off- sorry for the book, thanks in advance for your replies- Jordan
	QUOTE Thanks

12-31-00, 02:00 PM	#2
dimmreaper Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: home	Buy an Alpha PEP66 and watch you CPU temps drop 5-10C easy. $.02 __________________ Jeff Evans (The Outcast)
	QUOTE Thanks

12-31-00, 02:23 PM	#3
sleddog Member Join Date: Dec 2000	But cooling the CPU is not that effective if you don't get the hot air out of the case. Jordan: of all the fans you described I didn't see mention of an exhaust fan. The standard practice is fresh air in at lower front and hot air out at top rear. I just installed two 80mm fans in a case like this and the results were amazing. You need good air flow -- there's no sense in just adding fans blowing into the case. An 80mm (or bigger) exhaust fan near the CPU cooler is very effective.
	QUOTE Thanks

01-01-01, 12:23 AM	#4
dadx2mj Registered Join Date: Dec 2000	Sledog is right you need to get the hot air out not just blow it around. I would try to fit two 80mm fans in the back of case has exhaust fans and one or two if possible 80 mm fans in front for intake. Just remember getting hot air out is more important than bolwing air in.
	QUOTE Thanks

01-01-01, 01:12 AM	#6
kn7671 Registered Join Date: Dec 2000	Jordan, think of it this way. If you are cooking something in the oven, you keep the door closed to keep that heat in, and if you have a fan inside a closed oven, you just blow around hot air. To cool the inside of the PC you need to bring fresh cool air in, and remove the hot air by an exhaust fan. The fan inside the power supply is to cool the power supply, not your PC. You need at least an 80mm fan as intake fan to bring cool air in the front of the PC, positioned close to the bottom for best results. You might be better off finding a case that is larger and is equipped with mounting for fans. As for the CPU, that is running a little hot, but is still within AMD specs. Most people will prefer cooler temps, therefore look into a good Heatsink for you machine.
	QUOTE Thanks

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01-01-01, 01:31 PM	Thread Starter #7
jordan Member Join Date: Dec 2000	how about a 80mm on the rear blowing in, a 80 mm on the front blowing in and cutting a big hole on the side of the cpu case to put a 12V 120mm (or larger) right on the middle of the case side blowing out?
	QUOTE Thanks

01-01-01, 02:02 PM	#8
Deviant Registered Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: New Zealand	Yeah, any new setup will be better than the one you have at the moment. Try it and see.
	QUOTE Thanks

01-01-01, 02:39 PM	#9
kn7671 Registered Join Date: Dec 2000	Jordan, the reason you put a fan in the Upper Rear portion on the case is because HEAT RISES. If you blow cool air in the back upper area of the case the heat will still just be distributed, blown, throughout the case. Some heat will escape from openings, but not as much as if the rear fan was an exhaust fan, pulling the heated air out of the case. This also follows as to why fans in the front are usually at the bottom bringing cooler air inwards. This assists in what the air is already doing, hot air rising. This is the principle applied to Hot Air Balloons. The hot air rises, the balloon traps it, the balloon rises, as the air cools, the balloon falls, more heat is needed to continue rise. Now when these balloons need to come down they just blow non-heated air into the balloon, or allow it to cool or escape, the temp drops, the balloon falls. Science 101 for you.
	QUOTE Thanks

01-02-01, 07:07 AM	Thread Starter #11
jordan Member Join Date: Dec 2000	sledog- just to explore all options, what about just running a open case? the sides and top of my case come off independantly of each other
	QUOTE Thanks

01-02-01, 12:45 PM	#12
sleddog Member Join Date: Dec 2000	Well, an open case is great for cooling provided again there's some airflow. How drafty is your room? You'd probably need a common household fan on the floor (or table) blowing into the case. An open case has drawbacks... dirt, accidental damage (watch out for that vacuum cleaner...). Any young children in the house? Pets? I once left the side cover off a machine that was one the floor, running. Came back several hours later and found one of my cats asleep inside ("hey... what a nice warm, private place for a nap!")
	QUOTE Thanks

01-02-01, 05:38 PM	#13
WyrmMaster I'm a little teapot Senior Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Montana, USA	I know its been said, but good airflow is a must. I have 2 90mm fans in the front of my case blowing in, and one 90mm in the rear blowing out, and my case stays within 1C of ambient temp. I you want to look there are some really good articles on this subject on the main overclockers.com page.
	QUOTE Thanks

01-02-01, 05:48 PM	#14
dimmreaper Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: home	Jordan- How about ditching the case all together in exchange for liquid nitrogen cooled florient submersion? __________________ Jeff Evans (The Outcast)
	QUOTE Thanks

01-03-01, 10:53 AM	#16
klosters64a Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Seattle, Wa	Hope I didn't miss this if it was already brought up in the thread. Frankly, Orbs ain't good HSF's. Even the Super Orb can't cut it when serious heat needs to be removed form a CPU. The best bang for buck is the GW FOP-32. For a really hot Duron/T-Bird, the FOP-38 is indicated. Caution. Attaching these is serious business. If you're stupid(ask the guy who is--oops, knows) crushing your glass CPU is easily done.
	QUOTE Thanks

01-03-01, 11:45 AM	#17
WizardCalledJosh Registered Join Date: Dec 2000	Jordan, Everyone here has you on the right track. I used to have 6-8 fans in my machines, but then I got smart and let the heat work for me. Intake in the low front exhaust in the top rear. I only need two case fans and a power supply fan (not counting the CPU fans) and it runs cool, and much quieter too. I discovered if you get a really big fan like a 120mm and run it as 5volts it will push a lot of air and you it puts out like 20decibles(very quiet). Here are some pics of my machine maybe it can help. http://www.geocities.com/thedrod I took the harddrive fan off just after the pics.
	QUOTE Thanks

01-03-01, 01:30 PM	#18
Torch Registered Join Date: Mar 2001	Lookin for a little advice on cooling ... I have a 800Mhz Blue Meanie that's @ 950 stable right now. I have a Chrome Orb cooling it, one of the super slot fans exhausting from just under the voodoo3 3000, an 80mm intake fan on the front, and the PS exhaust fan near the top. My case is a Tiger case, and has 2 spot for 60mm fans on the back very near the CPU socket. I have 2 60mm fans on the way, but my question is ... intake or exhaust at that location? Should I try to draw the heat directly away from the socket, or should I be blowing cool air in? I figured on just trying both ways, see what my temps are like, no big deal. I was just curious if anyone had some worthwhile thoughts...
	QUOTE Thanks

01-03-01, 03:22 PM	#20
Torch Registered Join Date: Mar 2001	Jordan, am I correct in assuming the fans you mounted on the side panel do not have any intake holes? They're just stuck to the side, with only one surface exposed? Nearly useless, bud. And I'd imagine this would stress the fans (not letting them breathe like that) and add to the heat rather than reduce it. That part is just conjecture. But I'm serious when I say you're wasting your time mounting the fans that way. To answer my own question, it seems apparent that it's better to have more fans blowing cool air in that sucking the heat out. nonetheless, I'm gonna try it both ways.
	QUOTE Thanks

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