[Overclocker550]

lets see......the radeon9700 pro gets *with* FSAA the same fps the gf3 ti500 gets *without* fsaa and fsaa blurs. Therefore if fsaa is your aim, your wasting. you say "doom3" well that may be the only real reason, so wait till doom3 comes out before chosing a new card, prices would lower by then!

[funnyperson1]

wow, that is so wrong.....the 9700Pro crushes the Ti500 in benchmarks no matter what AA settings are used....

compare the benchies here:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic...charts-04.html

the 9700Pro gets 172 fps and the Ti500 gets 87.....somehow i think you are WRONG....please back up your statements with evidence next time....and fsaa does not blur...i dont know what you are talking about....the whole point of FSAA is to increase IQ, and when used in conjunction with Anisotropic filtering it looks soo much better than without....

[OC Noob]

OCer550, do you come up with this stuff all by yourself or do you use a paid monkey to think up these threads?


j/k

You are always good for a laugh and a pretty good sport about it when people take you to task for your...unique threads.

[Overclocker550]

radeon9700 pro 1600x1200 fsaa 100 points
radeon9700 pro 1600x1200 150 points
geforce3 ti500 1600x1200 fsaa 50 points
geforce3 ti500 1600x1200 100 points


Any questions? Note I didnt use fps, just scores.
Radeon9700 pro is faster so you get fsaa as a bonus
but those who dont need fsaa can get the geforce3 ti500
unless they think its not fast enough! look below
those images show how fsaa blurs.....






The word "FSAA" on top is low res. The middle is low res with FSAA
notice it gives no additional details, just blurs existing details
in an attempt to reduce jaggies. It works but can't hold a candle to the
high res image on below. Same story with the fishbowl. You can't add
details to something that doesnt exist, just make an approximate
extrapoliation. Say you take the numbers 10 and 20, you know the average is 15
but it could be 14.8 actually. Another example is take two colored pixels
in high res there may be several colors between the two pixels, in low res
you dont see whats in between. FSAA reduces the jaggies that is all. FSAA is
a little better, but high res has always been the way to go. I speak from
experience and my images prove the point percisely.

[breez]

Are those pictures FSAA:d by some 3D-card or did you just use Photoshop/PSP blurring effects? And that "high-resolution image" has something like 20x more resolution than "low-resolution image". Unfair comparison I think. And where did you get those points? You just made it up from nowhere, didn't you? Those are not real scores.

[Overclocker550]

I used gimp, scaled image. It automatically anti alises the image. The same effect would be seen on a 3-d card when running a game. My images are a simple, straitforeward example. I know they arent real scores, just comparsions. I dont expect everyone to understand, but again I explain: radeon9700 pro beats geforce3 ti500 IF all settings equal, but if you enable FSAA for the radeon9700 and disable FSAA for the geforce3 ti500, then youd get about the same fps for both cards........

[ReDeeMeR]

Radeon9700 is all about the bandwith man.

[breez]

Originally posted by Overclocker550
I used gimp, scaled image. It automatically anti alises the image. The same effect would be seen on a 3-d card when running a game. My images are a simple, straitforeward example. I know they arent real scores, just comparsions. I dont expect everyone to understand, but again I explain: radeon9700 pro beats geforce3 ti500 IF all settings equal, but if you enable FSAA for the radeon9700 and disable FSAA for the geforce3 ti500, then youd get about the same fps for both cards........

You're doing it wrong. Antialiasing/blurring done by GIMP/PSP/PS isn't the same as 3D-cards method. I still don't get it what the purpose of this thread is.

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1683&p=17

9700Pro with AA beats Ti4600 without AA. Ti4600 is considerably faster than Ti500.

[mbentley]

well from what i have read, it sounds like he is saying that if you are looking for that ultimate doom 3 card, wait until doom 3 is released before getting your card... why waste the extra cash on the card now when you can just wait and the card might drop in price? and i think he's right on there. a lot of people are asking about what card will run doom 3... well wait and see... then make an educated decision instead of an educated guess.

[Ugmore Baggage]

The problem with your procedure is when you scaled the image you (theoretically) moved it further into the distance. An AA image looks sharper and includes more details, including distance info. The only blurring that would actually occur in an AA image would be when there's doubt about which color should take precedence in an image.

Let's take the case of a very low res screen background.
000
000
000

and a very lowres model in front of the middle and upper left corner
99
99

when the image is reproduced it looks thus
990
990
000

Now we reduce our screen resolution to below what the math engine can support
xx
xx

with no AA, the image may look like this
90
00
or this
00
00
or flicker between the two options

with AA it should look something like this
95
50

AA is better in most people's opinions because it shows where and how large the model is more clearly, supplying more information to the brain.
No AA does not (as some people assume) only put pixels where the image is 100%, so you get blocky - inaccurate images.

a sloped line, width 1.5 is more accurately

9200
2920
0292

than
9000
0990
0090

Try redoing your examples but turn AA off to see the blocky effects created with no AA. Comparing them to the original is deceptive.

[Desperado84]

only one comment to make to overclocker 550
not only are you illiterate, but stupid.

[PreservedSwine]

O/C550- instead of looking at text, try looking at games. Jaggies still exist at high resolutions, there is NO WAY to avoid it.

Prperly implemented FSAA does not blur. I think you're confusing lousy modes of Nvdia FSAA w/ FSAA on the whole. Believe it or not, companies like Matrox and ATI implementation does *not* blur the screen with FSAA.

I know I'm probably talking to a brick wall here, but you "argument" is silly, in this case. It's nice to see you try and think, but please, just read up alittle about what you're talking about before you show everyone just how much you don't know...

[mbentley]

Originally posted by Desperado84
only one comment to make to overclocker 550
not only are you illiterate, but stupid.

desperado, i really don't think that's necessary to say... by the way, you might want to check the original user agreement where it says that no personal attacks are to be tolerated... to call somebody stupid is a personal attack, period. if you don't have something nice to say, just keep it to yourself. it's that simple. that's just uncalled for here.

[idgamerd]

How can you even compare? It's common sence that Radeon 9700 PRO is a lot faster. Also please stop making these STUPID topics.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Originally posted by idgamerd
How can you even compare?

maybe he's comparing them using Doom 2

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by Overclocker550
radeon9700 pro 1600x1200 fsaa 100 points
radeon9700 pro 1600x1200 150 points
geforce3 ti500 1600x1200 fsaa 50 points
geforce3 ti500 1600x1200 100 points


Any questions? Note I didnt use fps, just scores.
Radeon9700 pro is faster so you get fsaa as a bonus
but those who dont need fsaa can get the geforce3 ti500
unless they think its not fast enough! look below
those images show how fsaa blurs.....






The word "FSAA" on top is low res. The middle is low res with FSAA
notice it gives no additional details, just blurs existing details
in an attempt to reduce jaggies. It works but can't hold a candle to the
high res image on below. Same story with the fishbowl. You can't add
details to something that doesnt exist, just make an approximate
extrapoliation. Say you take the numbers 10 and 20, you know the average is 15
but it could be 14.8 actually. Another example is take two colored pixels
in high res there may be several colors between the two pixels, in low res
you dont see whats in between. FSAA reduces the jaggies that is all. FSAA is
a little better, but high res has always been the way to go. I speak from
experience and my images prove the point percisely.

the only problem is youre making all of this up....

mbentley, what you said is a good point but far from his....what OC550 said is that " the Ti500 is as fast as a 9700Pro" and that my friend is bs....

what are these points? did you make them up? honestly i have never heard of 100points being assigned in benchmarks unless you have a Rage Pro and youre tyring to run 3dmark...fps is what has always been the basics....

AA in games is completely different from AA in pictures...you dont even have an option for Aniso in pictures.....

also the main point : Ti500 is as fast as 9700Pro is FALSE, THE 9700PRO IS NOT ONLY FASTER THAN THE TI500 IT IS FASTER THAN THE TI4600 AS WELL, AND THIS IS WITH AA AND ANISO TURNED OFF so please put the pipe DOWN

[mbentley]

just to clarify, i don't agree with him i just wanted to make sure that's clear... a 9700 pro is the best you can get now, hands down... plus i am an eye candy fan i need all the candy enabled...

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by mbentley
just to clarify, i don't agree with him i just wanted to make sure that's clear... a 9700 pro is the best you can get now, hands down... plus i am an eye candy fan i need all the candy enabled...

i knew that you didnt agree with him, but you seemed to have misread his point....or you were just trying to prevent the inevitable flame

[ONEfastPC]

Radeon 9700pro driver settings are automaticly default set higher for visualy better Graphics over the geforce3 Ti500 default driver settings automaticly set for a blend of Performance/visual

and the radeon 9700pro still will beat the Geforce3 ti500 by at least 25% with all other hardware remaining equal.

turn off the radeon options to equal ati500 default and i bet its more like 50%

also turned "on" by default is at least 5 visual options the Ti500 doesnt even have.

now look at a game designed with the need for a high fill rate even when its visual quality is set to default,

lets use Everquest as a example.

without the luclin models turned on a ti500 can motor through the game fine. yet with the models on the game can slow to a crawl during normal raids.

swap in a radeon9700pro and turn on the eye candy and your back in busniess again.

the game auto sets the models "Off" by default with the ti500 yet Turns them all "on" by default with the 9700pro.

also try lowering/ turning off the options the ti500 dont have/use by default. bet you would see the speed difference.

so remember almost every game Auto configures your graphics based on what card you have. there not set settings benchmarks.

now do you want/need the extra texture/particals the game offeres or are you happy with the basic visual?

that would be the real question to ask here.


dollar for dollar whats the "Best" card going for the money?

simple......

the one "your" most happy with.

Im a lucky one, I got a sapphire9500 and o/c ,mod to 9700pro
without artifacts.

would I have a 9700pro if not for the $160 +mod?

no.

would I still use a ti500 ?
well,
i got one in one of my backup PCs and a its highly noticable lower visual/gameplay difference in all games over my ti4400 and my Radeon 9500+mod

I guess if you dont have the money to spend, or your happy with what you got then a Ti500 can do the job and keep you happy.

if you want to take advantage of all the goodies the games offer and have the option to upgrade, then great also.

<><><> its like saying.....My $500 plain used old car with no luxuries gets me to everyplace I want to go therefor it must be better then my friends new $20,000 loaded with luxuries car... what one would you rather have?<><><>

its all in what "you" think is Best for "your" cituation.

[Vertical_Zer0]

Originally posted by mbentley
then make an educated decision instead of an educated guess.

EXCELLENT POINT. You should all listen to the wisdom of this fine human being.