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Question for people who advocate Sparkle PSU's...

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BoonieRat

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2002
Are you aware that the 5 volt rail only has a high ampage (40amp) when the 3.3volt rail is at 10.6amps or less?, if the 3.3volt is above (and up to 28amp) the max 5volt is only 28.5amps.

Quote from Sparkle Specs/PDA manual
When +3.3V is load to 28A, the +5V maximum load is 28.5A
When +3.3V is load to 10.6A, the +5V maximum load is 40A

It also says:

Total combined power of +3.3V & +5V is 235 watts maximum
Maximum power: 400W
Is the combined max +5V & +3.3V reading 'worth' the same as one were there is no limit on one or the other?, a True Power 550 for example?...

Also what is the average amperage draw on the +3.3V rail for an overclocked Athlon?, (say an 1800+). is it more than 10.6A?...

Do you think the 'change' in amperage supplied to +3.3V & +5V is gradual or an instant 'kick in' on/off?...


Thanx for any enlightenment, I'm not trying to bash Sparkle PSU's it's just I've never seen anyone ever mention this, and I'm sure it's pertinant...
 
Even Antec TruePowers have combined power limits, only they're for all three main voltages, not just the +3.3V and +5V. Otherwise you could draw the maximum labelled current from each rail without exceeding the power rating of the PSU, but for a 430W TP that would amount to well over 500W (it could probably do it easily but would be operating beyond official specs).

I'm simply guessing, but I don't think that a fast Athlon mobo draws that much from the +3.3V because the CPU core and any other really low voltages are taken from the +5.0V or +12.0V.
 
I'm most interseted in wether this is gradual, and what an O/C rig draws off the +3.3V. don't graphics run off the 3.3 rail?, it depends on mobo I supose. some mobos run the RAM off of it as well I think, though my KX7 runs off the 5V rail...

These are the two important rails though, at least you can gaurentee 250+A combined from the Antec if you don't exceed (if I remember rightly ) 18A on the 12V rail, you know you won't suddenly loose 1/4 of your output 5V output(worst case!) I hope it IS gradual...
 
I don't think it's really something to worry about, I really doubt most systems would draw a full 400 watts no matter what you do to it. Most will run on a good (and by good, I mean over $60) 350 watt supply, and IMHO, 500+ watts are severe overkill. We're talking home electronics, not welders. Raids are the worst, actually, and mine runs fine on a 300 watter (with 2 neons, camera power, and pump relay too).

I like Sparkle supplies for more reasons than just what you mentioned, and honestly, I didn't really pay that much attention when I bought my first one (it came included with my cube case).

It's strong, silent, and dependable. It will take a full short with a simple shut down. It's components are large and quality stuff. It's heatsinks inside are some of the biggest I've seen. It's also capable of puting out at least 10% more than it's ratings too (as said by others). The wiring is also a larger gage than some I've seen too.

I think this Schwartz contest about larger and larger power supplies is crazy. Try using a clamp-on amp meter on your power supply's cord once, while running your favourite torture program, compare that to your actuall voltage, and you'll be surprised what the actual wattage used is. I'm not saying "don't buy a good power supply", I'm saying "buy a reasonable power supply".
Not trying to bust on ya, just I've been hearing this so much it ain't funny....500 watts..Ha!
 
BoonieRat said:
Are you aware that the 5 volt rail only has a high ampage (40amp) when the 3.3volt rail is at 10.6amps or less?, if the 3.3volt is above (and up to 28amp) the max 5volt is only 28.5amps.

Quote from Sparkle Specs/PDA manual

When +3.3V is load to 28A, the +5V maximum load is 28.5A
When +3.3V is load to 10.6A, the +5V maximum load is 40A


Total combined power of +3.3V & +5V is 235 watts maximum
Maximum power: 400W

Yes, I am fully aware of this. Simple math describes the relationship that Sparkle has been kind enough to show the implications of.

Power=(Volts)(Amps)

3.3+5V Power=235W

The two examples listed just illustrate what the meaning of 3.3+5v power is.

(3.3V)(28A) = 92.4W <---3.3V power
(5V)(28.5A) =142.5W <----5V power
--------------------------
3.3+5V power>234.9W

(3.3V)(10.6A)=34.98W <----3.3V power
(5V)(40A) = 200.00W <----5V power
-----------------------------
3.3+5V power> 234.98W

This is perfectly normal and expected, as we are told the 3.3+5V maximum is 235W for this particular supply. The above figures are just the natural mathematical consequences of this fact.

Don't get too hung up in specs. They are a terrible replacement for any actual knowledge of the product in question. I refer to the tendancy to take specs at face value and act on them as "psuedo knowledge". It is a trap many fall into, as few have the experience to know the actual performance and capability of the products they are comparing, and thus place the specs in their proper perspective. Basically if all we know about a given product is the specs, we don't really know much at all about it.

Going by specs alone we might be tempted to purchase say, a heavily over-rated $30 "500W" supply as it might have impressive numbers attatched to it. As well we might overlook the excellent Fortron/Sparkle supplies as they are very conservatively rated. But the truth is either the 350 or 400W Fortron/Sparkle's are amongst the most capable of PC power supplies. The nature and magnitude of the actual loads that are presented are much different than the face value assumptions most users have in regards to them. While the actual power drawn by a PC is far less than most realize, there are other dimentions to the load's characteristics to be considered. Reactance and capacitance must be understood and acounted for before any real insight into the supply's performance can be achieved.

All spec and theory aside, the Sparkle's bear the load placed on them with terrific grace. They don't have some of the things that don't really matter (multiple fans, inflated specs, or undue focus on circuit topography), but do have awesome performance, quality and value. Whatever shortcomings you might perceive in the specs of a Sparkle are really shortcomings in both the ability of simple spec sheet data to convey the reality of the situation along with a lack of understanding of the true nature of power supplies and the loads they face.

The things Diggrr noticed and mentioned concerning the situation are valid as well. Well, save one...

Diggrr said:
Most will run on a good (and by good, I mean over $60) 350 watt supply...

Far and away the best 350W supply available is the Fortron/Sparkle 350. It costs a mere $38 from directron, or 42 from newegg. But it is true that most systems (just a gnat's eyelash away from all) will run of it to great effect. It makes 220W of 3.3+5V power, quite a step up from the 185W of the Enermax 350. Quality is more important than large numbers, either on the spec sheet or on the invoice. Fortron is a huge concern, making these supplies on a huge scale in China at very economical rates. They don't feel compelled to inflate either the specs or the prices they charge. I never would have guessed before actually using the supplies at length, but they also have first class design and construction, and as such offer unmatched value. Some companies do indeed perform at a high level, and this is one of them.

It's not that specs are totally useless, and it's not that Fortron is capable of no wrong. But the simple fact remains that at present they are doing it all right. Their specs are very good, but even better is the fact that they exceed them by unmatched amounts in this industry. Take advantage.
 
Just to add a note to Larva's post I have a PC Power & Cooling Turbo 350 and it has run fine to this date. I also recently after Larva's praise of the Fortron/Source power supplies purchased the 400 watt model with PFC from directron and it is working great on my Abit KD7 motherboard which is known to be a power hog.
 
Can someone answer whether its gradual?, or if 10.6A is 'far and beyond reach' for peace of mind?...
 
BoonieRat said:
Do you think the 'change' in amperage supplied to +3.3V & +5V is gradual or an instant 'kick in' on/off?...

The amperage change would be near instant.
The LCD on on a multimeter is pokey and slow (just incase that's what prompted the question).

And larva, kind of embarrased really, my Sparkle 300 was $60. Didn't know the prices were lower, it's been three years.... When I bought my newest Sparkle (400 watter) I didn't really shop, I just saw it on new-egg and bought it with the rest of my stuff. The only reason I bought a 400 was because this Abit AT7 Max has a buttload of USB and can raid 8 drives (which I hope to do sometime)....I'm sure that would push a 300 watter too far. Quality is what I was aluding to, though I based the comparrison on price.
 
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I don't advocate the 300 sparkle (excellent as it is) for all but those that only have $27 to spend. It is very capable, but the 350 is extremely capable and only a few dollars more. I have run big overclocked P4 rigs off even the 250W model, but it costs virtually as much as the 300, so I don't recommend it. The 400W model is a good value as well, but the extra capacity over the 350W simply isn't needed for the vast majority of cases. But it is always better to error on the side of caution when sizing power supplies.
 
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