Diving in...newbie questions

I'm thinking about entering the new (to me) and exciting world of water cooling. My primary concern is noise, but I'd also like a system that is at least a little better than a decent air cooled system. I currently have an AX-7 with a thermaltake smartfan that never goes over 4000rpms...oh and four 3000 rpm case fans that make quite a racket.

After spending awhile searching around on this board it seems that most of you would convince me to build my own system. However, I have a few fears regaurding diy systems and watercooling in general.

First of all...I think I need a pump relay switch, because I have a wife, and I'm just not sure she'd remember to turn the water on. Is there a way to do this without modding the PS? Also, with systems like the Koolance and Thermaltake that come with relay switches, do they require the same type of PS mod for the relay?

Secondly, a 'large' drawback to diy setups (internal ones anyway) seems to be the size. Sure they outperform the commercially avialiable kits, but they also barely fit into modded antec cases, and I haven't seen too many rigs using 1/2" tubing with video and chipset coolers installed. Lots of people post nice pics of their cpu cooler installed and minimal other hardware...esp pci cards.

Additional Questions...

What kind of difference could one expect using 1/2" tubing instead of 3/8" tubing in a similar setup?

Would a good waterblock (such as the tc-4,evo,or db2) have much of an effect on the performance of a Koolance based system or are the pumps,rad, and tubing what holds the system back?

If I do decide to go with a diy setup, I like the idea of a submerged pump in a reservior, and to do this I'd probably be going with external cooling. An external system kind of negates the pump relay idea, so I imagine I'd have to use the power strip method to ensure that the pump turns on when the cpu does. I'm currently not a 24/7 user, but if I could get a system quite enough for my wife I probably would be. Either way, I don't want my water to be on when my system isn't.

if i go with a pre made kit these are the possibilities i'm considering:

1. koolance case and a good block...run of the mill looks and performance, but easy to setup/maintain
2. cooltechnica case...it looks pretty nice and looks like it could perform well
3. the thermaltake kit also seems pretty nice although i understand that it is not meant for performance cooling. i just like the whole ease of setup bit

anyway if i go diy here is a possible setup i may go with...of course I'd have to figure out how to stuff it in my case.

component desc reatailer cost

Pump 200 gph sub dtekcustoms $-
Radiator core cooler comb dtekcustoms $48.00
Fan ever cool alu directron $13.00
Reservior dtek aluminum dtekcustoms $64.00
CPU Block dtek tc-4 alu dtekcustoms $47.00
GPU Block dtek dtekcustoms $35.00
Tubing tygon 1/2" dtekcustoms $21.20
Fittings nylon clamps dtekcustoms $10.00
pmp relay thermaltake wherever $20.00

total $258.20

I've spent a couple days searching the forums and reading the stickies, so i hope i've earned the right to post.

Hi, and welcome to the forums.
The extra money you are laying out there is for piece of mind because you are new to it all. Get rid of the resevoir, get a heatercore from an autoparts store, clamps are not needed with Tygon if the tubing goes onto oversized barbs and cancel the pump relay till you find the mod to make one yourself. That will save you about $120 on your current list.

gone_fishin said:

Hi, and welcome to the forums.
The extra money you are laying out there is for piece of mind because you are new to it all. Get rid of the resevoir, get a heatercore from an autoparts store, clamps are not needed with Tygon if the tubing goes onto oversized barbs and cancel the pump relay till you find the mod to make one yourself. That will save you about $120 on your current list.

Click to expand...

I am also new and have not yet plunged in so to speak.
I have purchased a few things so far.
I believe and have read that a heatercore is better in terms of cooling than some of the ready made computer cooling radiators thefore I say the same thing as Gone_Fishin get a heater core.
I am going to get a resivior but I am just going to make 1 like this

Cheap resovior

That looks like a cool idea for a res, always use one. It is much better and more volume of water will get you lower temps.

edit:
well at the time I posted this that is what I "thought", oh well.

You would do well with a pump relay. I've got a wife and kids, so I wouldn't take that chance either.

It is possible to add it externally: simply connect a relay to one of the molex, and wire in your pump to be turned on by it.

If you don't know how, you can get a kit, or pm me.

Can't you just tell us or show us an article on how to wire in the relay?
If I am not mistaken and PLEASE correct me there are 4 posts on a solid state relay.

+O 3-12V DC - O



O 40-240Vac O

Wire the pump by cutting one side of the wire and connecting through the AC side.

My only ? is do you need something on the DC side?
25A 24-280VAC SSR 3-15VDC CONTROL
This is what I ordered from MPJA.

I am to lazy to use Google.

thanks for the advice fishin

i do like the solid state relay idea too...i may look into that a bit further

skathul...you bring up a good point that i've thought about. a lot of people use inline systems, but it would seem that a res system with more water would run cooler. is there some major disadvantage to res systems (besides the bulk of the res) does it impede flow or something?

I am beginning to love this water coolong thing however, a resivior is not needed and IMHO not necessary.
Having said that yup I want a resivior for 1 reason. My pump will probably pump more water if not restriced to pulling water throught a 1/2 line rather than pulling water from a resivior.

Think, if you have a 4 quart resivior your pumping say 1 gallon a minute then the water in the resivior is only there for say 2 miniutes assuming there is 1.5 gallons total water. Just how long does it take circulate? True it will heat up slowly but, lets say for arguement you, use the system for 2-3 hours at a time. So instead of 1 hour your at max Heat it takes 2 hours. End result is the same as the water is probably not going to cool much in the resivoir unless it is copper.

BTW I can tell you the PVC resivior is not going to release much heat

right, that makes sense...the res is not another radiator. I guess the only thing a res would do in my case would be a place to submerge the pump and act as a filling point. It sounds like an inline system would be a little bit more easier to manage/maintain though...if i can get a good quiet pump

go with 1/2". for ovisous reasons. less restriction. more water, more cooling potential. I never had a 3/8th system , so my opinion is empty. i try to use 5/8 when i can.

Realgun said:

Can't you just tell us or show us an article on how to wire in the relay?
If I am not mistaken and PLEASE correct me there are 4 posts on a solid state relay.

+O 3-12V DC - O



O 40-240Vac O

Wire the pump by cutting one side of the wire and connecting through the AC side.

My only ? is do you need something on the DC side?
25A 24-280VAC SSR 3-15VDC CONTROL
This is what I ordered from MPJA.

I am to lazy to use Google.

Click to expand...

Right...

Connect one of the PSU's molex to the "3-12 Vdc" inputs. Black is negative, and you can use either red (+5v) or yellow (+12v) for the positive terminal. Then, you can cut one of the power lines from the pump, and hook up both ends to the SSR's AC terminals (I think you got that part).

If it doesn't make sense to you, don't do it.

You should first test to see if your PSU can activate the SSR, without drawing too much power. I'd start with the 12v line. (I think the SSR might need a load, in order to work).

IF it needs a load don't I just wire a resister in series? I could get a pot and then when it starts the pump, hoping it doesnt blow the PSU, wire in that size if resister.

I took Electronics I was hoping that the Relay had a fairly high resistance already or buub by PSU. I dont want to lose the 400 watt Antec. Ah but kid 1 and kid 2 have cheapie systems.

I wonder where I can get the specs on that thing?

skahtul said:

That looks like a cool idea for a res, always use one. It is much better and more volume of water will get you lower temps.

Click to expand...

higher volume of water = better temps is not an advantage of a resevoir. Actually, a higher volume of water only means that the system will take longer to reach its max temp, but it will not get you lower temperatures. just a little watercooling theory for beginners.

res or t-line is a matter of choice. many people consider the res to be simpler in filling and what not. neither provide cooling benefits (neglecting the flow restriction in a t-joint and similar minimal differences). so just pick what you prefer.

hmm, i hope commercially available relay kits come with decent instructions...

I.M.O.G. said:

higher volume of water = better temps is not an advantage of a resevoir. Actually, a higher volume of water only means that the system will take longer to reach its max temp, but it will not get you lower temperatures. just a little watercooling theory for beginners.

res or t-line is a matter of choice. many people consider the res to be simpler in filling and what not. neither provide cooling benefits (neglecting the flow restriction in a t-joint and similar minimal differences). so just pick what you prefer.

Click to expand...

Hmm... So if you drained 1/2 the antifreeze out of your car, it would still cool just like it always did? I am new and just had that thought to throw out, I have only built 1 rig (working on my second) and was just wondering. Also, HERE is how I did my res, it was only 4.50 US plus fittings.

no skahtul that is not what im saying. if you half fill your wc loop then it wont work when needed. if you half fill your car with antifreeze it wont work when needed. You need the minimum amount necessary atleast so there is no air in the loop.

What i was saying is that if you have 1 gallon of water in your loop and your max temp you reach is 40C then that is equilibrium for your cooling loop the way it is configured. if you have 50 gallons of water in your loop, 40C will still be equilibrium for your cooling loop, it will just take longer to get to that max. it doesnt actually cool better.

Ah, I see. Well like I said i am no expert. So it would probably make a differance if you used a HUGE radiator because of the surface area being cooled? (last stupid post here)

i dont mean to make you feel like your posts are stupid, just explaining the way things are. few around here are experts, i think most are here to simply exchange ideas and learn.

you're right that a huge radiator could give better performance considering the larger surface area for the water to give the rad heat and the larger surface area for air to take the heat away. at some point though, the increased resistance would negate any benefits.

back to thread topic...

I.M.O.G. said:

back to thread topic...

Click to expand...

Right.. I really like my DD Maze3 and it is much cheaper then the one you (Bacchana1) posted at the very begining of this thead. I like things made of copper but have nothing to compare it to, it keeps my system cool.HERE is a good place for stuff and a relay kit that looke easy. Also I have ran their Maxi-Jet 900 for a few months (not very long) with no problems and have read many others who use/like it, only 27.00.

Realgun said:

IF it needs a load don't I just wire a resister in series? I could get a pot and then when it starts the pump, hoping it doesnt blow the PSU, wire in that size if resister.

I took Electronics I was hoping that the Relay had a fairly high resistance already or buub by PSU. I dont want to lose the 400 watt Antec. Ah but kid 1 and kid 2 have cheapie systems.

I wonder where I can get the specs on that thing?

Click to expand...

What I meant, is that you should pull out the PSU, get it started by itself, and see if it triggers the pump on. Then check all your PSU voltages, and if possible, measure the amperage draw from the SSR on the PSU.

If the SSR draws too much current, your PC will behave erraticly.

Bacchana1 said:

hmm, i hope commercially available relay kits come with decent instructions...

Click to expand...

They should.