CAD/OpenGL question

speedy4500 · Feb 8, 2003

I'm about to start constructing a new computer for a friend who is a gamer and engineer. The budget for this system is plenty, so it's basically a Ti4600 or Radeon 9700 Pro....my question is which one has better OpenGL drivers? I know they both perform extremely well in Direct3D games and such, but does anyone have experience with either of these cards in a CAD or OpenGL environment? He will be using this machine for engineering projects. Or should I also consider a Matrox Parhelia? The rest of the system is Asus P4PE, 2.66 P4, 1 GB DDR of undecided speed yet, 80GB Seagate, 450w PS, Lian Li case, etc. etc. blah blah. Thanks for any help!

cruc1fy · Feb 8, 2003

Neither of those cards are good for solid modeling. If he's going to do 2D cad, either will work.

If he's going to be doing 3D cad, either of them will be great IF you mod them to either a Quadro or a Fire GL. Stock they aren't very good in OGL environments.

speedy4500 · Feb 8, 2003

I realize that for a strictly modeling environment, a Quadro or FireGL or 3dlabs Wildcat card would be best. However, they usually cost more and give up some room in the Direct3D department. I'm not asking what card to get for modeling, I'm asking whether the nVidia or ATi would be better. I'm conceding that neither choice is optimal for modeling. He has access to workstations in computer labs if he really needs high power graphics, but I just wanna know whether the Radeon 9700 Pro or Ti4600 will offer a better all-around package for modeling and gaming as to make it more convenient for him so that it is not necessary to go to the computing labs for some of his projects. However, from your response, I am led to believe that in an OpenGL environment, they both equally suck....am I right? Is it really just a question of preference and/or price?

cruc1fy · Feb 8, 2003

If he has access to workstations, then they will both suck because he'll know what he's missing.

You seemed to miss what I said about the Quadro and Fire GL, though.

either of them will be great IF you mod them to either a Quadro or a Fire GL

The Radeon9700Pro can be software modded to a full-fledged Fire GL X1. Similarly, the GeForce4 Ti 4600 can be software modded to (almost) a full-fledged Quadro4 900XGL.

Which is better really depends on the application, but a modded card will beat the living hell out of the stock one. For example, running SPECViewPerf (an OpenGL benchmarking suite), my performance increased by 101% on average from my GF4 Ti 4200 to my Q4 700XGL. In some cases, performance more than trippled (and, as a side note, my framerate in Quake2 went from 60 to 2000).

I'd pick whichever card costs less (between the 4600 and the 9700). Then visit www.guru3d.com for the software mod. Since he's also looking at gaming, the 9700 is probably the better choice.

HotKoala · Feb 8, 2003

speedy4500 said:
I realize that for a strictly modeling environment, a Quadro or FireGL or 3dlabs Wildcat card would be best. However, they usually cost more and give up some room in the Direct3D department. I'm not asking what card to get for modeling, I'm asking whether the nVidia or ATi would be better.

NV has the stronger OGL drivers of the two. If his end product output matters, get a real Quadro or FireGL card.

Benchmarking and getting high numbers are one thing. Getting paid and modeling as/for a profession are another.

voxace · Feb 9, 2003

I'd go the Ti4600, just go to X-Bit Labs coz they have a big 3dsmax 5 video card shootout thingy...
I also know that my 4600 doesn't do too badly in max5, pretty smooth until the polys get over 500,000!

OC Noob · Feb 9, 2003

I didn't know you could soft mod the 9700 pro, can you do it to an 8500le?

I might have to sap cards with my sister-in-law so she can have dual monitors and find a better home for that Ti4200 softquadro she has right now

cruc1fy · Feb 9, 2003

OC Noob said:
I didn't know you could soft mod the 9700 pro, can you do it to an 8500le?

I might have to sap cards with my sister-in-law so she can have dual monitors and find a better home for that Ti4200 softquadro she has right now

i'm not sure about the 8500. I know they can be hard modded, and I assume they can be soft modded, but I don't know if anyone's put a nice hack package together.

SoftQuadro4 works with the older (non-4) GeForces, though, so the new SoftFireGL might work with older Radeons.

HotKoala · Feb 9, 2003

cruc1fy said:
SoftQuadro4 works with the older (non-4) GeForces, though, so the new SoftFireGL might work with older Radeons.

Only the 8500 line. That was the first ATi chip of be modified to a Professional Graphics chip. The rest were aquired when ATi bought Diamond.

Penguin4x4 · Feb 9, 2003

I'm pretty sure I saw an article where a Geforce 4Ti can be Hard modded.......or am I insane? :eh?:

-------------------------EDIT------------------------

Found It!

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1013385350

OC Noob · Feb 9, 2003

Cool, I'll have to look around for it and see what I can come up with.

cruc1fy · Feb 9, 2003

Penguin4x4 said:
I'm pretty sure I saw an article where a Geforce 4Ti can be Hard modded.......or am I insane?

-------------------------EDIT------------------------

Found It!

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1013385350

Yes it can... it's very easy to do (my XGL700 is a hard mod). Hard modding the 9700 to the GL X1 is a lot more complicated than hard modding the FG to Quadro.

pip · Feb 9, 2003

I can't find the soft fgl

speedy4500 · Feb 9, 2003

Update

He has read about the GeForce FX and has his heart set on that....I tried to talk him out of it saying the Radeon 9700 Pro is just as good and it isn't as loud or hot, but he doesn't care. Ah well, the customer is always right, eh? Thanks for all your advice though.

Balzlak · Feb 9, 2003

Well, if he can hard mod it to a Quadro FX, and lowers the clock speed, he could prolly lose the huge cooler. In additon, I've heard great things about the Quadro FX in those apps.

cruc1fy · Feb 10, 2003

Balzlak said:
Well, if he can hard mod it to a Quadro FX, and lowers the clock speed, he could prolly lose the huge cooler. In additon, I've heard great things about the Quadro FX in those apps.

He absolutely could. Afterall, the QuadroFX doesn't have the insane cooler.

voxace · Feb 10, 2003

Doesn't the QuadroFX run at some crappy speed like 300/620?

cruc1fy · Feb 10, 2003

Firingsquad.com
I’ve run benchmarks at high resolutions when possible to minimize the influence of the CPU. By default the Quadro FX 2000 operates at 300/600MHz in 2D mode, and 400/800MHz in 3D performance mode. The new Detonators allow “auto-detection” of the optimal overclocking speed. This was determined to be 468/937. The GeForce FX 5800 Ultra runs at 500/1000.

Looks like you can OC the QFX to GFX speeds.

seer33 · Feb 10, 2003

9700pro to fgl? someone link

CrystalMethod · Feb 10, 2003

voxace said:
Doesn't the QuadroFX run at some crappy speed like 300/620?

When you're modeling you don't need FPS, so the speed is pointless.

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