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Building a Water Chiller?

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Old 02-09-03, 03:03 PM Thread Starter   #1
EdDiE_20o3
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Building a Water Chiller?


I was reading this article and thought it was a good idea:

http://www.procooling.com/articles/h...ter_chille.php

I am guessing he has not much surface-area inside these waterblocks ... if you were to make a maze sort of shape inside the blocks and keep the water in there for a long time would this be something that could lower water temperatures to below ambient ... even if you were cooling a Peltier, CPU etc ...

Also would more powerful peltiers make a big difference?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks

Last edited by EdDiE_20o3; 02-11-03 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 02-09-03, 03:17 PM Thread Starter   #2
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Another Idea ...


I had another idea, what if I had one or two heatsinks on the inside of a resevor attached to the cold side of some peltiers and then use a heatsink or waterblock from a seperate system to cool the hot side?

The heatsinks would create a lot of surface area and hopefully make at least a small difference in the water temperature ...

Or is this just a stupid idea that isn't worth the money?

This idea is similar to some of the ideas proposed in this topic:
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...hreadid=165536
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Old 02-10-03, 06:28 PM   #3
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blocks


I think the reason he only got a .5 degree change is:

It looks like an open block with and inlet an outlet.
Water blocks work for a reason. The blocks have ports and passages in it to slow the water down to absorb heat.

I think if you build a peltier cooler like a water block it would work better.

I still don't think you would get the performance out of it
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Old 02-10-03, 10:02 PM   #4
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I believe the reason he got a .5C drop is the same reason we get a .1C increase going thru the block..... Flow speed

But if we take the time to prechill the water with the pelt, then we might reach a very low temp equilibrum(sp?). For example, if we start at 22C ambient, run the pelt(s) until the water gets to around 0C, then turn on the computer, I wonder if we could maintain 0C water temp?

The other thing to consider is surface area of the pelt. Instead of using 1 x 226 pelt, perhaps 8 x 65w might do a better job of cooling. Also, the addition of heatsinks on both sides of the pelt's might do a much better job of distrubing the cold/heat. Heat sinks such as these see #11 or 12.

Using the Kryotherm calculator, 8 x 65w pelts with the following spec
Ambient = 20C
Volt = 8.3
Object Heat = 100w
Rh=.1 (dreaming)
Rc= .1 (dreaming again)
Rins = 2
We get system results of
A= 24.7 amps
W = 204.99
Qc=116.35
Qh=321.34
Tob= -12.7C

If we flow the prechilled water over a pelt array, I feel it could at least maintain the temp desired?

The is all conjecture of course. Anyone with any real experience in this?

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Old 02-10-03, 10:25 PM Thread Starter   #5
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If we could maintain 0C with the water, them using that to cool a peltier under the waterblock on the CPU would get some decent sub-zero temps?

I like this idea! ... maybe we could increase surface area buy making a waterblock with quite a bit of surface area and try to make it so the water stays in it for as long as possible.

I suspect the person in the link above would of used straight piping and still got .5C of a temperature drop. What if we used something much, much better?

Damn, now I want to try this! but I would need another pump and another radiator for the other loop that cools the peltiers that cool the water.

Has anyone here done someting like this?

And thanks for the help so far everyone!
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Old 02-10-03, 10:27 PM Thread Starter   #6
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LoLZ now I would need to fit all of this into a Lian Li PC-65 or SuperFlower 201B!

Maybe a PC-70 would work well .... but then that's more money!
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Old 02-10-03, 10:50 PM   #7
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THAT FIRST ARTICLE IN LINKAGE IS COMPLETE JUNK. It is a good rule of thumb to follow that if an author says in an article, and i quote - "Whoop-dee-f*ckin-doo", you can completely and wholly discard his input. be careful what you read, it is essential to be a critical reader on today's internet. a .5 degree decrease is very considerable if you consider that the pelt did that in a split second while the water passed through ONCE! if you have the water continuously passing over the pelt chiller it will continue to cool the water more and more until the pelt and water reach equilibrium temperature.

in order to discover for yourselves what the key is to improveing upon this seemingly small increase i suggest reading my somewhat lengthy post in this thread: http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...hreadid=166200
it discusses how heat transfer takes place. You do not want to slow the water down so the molecules are in contact longer, you simply want more molecules to interact and exchange heat. New molecules have higher temperature differentials and contribute more to faster heat transfer than stagnant molecules.

wymjym had created a successful pelt chiller that he controls so it stays at a consistent 8C to prevent condensation. very nice implementation done with two water loops, one cooling the cpu, one cooling the hotside of the peltier - expensive setup though if it would not have been done primarily with spare parts as he did it. details can be had through this link: http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...ot+too+extreme

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Old 02-10-03, 11:56 PM Thread Starter   #8
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I would like to do something like wymjym did ... I just need to think about how I'll power the peltiers and make everything look good!

Thanks A Lot! I am very excited now!

But I'm still waiting for my pump to come so I can test out my new watercooling system ...
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Old 02-14-03, 12:02 AM   #9
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what would happen if you reversed the power on a pelt water block and tried to make that a water chiller.
Do you think the hot side could be dissipated with a heatsink and fan? wonder how it would work?
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Old 02-14-03, 01:48 PM   #10
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IMOG is 100% correct. The guy at Pro Cooling should have been more patient and installed the blocks in recirculating manner in his system.

I have done something similar and using two 120W pelts keep my CPU at around 10-15C at all times. I have a boatload of pictures that I am getting around to uploading to my website.

I'll post a link back here when I get them up.

These chillers DO work and very well if they are used in a recirculating manner.
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Old 02-14-03, 03:41 PM Thread Starter   #11
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Jstic, do you have a peltier on your CPU as well or just the 2 120W pelts chilling the water? as are you using a dual loop water cooling system with water to cool the hot side of the water chiller or are you using heatsink and fans to cool the hot side?

And Jstic, are you using a radiator as well as this water chiller in the cold loop?

Any information about building on of these would be great because I can't find too much information on google.

Thanks.
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Old 02-14-03, 03:56 PM Thread Starter   #12
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Also, would putting one or two heatsinks into the top or your resevor and have the peltier cool them and have your other water loop cool these ... hummm, just another idea.
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Old 02-14-03, 04:35 PM   #13
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Eddie, my system is two loops. I have two copper custom made chiller blocks. Two pelts between the chiller blocks. The hot side of the blocks has a radiator and two Panaflo 120mm fans in the loop, as well as a reservoir. The cold side consists of the cold chiller block, a custom made CPU waterblock and custom made Northbridge block.

The cold side also has a special copper reservoir which has two 5V pelts keeping it cold, there is another copper block on the hotside of these pelts which is in the hot loop. No need for a pelt. on the CPU as my temps are too cold as it is. Also, no radiator is needed for the cold side, it would probably increase temps. I am not interested in subzero temps and having to deal with tons of condensation. I never really believed that subzero will give you that much more of an overclock.

It's funny you asked about the heatsinks on the reservoir and using pelts, because that is essentially what I have, but I don't use a heatsink to cool the hot side of the pelts, I use a block.

Believe it or not, this setup only cost me about $100 without the pelts. I made everything myself and kept costs down. The 4 pelts ran about another $110.

I can sustain 10-15C in the winter time, even under load. In the summer when my computer room gets warmer, I get 15-20C temps.

Only real problem is that on humid days in the summer, I sometimes have to power off one pelt. as condensation starts to form.

I can email you some pics. if you like.
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Old 02-14-03, 04:52 PM Thread Starter   #14
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Sure, some pics would be great! I would love to do something like this ... Predator412@hotmail.com is my e-mail.

Now, with condensation can't you just insulate your motherboard and other components so that moisture doesn't collect? or is it more complicated than this?

And having a radiator on the cold line would raise the water temperature on the cold loop? I never thought of that ... thanks.
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Old 02-14-03, 06:24 PM   #15
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pics please!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-14-03, 07:34 PM   #16
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Jstic

What size are ypur pelts? What you describe is very similar to what I was thinking except use 8 x 65w pelts for a very large surface area and small heatsinks on the cool side into the res. Then air cool the hot side with very large heatsinks and quiet 120mm fans..... but your water idea sound very interesting

Yes, I would also like to see pics! ab.howard@sympatico.ca

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Old 02-14-03, 09:05 PM Thread Starter   #17
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Also, how much preformance would you loose if the Hot/Cold blocks were made of aluminum instead of copper? Lots or not much?

I like this idea because It means that maybe all of the components in my computer that are watercooled [ CPU, GPU, NB ] would get better than ambient cooling. LoLZ and my Black Ice Extreme wouldn't go to waste

Last edited by EdDiE_20o3; 02-14-03 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 02-14-03, 10:26 PM   #18
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I would like to cool my water from 80F to 60F. I don't I'm asking for a whole lot.
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Old 02-15-03, 02:33 PM   #19
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Here are some pics guys, dialuppers be warned though, some are big, sorry.

These are the first blocks I made.



These are the second set, an improved version.

Inside second set

Inside again, just before soldering top

Second blocks in computer sorry, not the greatest pic. Cold side is insulated.

Copper chill tank

Inside of tank


Tank has two pelts on the outside of it and another copper waterblock to cool the hotside of the pelts.

I will upload some more pics to my ISP at some point in the near future and post some more info if anyone is interested.Inside of first blocks
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Old 02-15-03, 02:41 PM   #20
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Eddie, yes I could insulate my board and the socket and the blocks, but it's a big PITA. Maybe one day I'll try it and throw another pelt right on the CPU and go subzero.

My water temps on the cold side are around 7-10C so if I put a radiator in the loop, the radiator being at ambient temp. would actually raise the water temp.

Brian, I tried heatsinks in the very beginning and they just could not handle the heat of the pelts, once I went to waterblocks the difference was incredible. Heatsinks are good for very small pelts, maybe up to 30W or so, at least in my opinion.

davekusa, you could easily get 60F water temps with less than what I am doing.

BTW, if any of you guys are interested, I am considering selling the first set of copper chiller blocks I made. They have been sitting on a shelf for 6 months now and it doesn't look like I am going to use them.

Again, I'll try to get some more pics up soon for anyone interested.
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