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sourskittles

Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2002
I had some questions about servers. Could I run a server at home and host people's website for money? What about bandwidth? What would be good parts for a server? Could I run a server on my Cable internet? I have some more questions about servers but I can't remember them. Please post all you know about setting up a server.
 
Most ISP's state that you are not allowed to run a server, and most likely your upload speed is capped at a pretty low speed, much lower than your download.... so technically it is possible, but not very effectively.
 
JDXNC said:
Most ISP's state that you are not allowed to run a server, and most likely your upload speed is capped at a pretty low speed, much lower than your download.... so technically it is possible, but not very effectively.
But do the majority of ISP allow you to run a server if you ask them to. And if they did would they give you more bandwidth and better down and upload speeds? Or would I be better off by getting a T1 or T3 if it's available in my area?
 
If you're hosting for money, you'll need to get a T-1 or better, depending on your expected traffic.
The cable supplier will promptly pull the plug on you if you try hosting from their pipeline, and maybe even call their lawyers.
They seem to have no sense of humor about their services being used for somone else's profit...they want it all.
 
sourskittles said:

But do the majority of ISP allow you to run a server if you ask them to. And if they did would they give you more bandwidth and better down and upload speeds? Or would I be better off by getting a T1 or T3 if it's available in my area?

Yeah if you can get T3 go for it, itll be worth it in the long run :)
 
One adivse for you. Do a research on the stats of this business ;) ANd dont blame us if you cant find any customer or losing money.

Thank you and good luck
 
hmm, well you could probably get 3 DSL connection that up @ 50KB/sec peice for like 120/month, i think t1 is atleast a grand a month ? and t3 obviously more
 
I know our local cable company looks once a month for servers - they do a port scan :p Then they will prosecute as stipulated in the signed contract.
 
I'm pretty sure (of course, check to make sure I'm right . . .) that cable companies WILL let you run a server, just not as a simple Home installation (and subscription). Call the cable provider and ask if they do business accounts, and whether or not those people are permitted to run servers. I know Road Runner does business class installations, and I know they let you run servers, because one of my relatives runs a small business (as does his wife . . . two businesses in one building on one connection, but they're small, and they only employ like 3 people [including themselves:p ]) and runs a server as part of it, which hosts his website. They use Road Runner. Now, if your goal is to run multiple sites, you're going to quickly run into trouble, unless it's just a few people who got tired of Geocities's ads and space limitations. First of all, websites can get extremely big, and sometimes expand at very rapid speeds. If any one of those people wants to have some sort of database, your machine is going to have to be a lot more powerful than, say, a K6-2. If you want to run Forums software (like what O/C Forums uses), you'll need happy hardware too. If they're going to be high traffic sites, you'll need a fast computer and fast connection. Business class installations offer faster speeds, I believe, but they also cost more, and they're not on par with T1 or T3, of course. Also, it's probably going to depend on what the site/server does. I'm not sure if a business class installation allows the owner to make money off of it. They can host a website, but I don't know if they can charge people to do it for them. Here's a few questions you need to know the answer to:

-How much are you charging?
-Is it like people giving you subsidies to help pay for the cost of the connection and, as a service to them, you just offer to host their site, or is it "you pay me __ bucks a month and I'll host your site"? I think Mr. CableProvider would be more happy with option number one, rather than option number two.
-Exactly what are you going to be doing?
-How do you plan to operate?
-Do you have potential customers already lined up?
-Do you know how many you'll have (will there be a limit)?
-What kind of guarantees are you making?
-Can you GUARANTEE better (or, at least, constant) service?
-What kind of security can you offer?
-How much can you afford? You have to spend money to make money.

Because of all I said above, consider this:

If you're running a powerful enough server to do all that, I would strongly suggest (at least) Athlon MPs (in dual, of course). If you want higher end, get Xeons, but they cost a lot more. If you're going with less powerful, consider either a dual PIII or a single high-end Athlon. Perhaps you can be a tester of a new Opteron system for us all?

If you offer security (which you should, because it's the appropriate thing to do, as well as keeps YOU safe [from lawsuits or viruses]), things can get really expensive, real fast. You'll want a gigabit ethernet connection if you're going high end, or perhaps dual 10/100s. You'll need a router capable of gigabit if you go that route, as well as a GOOD firewall no matter what you get. You might also consider investing in security software, which gets more expensive the better it gets.

If you already have broadband, you're probably paying between ~35 to 70 or 80 dollars depending on what you have and where you live (that's US dollars, by the by). I would guess no less than twice that for a business class installation, and it could easily be three or four times that. I would highly doubt you could find it for less than 150 a month, and that would probably be really craptastic stuff.

If you go Linux, software will be pretty cheap (depending on what your customers want). If you go Windows, you're looking at a lot more, and you might have monthly costs associated with some of it, like forums software (which I believe has a one time payment option as well, but if you don't use it for more than a few years, you're wasting a lot of money).

Now, if these people are just ex-Geocities folks, looking for someplace to store their Bios, favorite links, maybe a little information (like documents and things), then you're not looking at nearly this much money. But, no matter who your customer is, you're going to have to be very clear about stipulating rules. You have to ensure that you provide adequate (and constant) security. You have to make sure they maintain that security by not "lending" your service to others. You need to make sure what THEY'RE doing on YOUR server is LEGAL. Storing MP3s and warez and such on one's server these days is NOT, I repeat not a good idea. It's not legal and it can get you (and them) in trouble. If you're going high-end here and your customers are high-end too, and you can't provide what you agree to, you might have problems there too. Legal fees can cost a lot. Rumors about bad service can drive away business.

Initial costs for a good (read fast) server, fast internet, software, secuirty, etc. are going to be around:

1.5 to 3 or 4 thousand for a computer (depending on Xeon, MP, PIII, Opteron use, as well as amount and type of RAM [which you'll need a lot of], hard drive space and speed/interface [IDE/SCSI/SATA] [which you'll also need a lot of at good speeds], network cards [gigabit costs a lot], video card(s), monitor(s), keyboard, mouse, speakers [where you can probably skimp a whole lot]).

No less than 1800 dollars a year (assuming 150 dollars a month, which you probably won't find) for internet access, although that figure might go easily up to 5000 dollars a year. I don't know how they do business class installations, but I BELIEVE that they are custom taylored to one's needs. So if all you're looking to do is provide a server, and not let 300 employees surf the 'net and play internet games all day, my figures here might be completely off.

Software is an area where I simply can't guess, but it will range from free to a few hundred dollars, more if you need software which has a montly rate.

Security and network gear could cost as little as 100 dollars (if you skimp, which is not suggested, as you're the responsible party). At the very least, you NEED a hardware firewall. If you go the gigabit route, you might get up into the thousands as well, although I doubt you need as many ports as would be provided on a thousand dollar router.

If you add that all up, you are looking at between, I'd say, 4 and 10 thousand dollars as an initial investment, which includes assumed cost of net access at 1800 dollars a year and an extremely cheap computer/security/software setup at the cheap end, extremely costly setup at the other end of the 10,000 dollar spectrum. If you run into problems, you NEED a reserve of money, because downtime is your ENEMY and lawsuits don't wait until you have money.

If this is going to turn into a business, I suggest that you look VERY VERY DEEPLY at the involved costs and risks before you act. If it's a hobby for a few friends who just hate Geocities and want to help you out with the expense of a faster 'net connection, the pros outweigh the cons by a great deal, assuming what you're doing is LEGAL, both in the eyes of the cable company, as well as what ends up ON the server.

I'd say the whole subject is in the grey . . . I'd stay away from it simply because I doubt it's worth the trouble, even if the only money it costs you is for a cheap server (say 1000 dollars, assuming you skip the older stuff like K6-2s). If anything, assist people in setting up their own for a fee. It saves you the cost of a connection and you still make money. If you're doing this with the added benefit of a faster connection for you too, then I guess my proposal probably doesn't work.

That's my 2 cents (USD), even if it does look like more than just a few cents.

Hope I didn't scare ya', but I like to provide the worst case scenario as well as the best when it comes to making decisions that could CONCEIVABLY have bad consequences.

Best of luck, and I hope I helped

Z

*edit* If my numbers seem rediculously high to anyone, remember that I was tryong to go on both ends of the spectrum. Anyone can make a cheap server for their house for a few hundred bucks. And if that's all you need, that's fine. I just provided both sides because you haven't yet given any specifics of your operation. For all I know, you want to host corporate website . . .:p
 
Last edited:
Hehe . . . I thought that was a little long . . .

Perhaps a condensed version might be in order?

Ready?

DON'T DO IT . . . IT'S NOT WORTH IT, unless it's going to be some K6-2 server and your friends are simply paying for the cable bill. If you stand to make a profit, the cable company probably won't be happy. Make sure it's legal before you do it and make sure your friends don't put illegal material on the server or "lend" your service to another friend . . .

Z
 
I've decided not to get T1. I'll stick with my ISP for now. But I was thinking of maybe running a server for CS for my friends because they're CS addicts. And I wanted to learn about running servers so I could use my experience as a service to others. So I think I'm gonna start small with an Athlon MP setup first and upgrade as I go along, while researching into this stuff. But When I am able to upgrade to an Opteron (sp) for example, I'll start asking if some companies need a server to host their site, and do some file hosting for people. But how can I make money right now without actually having equipment, like by helping people set up a server. Where can I learn about helping people setting up high-end servers and giving them services for setting up servers. If you don't understand anything in my post please ask me because I typed really fast.
 
zachj said:
I'm pretty sure (of course, check to make sure I'm right . . .) that cable companies WILL let you run a server, just not as a simple Home installation (and subscription). Call the cable provider and ask if they do business accounts, and whether or not those people are permitted to run servers. I know Road Runner does business class installations, and I know they let you run servers, because one of my relatives runs a small business (as does his wife . . . two businesses in one building on one connection, but they're small, and they only employ like 3 people [including themselves:p ]) and runs a server as part of it, which hosts his website. They use Road Runner. Now, if your goal is to run multiple sites, you're going to quickly run into trouble, unless it's just a few people who got tired of Geocities's ads and space limitations. First of all, websites can get extremely big, and sometimes expand at very rapid speeds. If any one of those people wants to have some sort of database, your machine is going to have to be a lot more powerful than, say, a K6-2. If you want to run Forums software (like what O/C Forums uses), you'll need happy hardware too. If they're going to be high traffic sites, you'll need a fast computer and fast connection. Business class installations offer faster speeds, I believe, but they also cost more, and they're not on par with T1 or T3, of course. Also, it's probably going to depend on what the site/server does. I'm not sure if a business class installation allows the owner to make money off of it. They can host a website, but I don't know if they can charge people to do it for them. Here's a few questions you need to know the answer to:

-How much are you charging?
-Is it like people giving you subsidies to help pay for the cost of the connection and, as a service to them, you just offer to host their site, or is it "you pay me __ bucks a month and I'll host your site"? I think Mr. CableProvider would be more happy with option number one, rather than option number two.
-Exactly what are you going to be doing?
-How do you plan to operate?
-Do you have potential customers already lined up?
-Do you know how many you'll have (will there be a limit)?
-What kind of guarantees are you making?
-Can you GUARANTEE better (or, at least, constant) service?
-What kind of security can you offer?
-How much can you afford? You have to spend money to make money.

Because of all I said above, consider this:

If you're running a powerful enough server to do all that, I would strongly suggest (at least) Athlon MPs (in dual, of course). If you want higher end, get Xeons, but they cost a lot more. If you're going with less powerful, consider either a dual PIII or a single high-end Athlon. Perhaps you can be a tester of a new Opteron system for us all?

If you offer security (which you should, because it's the appropriate thing to do, as well as keeps YOU safe [from lawsuits or viruses]), things can get really expensive, real fast. You'll want a gigabit ethernet connection if you're going high end, or perhaps dual 10/100s. You'll need a router capable of gigabit if you go that route, as well as a GOOD firewall no matter what you get. You might also consider investing in security software, which gets more expensive the better it gets.

If you already have broadband, you're probably paying between ~35 to 70 or 80 dollars depending on what you have and where you live (that's US dollars, by the by). I would guess no less than twice that for a business class installation, and it could easily be three or four times that. I would highly doubt you could find it for less than 150 a month, and that would probably be really craptastic stuff.

If you go Linux, software will be pretty cheap (depending on what your customers want). If you go Windows, you're looking at a lot more, and you might have monthly costs associated with some of it, like forums software (which I believe has a one time payment option as well, but if you don't use it for more than a few years, you're wasting a lot of money).

Now, if these people are just ex-Geocities folks, looking for someplace to store their Bios, favorite links, maybe a little information (like documents and things), then you're not looking at nearly this much money. But, no matter who your customer is, you're going to have to be very clear about stipulating rules. You have to ensure that you provide adequate (and constant) security. You have to make sure they maintain that security by not "lending" your service to others. You need to make sure what THEY'RE doing on YOUR server is LEGAL. Storing MP3s and warez and such on one's server these days is NOT, I repeat not a good idea. It's not legal and it can get you (and them) in trouble. If you're going high-end here and your customers are high-end too, and you can't provide what you agree to, you might have problems there too. Legal fees can cost a lot. Rumors about bad service can drive away business.

Initial costs for a good (read fast) server, fast internet, software, secuirty, etc. are going to be around:

1.5 to 3 or 4 thousand for a computer (depending on Xeon, MP, PIII, Opteron use, as well as amount and type of RAM [which you'll need a lot of], hard drive space and speed/interface [IDE/SCSI/SATA] [which you'll also need a lot of at good speeds], network cards [gigabit costs a lot], video card(s), monitor(s), keyboard, mouse, speakers [where you can probably skimp a whole lot]).

No less than 1800 dollars a year (assuming 150 dollars a month, which you probably won't find) for internet access, although that figure might go easily up to 5000 dollars a year. I don't know how they do business class installations, but I BELIEVE that they are custom taylored to one's needs. So if all you're looking to do is provide a server, and not let 300 employees surf the 'net and play internet games all day, my figures here might be completely off.

Software is an area where I simply can't guess, but it will range from free to a few hundred dollars, more if you need software which has a montly rate.

Security and network gear could cost as little as 100 dollars (if you skimp, which is not suggested, as you're the responsible party). At the very least, you NEED a hardware firewall. If you go the gigabit route, you might get up into the thousands as well, although I doubt you need as many ports as would be provided on a thousand dollar router.

If you add that all up, you are looking at between, I'd say, 4 and 10 thousand dollars as an initial investment, which includes assumed cost of net access at 1800 dollars a year and an extremely cheap computer/security/software setup at the cheap end, extremely costly setup at the other end of the 10,000 dollar spectrum. If you run into problems, you NEED a reserve of money, because downtime is your ENEMY and lawsuits don't wait until you have money.

If this is going to turn into a business, I suggest that you look VERY VERY DEEPLY at the involved costs and risks before you act. If it's a hobby for a few friends who just hate Geocities and want to help you out with the expense of a faster 'net connection, the pros outweigh the cons by a great deal, assuming what you're doing is LEGAL, both in the eyes of the cable company, as well as what ends up ON the server.

I'd say the whole subject is in the grey . . . I'd stay away from it simply because I doubt it's worth the trouble, even if the only money it costs you is for a cheap server (say 1000 dollars, assuming you skip the older stuff like K6-2s). If anything, assist people in setting up their own for a fee. It saves you the cost of a connection and you still make money. If you're doing this with the added benefit of a faster connection for you too, then I guess my proposal probably doesn't work.

That's my 2 cents (USD), even if it does look like more than just a few cents.

Hope I didn't scare ya', but I like to provide the worst case scenario as well as the best when it comes to making decisions that could CONCEIVABLY have bad consequences.

Best of luck, and I hope I helped

Z

*edit* If my numbers seem rediculously high to anyone, remember that I was tryong to go on both ends of the spectrum. Anyone can make a cheap server for their house for a few hundred bucks. And if that's all you need, that's fine. I just provided both sides because you haven't yet given any specifics of your operation. For all I know, you want to host corporate website . . .:p
Those numbers are scary. I'm gonna have nightmares.:D
 
Hehe . . .

By helping others set up a server, all I mean is that you pick out the hardware and build it for them and install the software and set it all up and they pay you for your time. I mean, a Counter Strike server doesn't need to be THAT powerful unless it's going to host a lot of players. A simple MP will serve that up very well. All you need to do is install Windows and set up the CS server . . . Not that hard. And then your friends can simply pay you for the service you provided. If you're moving into hosting cmpanies' websites, those prices should scare you. If you can't provide those things, DO NOT START SERVING FOR COMPANIES. You can get sued by them, the law (if the companies do something illegal), they can spread rumors about bad service, you might lose all your money, file for bankruptcy, etc.. Those are things you don't want to have to deal with. Stay small is my advise . . .

Z
 
zachj said:
Hehe . . .

By helping others set up a server, all I mean is that you pick out the hardware and build it for them and install the software and set it all up and they pay you for your time. I mean, a Counter Strike server doesn't need to be THAT powerful unless it's going to host a lot of players. A simple MP will serve that up very well. All you need to do is install Windows and set up the CS server . . . Not that hard. And then your friends can simply pay you for the service you provided. If you're moving into hosting cmpanies' websites, those prices should scare you. If you can't provide those things, DO NOT START SERVING FOR COMPANIES. You can get sued by them, the law (if the companies do something illegal), they can spread rumors about bad service, you might lose all your money, file for bankruptcy, etc.. Those are things you don't want to have to deal with. Stay small is my advise . . .

Z
Would a company buy my equipment for me if I hosted their stuff for free? Sortof like sponsoring me to help me get up and running and I pay them back by not charging them?:confused:
 
I think the company, if faced with that situation would probably be better off just hosting it for themselves. Any company of size will already have a business class installation. As a service to others, you'll need to approach them all ready to go. If you hand them a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" proposal, they'll probably just laugh.

What exactly are you trying to do here? Is this supposed to give you a little pocket money? Is this supposed to turn into a full-time business?

I think anything beyond hosting for friends is going to be out of your reach . . .

And if a company baught your setup for you, they'd probably take it with them if they left you, and they might not take too kindly to you offering their stuff to other people . . .

Z
 
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