Radeon 9500 becomes (more) hobbled 9500 Pro

zachj · May 3, 2003

I don't know if anyone ahs already noticed this or not, but I did search the forums before posting. . .

It seems that ATI has quietly change the Radeon 9500 from a 256bit memory interface to a 128bit interface without saying anything? If you look online, at Newegg, for instance, you'll notice that every one of them has a 128bit memory interface. But it used to be that you could mod a 9500 into a 9700Pro because they were the same minus 4 pipelines which could be enabled in one of three(?) ways. XBitLabs makes quite the point about saying the 9500 has a 256bit memory interface. But, if it has a 128bit memory interface, then this procedure is no longer possible.

What's the deal? Did ATI quietly modify the card to keep this procedure from working? Did it never work? Are all the stores wrong in advertising 128bit interfaces? Sure, the 9500 was designed to be a step down from the 9500Pro. But it already was. Now it's even more so . . .

Am I really dense, or has stuff really changed?

Z

james.miller · May 3, 2003

this happend a long time ago. it just that now the 256bit cards are becoming harder and harder to find, it's now more apparent. But, in reality, its been hapening for months.

zachj · May 3, 2003

Well . . . I didn't really think it was "new" in the sense that nobody knew about it or that it just started happening, but nobody's been talking about it to my recollection. I believe they've still got some of the 256bit cards at mwave.

Z

funnyperson1 · May 3, 2003

THe 9500 was always supposed to have a 128 bit interface. The only reason the 9700 mod was possible is because Ati had extra 9700 pcbs they wanted to use. If you had a 256bit 9500 it still acted as if it were 128 bit unless you did the mod.

Rocko[DPC] · May 3, 2003

Yea, they were all 128 bit before the mod. Anyone who advertises a 256 bit 9500 is advertising falsely (unless they hard modded it successfully).

Moddable ones are still available and not too difficult to find. Newegg has the Sapphire one for $165. It also has the powercooler one

There are still a lot around, you just have to know what youre looking for.

bigfoot · May 4, 2003

here's a hint to tell you what is what, a 9500 that has the memory in a straigt line has a 128 bit memory bus hardware wise, if you got a 9500 w/ the mamory in an right angle, you have 256 bit memory that is beying limited, so a mod would turn that into a 9700, a 9500 w/ the mamory in a straight line can only become a 9500 pro at most.

Evnas · May 4, 2003

Rocko[DPC] said:
Yea, they were all 128 bit before the mod. Anyone who advertises a 256 bit 9500 is advertising falsely

Actually if a memory bus is 256bit, its 256bit no matter what (unless you remove half the memory). Its impossible to change a memory bus from 128bit to 256bit unless of course you can physically add the traces into the PCB.

zachj · May 4, 2003

Okay, well then who here thinks I got screwed?

Here's the link to the MWave ATI 9500 128MB cards. The bottom one says 256bit and "while supplies last".

If you go to Power Color's website, here , you'll notice that the RAM chips are in a straight line.

I'm thinking that, firstly, since it says 256 bit, it has to be or else I can at least send it back saying they didn't send me what I bought. Secondly, since it says "while supplies last", I take that as "we're not getting any more of these". I guess there's a chance that I did get screwed, but what do you all think? I've got the weekend to cancel the order, I think. . .

Is that a good card, assuming it is the 256bit version, or am I a real dingus??

Z

*Edit* Also, I checked reseller ratings just to make sure and they look like a respectable company, and my cousin told me about them. But is it strange that I haven't received any confirmation of my purchase or my registration? I personally think so . . . Has anyone here dealt with them?

Rocko[DPC] · May 4, 2003

Yea mwave is a great company, and I've ordered literally thousands of dollars of stuff from them in the past. That card is prolly a power color with the memory in the L shape on the 9700 board. But that doesnt mean your mod will be successful. Newegg sells that same card.

As far as the power color brand goes... nobody really likes them. Generally because they use slow memory and clock cards lower than they actually should be with special names. You might buy a power color 9700 ultra pro (I dont know if they really call it this) that is really an ATI 9700np. But if you get the card, and it mods successfully, then I would say it is worth it.

The card has half the pipelines disabled when you get it. Until you enable them with the mod, it is pretty much the same as having a 128 bit bus. Once you enable them (if successful) it will be the same as a 9700np with 256 bit bus.

zachj · May 4, 2003

I don't care about clocks, just getting all the features (256bit interface and 8 pipelines). If it doesn't overclock very well, I assume those features will still make the card better than stock, correct?

Z

Evnas · May 4, 2003

zachj said:
I don't care about clocks, just getting all the features (256bit interface and 8 pipelines).

8 pipelines isnt a feature of the 9500...and technically, they didnt do anything wrong. Notice this line at the bottom of every page...

All prices and specifications are subject to change without notice.

james.miller · May 4, 2003

they didnt even change the specs. of the r9500np's. they have always, and will always, be 128bit, 4 pipeline cards. thats the reason the extra 4 pipelines were disabled on the moddable 9500np, because otherwise they wouldn't have been non pros at all.

Even after they changed the 9500np's over to the 128bit pcb's, they still kept the same specs, only now the 4 extra pipeline are gone completly, rather than just disabled. Either way, they are still 9500non pro's and they have kept the same specs from day one.

Shade00 · May 4, 2003

The 9500 may have been 128-bit by design, but the 9500 non-pro cards that used the 9700 PCB did indeed have 256-bit memory pathways. The full 256-bit pathways were also utilized by the card; that was just the physical design of the card.

zachj · May 4, 2003

I didn't say they said it had 8 pipelines. I said that all I want is that the mod will enable the other four. They didn't say it has 8 pipelines. And I know that they're not responsible for false information. But there is reason to believe I'm getting what it says . . .

Can anyone answer this: Is this, from the information given, what I want? Should I cancel the order?

Z

breez · May 4, 2003

james.miller said:
they didnt even change the specs. of the r9500np's. they have always, and will always, be 128bit, 4 pipeline cards. thats the reason the extra 4 pipelines were disabled on the moddable 9500np, because otherwise they wouldn't have been non pros at all.

Even after they changed the 9500np's over to the 128bit pcb's, they still kept the same specs, only now the 4 extra pipeline are gone completly, rather than just disabled. Either way, they are still 9500non pro's and they have kept the same specs from day one.

9500 non-Pro cards on 128-bit PCB have the same 8 pipelines with 4 of them disabled. You can still try to mod any non-pro to 9500Pro.

---------------------------------------------------------

Non-pros with 256-bit bus have the 256-bit bus from the beginning even without the mods. It's just that a 4 pipeline chip gets 0% from 256bit vs 128bit. The speed boost comes fully from enabling the other 4 pipelines. Theoretically that's 100% boost.

zachj · May 4, 2003

While I appreciate everyone's attempts to clarify information, the question at hand is very important, as my item probably ships out tomorrow. Beyond that, I can't cancel my order. I'm not trying to be rude or mean, but my question is urgent.

What should I do? What do you all think I'm getting. Click the links to look at what the page is selling.

Z

zachj · May 4, 2003

Is the Power Color card bad? What would be better? Newegg has a Sapphire card with the RAM in an L shape, although I doubt that the picture necessarily represents what's being sold. They've got a picture of a r1.2 M7NCG but they sell a r1.4 which is totally different.

Z

zachj · May 4, 2003

Okay . . . I went and searched the forums for "Power Color" and decided to go ahead and cancel my order. I hope it gets through. Even if it was a good card, I'd rather not take my chances. When I get confirmation, I'll buy the Sapphire card from Newegg. I hope that I don't have to cancel my order from the email address I ordered it using . . . I gave them my Customer ID, though, so I doubt it matters. Thanks for the info, though . . .

Z

zachj · May 5, 2003

Is Sapphire the card to go with, then? Is there a better one to go with than the Sapphire? Would a "Made by ATI" be better?

Also, does the software trick void one's warranty? While there is no determinable change to the hardware, it is still overclocking . . .

Thanks

Z

bigfoot · May 5, 2003

Sorry zachj for all the confusing stuff, it was a good thing that you cancled the order because it's better to be safe than sorry, heres my point of view, the power color 9500 Pro @ non-Pro were both canged to the 128bit memory layout a couple revs back, i havent seen anything anywhere saying that there still making the 9500's on 9700 boards. So here's what to do, notice that newegg is selling to different 9500 non-pro's. thats because, sapphire figured out a while back that they should make a few extra on the 9700 boards for those modders like us. (Thats got to be the coolist thing i've seen in a while) anyways, ouder the one w/ the memory in the L shape and you'l be able to have a 9700 non-Pro w/ the soft-mod, if you overclock it, you'l esentially have a 9700 Pro...

Hope I helped you, and hopefully what I said was right...

Oh, and by the way, breez nailed it right on the head, what he said was Exactly correct.

Radeon 9500 becomes (more) hobbled 9500 Pro

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