Two Pumps + 2 Rads & a lot of trouble

Hello all ...


Well, i finished with my new WC setup to cool my server passif, but as you may guess, trouble in chinatown

My setup is like this:

2 * 1048 Eheim pumps
2 * 360 mm radiator's (Watercool HTF2-Triple)
1 * Tank-O-Matic PLUGON (the large version)
1 * InnovaGraph-O-Matic (GPU)
1 * InnovaCOOL rev3.0 (CPU)
10mm / 14 mm outside cable.

Note: the set is equipt with 8mm connector's but this is no real problem, i have a single pump & rad setup in my main pc working perfect (and quite), with the same 10mm cable's.


Reservoir (attached to) -> Pump 1 -> Rad 1 -> CPU -> Pump 2 -> Rad 2 -> GPU -> Reservoir

So i filled up my system, so far so good, the pumps made a lot of sound, but this is nothing new (bubble's). First i filled up the reservoir, activated pump 1, stoped the pump when it almost ran out of water in the reservoir, filled again, repeat until there was a water flow in the system.

I noticed that i got a vortex in my reservoir becouse of the sheer power of the 2 pumps on at the same time (sucking air in). But a little of that blue filter/sponch material at the top of the water fixed that.

The real problem come's from the fact that both bumps still make a lot of racked.

When i disable 1 of them (pump 1 - reservoir), pump 2 still make's sound like it's air filled. After about every god possible move that i know, it still is not quite. Sometime's it calm's to down to silend and seven seconds later or so, you get the sound of a air filled pump again (not: never saw any air entering the pump).

And you can guess, disaster strike's 2 time's. The pump connected to the reservoir, also make a lot of sound (with pump 2 down). Almost like water gushing in (a indication of air trapped).

Activating both has the same effect (both had the same sound).

I mean, jesus, give me a break, after so many hourse, still the sound isent gone (its a bit quiter at time's and other time's it goes up).

Like you can guess, after 2 day's searching i'm almost gone nuts, and in need of a bit of advice (or a hammer ), any of both is ok


I tried all the tricks in the book, making the pumps see all the side's and angle's of the room (and some new one's), the blow blokking for a sec by pressing the line.


I read on a other forum one time that some radiator's have a problem with pumps pushing water in, and sinds these are some big radiator's, the natural question come's, do i need to reverse the waterflow (sucking from the radiator's instait).

Or is it the reservoir holding me back

I don't have a clue anymore

You've got more than one problem going on.

#1: the added pumping pressure may be causing the flow to reach a point where the tubing becomes a significant restriction. you ought to try to find a way to adapt 1/2" tubing.

#2: the Eheim 1048 can rattle, until you apply the impeller mod: glue it to the shaft (someone post a link?). this rattle appears in very restrictive loops.

#3: you might consider putting the rads in parallel, for a lower restriction, if that's not the case already. Performance shouldn't be affected.

Good luck.

Interesting.

I was think of putting the system like this, i made up a few theorie's:


1.

Reservoir (attached) -> Pump 1 -> Y1 ( dual Rad's) Y2 -> Pump 2 -> CPU -> GPU -> Back to reservoir & Pump 1

2.

Reservoir (attached) -> Pump 1 -> Y1 ( dual Rad's) Y2 -> CPU -> GPU -> Pump 2 -> Back to reservoir & Pump 1

3.

Reservoir (attached) -> Pump 1 -> Y1 ( dual Rad's) -> CPU & GPU (each on there own rad) -> Y2 Pump 2 -> Back to reservoir & Pump 1

Y1 & Y2 = Splitters.

(3) looks the most logical to me. The reservoir's cooled down water flows over the gpu & the cpu in parallel, then the low pressure water (losing a lot of pressure from the GPU & CPU) will come back to a Y (2). Pump 2 & 1 increase the flow, then the flow goes over Y (1) into the rad's (losing flow again) to the GPU & CPU & repeat.

The big question is ofcourse, if the 2 Y's slow down the pressure down enouf to prevent the 1048 pumps from ratteling.

Btw: Performence wont suffer to mutch i think. With 1 pump running (and ratteling grrrr), the system temp on a 2.4Ghz P4 + Radion 9500 was 36° after 2.5h running. There was almost no increase when running 3Dmark2001. The system holds about 1.4l water. So in theorie the Y wont be a problem when both pump works, ofcouse in theorie my current setup doesent produce any sound, what we now know isent true

If you do split the line for the rads you will have more water spending more time in the rads (which is desirable) right?

Some suggestions

You might want to check the connections at the pump inlets. If they are loose air can actually be "sucked" into the pumps. I would run the pumps in parallel because pumps in series increase the pressure not the flow. Essentially, two pumps in parallel with a Y add twice the flow area and hence, close to twice the flow.

O

Re: Some suggestions

Owenator said:

You might want to check the connections at the pump inlets. If they are loose air can actually be "sucked" into the pumps. I would run the pumps in parallel because pumps in series increase the pressure not the flow. Essentially, two pumps in parallel with a Y add twice the flow area and hence, close to twice the flow.

O

Click to expand...

So you mean something like this:


Pump 1 -> ____________ -> Rad 1
_________ Y -> Y ->
Pump 2 -> ____________ -> Rad 2

So to creating a chock point? Sorry if i misunderstand it, but your last sentence has me a bit confused ...

Actually what I meant was more like


Res -> Y -> Pump 1 -> Rad 1 -> Y -> CPU
'''''''''''''''''''''-> Pump 2 -> Rad 2 -> Y ->

What I tried to make was one Res then a Y each pump going to it's own rad and then a Y combining the flow to the CPU. Does this make sense? This way there are two times the pump flow. I think you said Pump 1 and 2 are the same and rad 1 and 2 are the same, right? This means that you have two pumps 'worth' flow coming into the CPU.

O

Owenator said:

Actually what I meant was more like


Res -> Y -> Pump 1 -> Rad 1 -> Y -> CPU
'''''''''''''''''''''-> Pump 2 -> Rad 2 -> Y ->

What I tried to make was one Res then a Y each pump going to it's own rad and then a Y combining the flow to the CPU. Does this make sense? This way there are two times the pump flow. I think you said Pump 1 and 2 are the same and rad 1 and 2 are the same, right? This means that you have two pumps 'worth' flow coming into the CPU.

O

Click to expand...

Isent gone work ... The Res = coupled to the Pump 1 & the GPU also needs cooling

Double check that no air is being pulled in from the res. Fill it up a bit more if you can. I found when I was testing my pump in the sink that even though it looked like it was fully submerged in water, it was sucking some air in still.

Just set it up as two separate loops and avoid all the hassles.

Well, here's a update:

I've moved the system to this:

CPU -> ________ -> Pump 1 -> Rad 1 -> CPU
_____ Reservoir
GPU -> ________ -> Pump 2 -> Rad 2 -> GPU


The 2 pumps are now in a big tupperware round tub that holds about 2l at the moment (can take more but i ran out of destilated water ).

Pump 2 is now dead silent
Pump 1 is still ratteling but less sound sinds it's submerged.

Looks like i need to mod Pump 1. Anybody has a link to silence the propellor more?