[Juiblex79]

I am looking to upgrade my current P3 933 system. I have a $1400 budget set for this and I would love to have a nice OC going. I plan to use my existing full tower case, video card, and sound card. So all I really need is a new mother board, cpu, ram, and a larger hard drive(20gb existing), oh and a new power supply i dont think my existing 300 ATX is compatable.

So far this is what I have come up with (prices are from pricewatch.com)

P4 2.8Ghz 800Mhz ($247)
Gigabyte GA-8KNXP($213) OR Abit IC7-G ($128)
2x(2x256) OCZ DDR466 Gold Ed EL CL2 Dual Chan kit($404)
Western Digital 200GB 8MB buffer ($184)
Fortron PS 400W "FSP400-60PFN($63)
Zalman CNPS7000-CU($39) OR Corsair HydroCool($221) OR Thermaltake SubZero4G($113)

What would you do?

[Skiing Squirrel]

With that budget, I would build a dual CPU system.
Motherboard:MSI K7D
RAM:Crucial or something like that registered PC-2700. A gig should do.
CPU(s):2400+'s
Harddrives: 2 raptors in a raid-0 and then a 120 gig for backup/mass storage
PSU:antec trupower 550
Heatsinks: two slk-800's.

Don't get one of those pre-built watercooling kits. I would custom build some, from stores such as dtek or dangerden.

[Juiblex79]

Well I was thinking about a dual cpu system early on but I dont really see the need for it since I wont really be using the system as a workstation. Also I don't beleive dual cpu systems would over clock as well or be as fast for my usuage(games) as a single cpu system would because most dual cpu boards if not all only support slow DDRRAM and it must be registered or ECC. Also those boards dont offer as many features for over clocking. But I'll give a secound look at the system your recomending. Thanks for the input.

[L337 M33P]

SMP > single procs for ANY type of application

Bender has his duallie up to 2.4Ghz I believe, with XP 1700+ modded by closing the L5 bridge or something. read up on the SMP forum, Symmetric multi processing is extremely powerful and within your budget.

[Juiblex79]

Is there a MB without the 64bit PCI slots? I dont think I'll really have a use for them, well maybe one 64bit scsi raid card unless its integrated into the board.

[Bender]

The Dual MP MSI K7D Master-L has 2 64 bit PCI slots. Newegg has the board for $205 shipped!

If you do lots of heavy multi tasking you will want to consider a SMP rig. For under $300 shipped you can have a nice board and 2 XP1700s that will do a bit over 2 GHz each. Currently I have mine up to 2550 MHz with chilled water. Benchmarks are out of this world. I can even manage to get over 5000+ in 3d mark 2003 with a modified R9500.

[JimmyK]

I understand its a big choice, BUT I must admit there is no replacement for a nice smp system. People just dont understand its beuty until they use it.


My ideal system would be a dual 3.06 p4 but thats around 800 dollars (total waste at that price) my second choice which is what Im using right now is a MSI K7D with dual xp1700s running at 2400mhz on air cooling in a TOTALLY silent case. only noise is harddrive noise from my 8mb cahche 120 gig special edition HD.


as you can see from the performance there is absolutley no other option for this kind of horsepower and only a $300 dollar investment all brand new components. haha thats just a few more bucks then that single p4 cip your looking at

[Juiblex79]

OK I read up on SMP and I think I actually like it. So I will get the K7D from MSI. Now a few people have said the get the XP1700+ and some the MP 2400+ why the XP in a SMP? Would it be better to get a higher PR rated processor if I can afford it or is there an overclocking advantage for certian chips?
One more question would it be better to get DDR300 even though DDR266 is the limit for the board(I am not sure how much FSP can be changed in SMP systems) If the FSB can't be changed much then I wouldnt see the purpose in getting the higher rated ram. Do you have an suggestions for low latency Registered DDR266/300 Ram? I already saw Crucial just woundering if you guys and gals had any recomendations? Thanks for all the help so far

[JimmyK]

Juiblex79, one thing I MUST tell you before you go SMP route. you WILL get lower fram rates in your games compared to a p4 running at say 3.2 GHz, BUT it is just not noticable to the eye.

Yet the perfomane boost you will get in just browsing pictures, using your operating system, simple things such as switching from one application to another, and most importantly being able to decode and copy a dvd while playing unreal tournament (ie multitasking) is unbelivable.

Those are the areas where it counts but people always fall back on saying well I get 5 fps more then you, which means absolutlety nothing when your already getting 130 fps, know what I mean?

Well you see the XP 1700s from svc cost only 59 dollars a pop and 100% will hit MP 2600 speeds or in mine and benders case will hit MP3000+ perforamnce easily.

In all honest I have been through many chips from SVC and EVERY SINGLE one has hit 2800 with ease and gone up to 2900-3000 performance.

That specific line of AMD chips from SVC just has the innate ability to overclock much better then even the higher yield chips such as the XP 2400s etc.

The mod is VERY VERY easy to do, just goto autozone buy a defogger kit use tape to block of all the bridges other then the one you need to connect and dab some on it using a toothpick, I have done this mod to maybe 6 pairs meaning about 12 chips and it has taken me no more then 2-3 mins per chip.

I recommend getting the pc2700 so you may run your comptuer at 150 fsb instead of 133, might as well squeeze every last bit of performance out of it.

It feels so nice to have a machine with so much horsepower and knowing I DIDN'T blow so much money on it. The moeny I saved I bought a thousand dollar remote control car from traxxas


cheers!

[Juiblex79]

Ok, one thing doesn't PC2700 Run at 333Mhz so FSB would be 166 not 150? Anyways I found some registered PC2100 CL2 memory.

So this is my SMP system

2xAthalon XP 1700+ Tbrid(2x$29=$58)
MSI K7D MAX, I didnt need the lan($178)
2xApacer PC2100(edit PC2400) Reg 512MB CL2(2x$99=$198)
Western Digital 200GB 8MBbuffer($184) + existing 20GB
Antec Ture Power 550($111)
2xSLK-800(2x$38=$76)

Total $805 with shipping, nice, saved almost $300 over my original P4. That could go to a sweet water cooling system instead of the fans.

[fernis]

look at my signature. You should be able to build my system with your budget. Kicks ass too.

[Molybdym]

That sounds like a winner, but. . .

The CPU's are $58/per
What's the cost difference betwix the PC2100 and the PC2700? With the later, you could easily run the timings lower, you may streach the 2100 at max FSB

[Juiblex79]

It's $58 for 2 cpus($29 each). Sorry for any confusion.

I was going to build a system very similar to what you have Fernis just with a 2.8C and a little faster Ram but I decided to get a SMP Athlon system and use the $300 I saved to get a watercooling system to get some insane speed, I am researching them now(Looking for something simple yet powerful since it will cool 2 CPUs). Thanks for the suggestion and nice system by the way.
Oh and about the RAM, my mistake its supposed to be PC2400(300Mhz) the motherboard(MSI K7D only supports PC2100(266Mhz) their isnt a SMP board out there that supports faster speeds for AMD as far as I know). So I dont see any need to go to PC2700(333Mhz) since I dont think I'll even get to 300Mhz with registered DDRAM.

[JimmyK]

First change I would make is get SK-7s isntead of 800s they perform very well and you can get 2 of them from svc.com for about 33 dollars BIG savings, the performance isncrease to the 800 not worth the extra 40 bucks.

secondly I would go with this memory, its proven to work for so many of us, I personally liek knowing 100% its gonna work and no problems because otehrs before me have used it.
http://www.isquaredinc.com/store/MEM...Mfeatures.html

its the same price actaully a bit cheaper then the oen your buying right now.

I always recommend getting 2 DIFFERENT smaller sized harddrives on independant channels. That makes a HUGE performance difference. For example all my temp folders and virtual memory are located on a different drive then my operating system and data folder, so everytime I decompress a zip file or when the OS uses virtual memory it is MUCH MUCH faster then having all of it on the same harddrive (using different partitions on teh same drive still is the same thing as having 1 drive performance wise), obviously because of independant channels so they can be accessed simultaneously to their fullest instead of one of them having to do both tasks and cuttings its performance in half almost literally.

[JimmyK]

oh yeah dont get that power supply go with the newegg one fortron 530, its cheaper and performs JSUT as well if not better, thats waht most of us SPM'ers use and its about 45 bucks cheaper as well.

do a search int he smp forum you'll see what I mean

cheers

IE bottom line

2xAthalon XP 1700+ Tbrid(2x$58=$116)
MSI K7D MAX, I didnt need the lan($178)
2xSamsung PC2700 Reg 512MB (2x$90=$180)
2x Western Digital 80GB 8MBbuffer(2x90=$180) + existing 20GB
Fortron 530($70)
2xSLK-800(2x$14.99=$30)

thats 754 total.

[Juiblex79]

Half of what I could spend this is great savings(Thanks AMD)

Since I am not going to be spending as much as I though for the system, I think I should do water cooling. I like the design of the Koolance EXOS(~$250) but the Thermaltake Aquarius II Water Cooling Kit(~$130) also seems good. Just need to find 2 good CPU water blocks and there are so many? Any suggestions?

[CaptainValor]

I've heard the Koolance Gold connectors are pretty nice. Expensive, though, at 40 bucks apiece. But they will give you the best heat transfer. If I had the money, and was starting from scratch, I would get myself one of Koolance's nice cases with the WC integrated. That way you don't have to buy longer tubes to go down thru yer PCI slot and back up to your CPUs (which is also less efficient). But that's just me.

[L337 M33P]

Don't go for kits, go for separate parts as you are more certain of their quality. For good performance get 2x D-tek WhiteWater blocks - they are excellent and not as expensive as dangerden etc etc. Start a thread in the Watercooling forum for lots of info

[Juiblex79]

Well I think thats about it here's the system I'll be getting...
Two Athlon XP 1700+ $58(29/per cpu)
MSI K7D Max (No LAN) $178
Two Samsung PC2700 512MB Reg CL2.5 $186(93/per modual)
Two WD 80GB 8MB 7200RPM $172(86/per drive)
Fortron P530XF530W $76

Two SLK-800 $72(36/per HS)
OR
Koolance Exos with 2 CPU Blocks $355(229Cooler, 53/per Block)

Total With Shipping:
Aircooled= $741
Watercooled= $1004

Going to read up in the watercooling fourm which would be better. I want to use the Koolance Exos over a compleatly costom kit because I want simplicity if I go the way of water and I would beable to put the external cool easily near the AC which is located right next to my computer(chilled water).

Thank you for all your advice, I can't wait to build this thing!

[L337 M33P]

Post lots of pics when you do